What is the BIG deal with The Bohemian Grove ??

Originally posted by forestlady
Thanks Kilgore. But do you have any other sources other than Wikipedia? I mean, anyone can add anything in there, it's not exactly the best reference for things.

Seek and you shall find: Scroll down half-way and watch the short docu-clip.

geoffrt.quotaless.com...

Years ago, and had this been in Europe the people who gathered here might have used coins similar to this one: i105.photobucket.com...

Did that one fly over your head also Redpill?

[edit on 14-4-2007 by sweftl337]

ForestLady

That is exactly the problem with these groups and in an ideal, uncorrupted world the benefit. It would be great if the good and the great all got together to work out how to make the world a better place. This may have been the groups original purpose, it may be what they actually do, but because it shrouds itself in secrecy we don't know and can only speculate. If they haven't got anything to hide, then why hide etc.

The name Bohemia is significant. Many of the high ranking members of the Grove are descended from the the Holy Roman Empire states in and around bohemia, this is why the Third Reich were so keen to annex it.

John of Nepomuk, former Bishop of is the Czech national saint. He was made a saint because he, in one version of the story, respected the confession of the Queen of Bohemia and did not divulge its content even under torture.

The other interpretation would be that as Elizabeth of Bohemia was the sister of the king of England James I, that she or John were protestant or catholic spies and that was why he was murdered, the church just covering it by martyrdom. Protestantism was new at this time but was quickly replacing the Catholics as the ear of government, it was also helping to create a new class of nobility. There is strong evidence of a very sophisticated espionage network from England throughout europe at this time. There are a number of versions of the story, this is just my preferred.

This is why I believe that Bohemian Grovers would have him as their saint as he represents Secrecy.

The protestant reformation usurped the Catholic churches power in europe and stripped them of their wealth and property. Effectively the King and not the Church became the conduit to god. The King then was more figure-head and needed the nobles to rule. The church had been responsible for taxes and administration of districts. A new nobility was created to fill the void.

Its worth looking at the history surrounding the Hapsburg dynasty to understand the mentalities that created the government of the US. Many protestant nobles sought out ownership in the 'new worlds' when they were prevented from doing so in their home countries. Many very prominent families in the US can trace their ancestry from this period of history and the emergence of free-enterprise.

I can provide some sources if you want them, but I can assure you that Bohemia is culturally significant to the people that attend the grove. As is mystic gnostism, it is very much ingrained in the areas encompassed by the Holy roman Empire as a source of renewed vigour in the Catholic Church following the reformation.

[edit on 14-4-2007 by KilgoreTrout]

The first protest or protestant church was in Prague, largest city of Bohemia, long before Martin Luther, it was at a time of great corruption in the church (we still have great corruption in the church but it was much more in your face hypocrisy at that time), there were 3 popes all fighting to be the best pope, and many of the preachers in the church were heavily involved in gambling and running brothels in Prague, so the people got disillusioned and started their own Protest Church, which lasted a while but the protest church was overrun and returned to the RC.

Originally posted by sweftl337

Did that one fly over your head also Redpill?

[edit on 14-4-2007 by sweftl337]

Nope, got it loud and clear. Years ago in Europe, Alex Jones joined the Illuminati and used a gold coins with an eye on it. Did I get that right?


Here is a direct link to your video

This is exactly the period that John of Nepomuk comes from. The nobles that had arisen from the reformation were pushed out or killed if they didn't run quick enough. We all know the Catholics don't mince words!

It was in this way that the noble class were able to exploit the protestant reformation for their own gain. They realised that the people preferred protestantism - it was an austere contrast to the opulence and ungodliness of the Catholic Church and the translation of the bible led to educational provisions for the working classes. Henry VIII had demonstrated that overthrowing the Catholics in favour of the King as head of the church was very lucrative. Cromwell sealed the bond. The noblities that were set up in ireland demonstrates the rapid expansion of wealth and the potatoe famines just one of its eventual ill-effects.

The opening up of the New World had offered up new opportunities and the noble class did not want to see it all go to the Catholics (and Spain). The non-Catholics used every means possible to establish trade routes and disrupt those of the Spanish who were the most fervent opposition to England. The protestants were effectively exiled to the US and started expansion from North to south, taking protestantism with them. The traders simply followed behind, milking the good relations established between settlers and natives, and through exploitation creating conflict.

When Britain tried to curtail this expansion the Anglo-American War was the culmination and the traders/merchant classes were free of British influence and able to exploit it all by themselves.

