well i have been thinking long and hard and i have come to the conclusion that religion is something made up by man.
all religions have something in common: someone who is perfect in which they parise
it is ovious that the human beign needs someone or something to pray to when they are in need
humans need someome higher in rank to put control
and so they started forming what we now know as religion
something that you believe with out seeing because we need order
we have put this picture in our minds
the bible was not written by god
it was written by people who said that god had spoken to them
i may be wrong but i think that the goverment uses religion to their advantage
well... see they need to have order in their country and if the people won't listen to the guards they will listen to the mighty god
i mean look at the taliban they say that is their god that is telling them that it's right to kill the enemy

never the less, i do think that there is something after we die i just don't know what and neither does any of you.
i know alot of people is going to disagree with me but i just had to post this because to be honest with you i am really confused .........

I do know where I'll be going; there is no doubt in my mind. I'm sorry you don't. It seems the government is more interested in removing my God from any mention, or have you missed this trend that has been going on for around 40 years? True, the taliban is evil, Jim Jones was a suicidal fuitcake and David Koresch was a freak that needed a shrink in the worst of ways, but that doesn't mean there isn't a God. It is evident that you are confused and this collection of timeless notions you have reprinted here indicate that you've just about gave up looking. I'll suggest this, though, if you are earnestly searching, this is not the place to look. All this forum is good for is back-biting and bickering.

Oiy, don't be so hard on the girl She like most of us have not lived in a world that is large and incomprehensible. 1000 years ago or even 300 years ago atheism would have been inconcievable. Why?

Because ironically, back then their lack of understanding of how the universe worked, allowed them to see how they were connected to the universe.

We can't live without the winds and the rivers and the mountains, if this world were a flat ball with no geologic activity we'd be on Mars.

This is a very important thing to realize because as I read what bluegrl wrote, I see the prevalence that is in so many, that this universe is NOT incredibly complicated.

It is like this, the lay-scientist has enough knowledge to understand that there is no god, but not to understand that ther IS a god. The primative human NEEDS a religion to explain WHY this universe is SO emence. Has anyone tried to live under the stars for once? No street lights, no house lights, just stars and when you go to bed it is so dark you can't see your hand, but if you take it to the sky you can see your sillouhette clearly against the milky way. Very amazing, too amazing for the primative, that is why God or Gods/Goddess were created, to explain this emensity.

But as we became more scientific, and technological, we understood more of what really it was we were looking at, it is this type of lay-science that allows us to NOT believe in a creative force or organizing force or GOD. This idea is confused usually to be the same as Religion, it is not.

Religion was created by man, but the searching for that "force" god was not, it IS man, our lives are fixated around it, so much that everyone has a "religious" center to the brain, and the less they have of it the more animal-like they are in that they live purely for the moment, hand to mouth.

If you go higher up into the high sciences, you begin to see HOW there HAS to be a God. The organization is TOO much.

So...with the understanding of how science has helped changed our perspectives of our own existance and purpose. Let us look at how this has altered our ability to comprehend the difference between religion and god.

When someone is saying religion was created by man, they are correct, but when one says that religion is a control factor. A "command" structure, they are most wrong. Ecclesiastical religions sort of became that, but even if there was no Christianity Islam Judaism or Hindu, there would still be Religion, man needs to explore PURPOSE, that is God. It is impossible, to go out under the stars, look at saturn the size of a dime, and say THERE IS NO GOD. Atheists will disagree with me but they don't understand what god is. It is not a big finger pointing and creating, it is PURPOSE.

Nothingness is the natural state of everything, so why is there anything?

Humans do not need something to pray to when they are in need, I've never payed, and never will. Humans just need purpose, whether it is continued existance or whatever.

Religion is ironically our freedom, as long as it doesn't become a control factor. The US's freedoms stem almost entirely from our Freedom of Religion, because that sums up ALL other Freedoms.

You note the taliban, using religion as control, that's one extreme, but governments don't need religion, look at the Soviet Union, there the government WAS religion.

And I know what's after we die, the bare minimums anyways.

As I've tried to argue before, but failed because it takes better discussion than is available here. The bare minimums of this life require a few things.

Existance, and continued existance. When we die we are at LEAST reincarnated. There might be a heaven and hell, but I doubt it very much, but there has to be at LEAST reincarnation.

There can be several varients to that, but at the VERY least, you never "cease" to exist. Although through logic I've determined existance and Individuality to be two different things.

We may not be able to find out how things REALLY are, but we can figure out how things aren't, and I and MANY other people have done this, most don't even realize it. Sit down, reflect on your life, and this universe, and just think for once.

I had the BENIFIT (atheists are going to hate this) To sit down for 10 plus years as an Atheist to figure out WHAT this universe needs to be here, and for us to be here.

Everyone can do it, and they do, usually they are different interpretations, but in the end it is summed up with some form of continued existance, because, as I tried to tell that James guy (not james the lesser) without continued existance, or some form of memory of now, forever, this never happend. And we would not be living now.

You alread "know" what will happen to us after we die, it is that "something after we die" belief. Through physics we have discovered the universe WITHOUT the aid of complete experimentation, it is logic. With logic you can figure out the bare minimums. Through reason NO ONE can deny that we are at least reborn or concious after death. I prefer the reborn because it is cyclical and everything else in this universe is cyclical.

Sincerely,
no signature

I find it kind of amusing that the people who cry about how their religion is being suppressed are the same ones who would absolutly SCREAM if I tried putting up the Wiccan Crede in the halls of justice.

Or doing a Wiccan prayer (to the god and goddess) at a football game.

Or having Muslim verses or prayers to Allah read over the public announcement system at school.

And I haven't seen anyone throw things at Christians who are simply walking around, keeping their mouths shut. I have seen strangers attack (verbally and physicall) someone wearing a simple Wiccan pentagram (within the past 5 years.)

No... I'd like the rest of the world religions to have the same rights here in America as the Christians do. I'd like to hear a Muslim prayer before a football game. I'd like to hear a Buddhist prayer (instead of a Christian one) opening a council meeting. And just for once, I'd like to hear a Jewish religious song