Originally posted by RedPill

Originally posted by sweftl337

Did that one fly over your head also Redpill?

[edit on 14-4-2007 by sweftl337]

Nope, got it loud and clear. Years ago in Europe, Alex Jones joined the Illuminati and used a gold coins with an eye on it. Did I get that right?


Here is a direct link to your video

Partly right but why would you mention the Illuminati (or the Martinists) when they are but only one branch? Did you notice the "Eye" and "IHS" symbol on the coin? Alex Jones along with ABC Ted Anderson over-charge for their Gold coins. And Alex Jones is also a Change-Agent who likes to spread fear and would switch sides in a second. Thus my tongue and cheek "Red Dawn".

To study history we must look close at everything. The 'Order' is of the Jesuits and the Bohemian Rituals are based upon Jesuit Rites. To show only the owl and not the Catholic Saint, what purpose could that serve to serious researchers other than to mislead?

People should be having a deep desire to know the truth - to dig deeper - and stop thinking so devorced from reality.

Thinking on what Golddragnet says and about the Catholic saint being concealed - it could be anti-catholic as likely as it is pro. I personally feel that they operate on traditions and that the ritual is more neitschesque in its usage - more bonding than of spiritual significance. You could theorise that the Cremation of Care symbolises that this is the only two weeks of the year when they put their 'burdens' of power aside and cease to care for their monetary and governance roles.

I don't personally hold too much stock in Alex Jones, but I do find him entertaining, he has passion at least. There are seeds of truth.Most high-pwered deals are conducted behind closed doors anyway, however it is whether they make deals and decisions which are to the detriment of the respective states or that favour priviledge over merit. And why no ladies....(other than the ones that pepper the rumours - which in themselves beg the question whether the Grove is used both to impress and to gather blackmail material for future use).

Originally posted by KilgoreTrout

Thinking on what Golddragnet says and about the Catholic saint being concealed - it could be anti-catholic as likely as it is pro.

Anything anti-Catholic winds up dead in politics and that included JFK who had a 'Modernist' form of Catholiksm that was too lenient toward the heretics. They poison many and supposed accidents happen (like Bill Colby) but why did they blow off his head in public? A warning to all other Catholics not to disobey.

I don't personally hold too much stock in Alex Jones, but I do find him entertaining, he has passion at least. There are seeds of truth.Most high-pwered deals are conducted behind closed doors anyway,

I'd be more than happy to get into this in more detail. There is a deeper occult reason here also. Alex Jones, go and check his articles out - that is fine - but do not listen to him ranting off much. I have much information about him which I cannot yet share at this time.

I'll tell you that he knows who is running the show and he enjoys the money very well. This man pretends to be a simple Christian using slogans like " God Bless you" etc. Do not be taken in by his passion and hype.

Originally posted by sweftl337
To study history we must look close at everything. The 'Order' is of the Jesuits and the Bohemian Rituals are based upon Jesuit Rites.

Do All Roads Lead to Rome!!!
Forward to 39th minute of this clip, Alberta Rivera, former Jesuit, murdered by Jesuits in 1997
video.google.com...

Leo Zagamis story
www.illuminaticonfessions.webfriend.it...

Originally posted by golddragnet

Forward to 39th minute of this clip, Alberta Rivera, former Jesuit, murdered by Jesuits in 1997

Rivera was never a Jesuit, nor was he murdered. The entire story was a hoax perpetrated by Rivera and supernutcase Jack Chick.

Alberto Rivera

Leo Zagamis story

Mr. Zagamis' bogus stories have been dealt with recently by myself and Cug. Do an ATS search.

Rivera was never a Jesuit, nor was he murdered. The entire story was a hoax perpetrated by Rivera and supernutcase Jack Chick.

You have some nerve to claim that it was all a hoax. That in itself is a bold-faced lie and I will call you to task for it. Please go ahead and prove it why don't you?

Secondly, most Freemasons going back not even a few hundred years in the past, were very much persecuted by the Jesuits as were various other orders and sects. Washington wanted nothing to do with the Vatican! All truth-tellers back then and now would be delighetd to see this kind of honest exposure reach the mainstream press but it never does today!

Your agenda here is another one altogether and I'd like everyone who I U2U'd to pay close attention to this part about how YOU take EVERY oppertunity to defend not only that loser wannibe mystic Crowley , but more importantly how you defend the very opposers (Jesuits) to what can be defined as true Freemasonry.

Mr. Zagamis' bogus stories have been dealt with recently by myself and Cug. Do an ATS search.

Funny how you should also mention Cug?

Of course, you expected this response from me as you are very crafty fellow . yes, indeed I would say that Masonic Light is what we call a very clever fellow. However, I am well aware which forces you serve and both you and Cug work well together I might add. You have been exposed by Tamahu and myself and others here as being deceivers of truth and devoid of the ability to understand the difference between the individual ego-soul development and your own petty little (time and space created) personailties which you so fashion as GODS.

For today, there are certainly those of the higher degrees who are both Jesuits and Freemasons. Two Satanic Jesuits who have proven nothing of the sort about Leo Zagami!

Let's see your evidence to prove his stories bogus?

Originally posted by sweftl337


You have some nerve to claim that it was all a hoax.

I'm not "claiming" it was a hoax...it is a documented fact. Although most reasonable knew it was BS from the beginning, it was Cornerstone Magazine, which is a Protestant publication by the way, who exposed the Rivera fraud once and for all.

Secondly, most Freemasons going back not even a few hundred years in the past, were very much persecuted by the Jesuits as were various other orders and sects. Washington wanted nothing to do with the Vatican! All truth-tellers back then and now would be delighetd to see this kind of honest exposure reach the mainstream press but it never does today!

I'm no big fan of the Vatican or the Jesuits either, but at least I have the integrity not to go around lying about them. The same cannot be said of the likes of Alberto Rivera and Jack Chick, although of course with them it wasn't just a matter of lying for the hell of it: they drew a commission from it.

Your agenda here is another one altogether and I'd like everyone who I U2U'd to pay close attention to this part about how YOU take EVERY oppertunity to defend not only that loser wannibe mystic Crowley , but more importantly how you defend the very opposers (Jesuits) to what can be defined as true Freemasonry.

I'm not interested in your U2U's, your views of Crowley or other writers, your weird notions about the Catholics, or what you think may or may not be "true Freemasonry". I'm interested in Denying Ignorance, and will continue to do so.

For today, there are certainly those of the higher degrees who are both Jesuits and Freemasons. Two Satanic Jesuits who have proven nothing of the sort about Leo Zagami!

Let's see your evidence to prove his stories bogus?

As I said, run a search. I'm not interested in doing your homework for you.

I'm not "claiming" it was a hoax...it is a documented fact.

Although most reasonable knew it was BS from the beginning, it was Cornerstone Magazine, which is a Protestant publication by the way, who exposed the Rivera fraud once and for all.

You "claimed" that Alberto Rivera was not murdered? Why would you say this unless you were worried that this FACT might be brought up? Do you expect us to all believe that his poisoning was accidental?

You "claimed" that he was never a Jesuit Priest and do nothing to prove this.

Now you make a claim that "most responsible knew it was BS" which is in fact another lie. Pleaee do not insult us with junk Fox News-like terminology because it insults the majority of researchers who DO NOT think it was BS. You even have the nerve to say its' not your claim but it's the claim of a so-called Protestant publication to try and prove your case. How low can one go?

Since you did not take the time necessary to investigate this group called the Jesus Movement and that ridiculous paper who had supported personalities like Billy Graham and others en.wikipedia.org... then, YES YOU DID "claim" it was a hoax. One source from Wiki is the best you can do? Plus you seem to have failed to take any notice (as a good deciever would do) of the fact that Chick Publishing does not speak on behalf of Alberto Rivera's confessions. Also Alberto Rivera's son, (Jr) has been in discord with Chick over many issues. If you are going to use such piss poor research, be prepared to take the gloves off and stop being such a little coward who is not even willing to support his own intentions. Be a man Masonic Light and admit that you have a great deal of bias against Christians and you said it yourself before that " you would not have joined Freemasonry if it was Christian", which makes me laugh considering what I know about King James himself being a Protestant Templar-Freemason.

I'm no big fan of the Vatican or the Jesuits either, but at least I have the integrity not to go around lying about them. The same cannot be said of the likes of Alberto Rivera and Jack Chick, although of course with them it wasn't just a matter of lying for the hell of it: they drew a commission from it.

So what does that mean " I'm no big fan of the Vatican"? Why don't you just tell us how you really feel? And there you are again putting Rivera together with Jack Chick and ignoring all the truth that Rivera brought forward, and EVEN the fact that Rivera was MURDERED via the Cup of Borgia for telling the truth. You hate Chick and yet support the Jesuit-controlled Protestant and falsly rapture believing hippy "Jesus Movement".

I'm interested in Denying Ignorance, and will continue to do so.

You're interested in promoting your Master Agenda and that is known based on your writing. The very the reason why you overlook proper research and attempt to poo-pooh all you can that does not fit well into your slant, and the reason why you will not give both sides, is that you display the form of dangerous materialism and a very pessimistic attitude that akin to graduates of the Jesuit Georgetown University.

As I said, run a search. I'm not interested in doing your homework for you.

I've done my homework and I still invite you to prove your claims.


[edit on 14-4-2007 by sweftl337]

Sweft this is what Masonic Light does. Hijacks thread. He's a complete moron that likes to swear when he gets backed in corner. This board sucks anyway The moderators on here suck also Just keep exposing these phallic lovers for what they are. And Mirtful Me, you are the biggest idiot moderator on this board next too Nygan Is it really any shock coming from a guy who likes being half naked infornt of other men

Originally posted by Andy Warhol
Sweft this is what Masonic Light does. Hijacks thread. He's a complete moron that likes to swear when he gets backed in corner. This board sucks anyway

The moderators on here suck also

Just keep exposing these phallic lovers for what they are.

And Mirtful Me, you are the biggest idiot moderator on this board next too Nygan

Is it really any shock coming from a guy who likes being half naked infornt of other men

I find your obsession with naked men and phalluses quite telling. What is it with all these anti-Masons and their obsession with speculating that all secret societies like penis symbols and nudity?

What would Freud have to say anyway?

Just a bunch of rich priviledged men having a gay old time.



Ohhh, and plotting to kill us while putting down abortion. I cant figure it out. They want us to think we are being protected when in fact they want us dead.
HUH?

Originally posted by sweftl337
Be a man Masonic Light and admit that you have a great deal of bias against Christians

I'm not biased against Christians. I'm just biased against idiots.

The agenda is quite simple its a place for them to hang out and shoot the #, talk about capitail gain on a grandular scale, its a good place to have meetings about globalization, the lakeside talks is what i would be most concerned about.

Lakeside Talks
Entertainment is not the only activity at the Bohemian Grove. For a little change of pace, there is intellectual stimulation and political enlightenment every day at 12:30 p.m. Since 1932 the meadow from which people view the Cremation of Care also has been the setting for informal talks and briefings by people as varied as entertainers, professors, astronauts, business leaders, cabinet officers, future presidents, and former presidents...continues sociology.ucsc.edu

The Grove is guarded by secret service police, the people that go there claim to be christians, followers of the lord jesus christ but yet decieptfully they have mock ceremonies where they seek info from a giant cannite deity named moloch and then use the eternal flame to burn the effigy of a human being ?


the members there talk about the same things bilderbergers talk about at their secret meetings, they have a 1000 year old ceremony they preform there for a god named Moloch that they burn an

effigy - A crude figure or dummy representing a hated person or group.

with an eternal flame that burns forever it is called the Cremation of Care, but on the other hand these people such as george walker bush claim to be loving christians and church going people but yet they worship an old cannite deity in so called mock theater like ceremonies like come on this is deemed reasonable and normal to your society?

The only Big Deal about the grove is that It is now possible to see real life proof of decietful people, and the bad part is that some people let these individuals rule their fates.

You'll live your entire lives never knowing how you've been had. It is what
sheep do.

mod edit: link

Mod Edit: Quoting Etiquette – Please Review This Link.


[edit on 17-4-2007 by sanctum]

Originally posted by sweftl337
You have some nerve to claim that it was all a hoax. That in itself is a bold-faced lie and I will call you to task for it. Please go ahead and prove it why don't you?
Let's see your evidence to prove his stories bogus?

I think most people will see through posters like Masonic Light very quickly. It is often pointless to try to debate with such people. Every forum has WUMs and numpties.

Originally posted by golddragnet


I think most people will see through posters like Masonic Light very quickly. It is often pointless to try to debate with such people. Every forum has WUMs and numpties.

Gee, I hope you're right. Now screw that tin-foil on tight, pilgrim...wouldn't wanna see your brain get warped by those bad old Jesuit gamma rays.



In reality, I think most people see through you guys rather quickly. If you'd like to contest what the members here think of me, contrasting with you, Warhol, and sweftboy, I'd be happy to see a poll.

[edit on 15-4-2007 by Masonic Light]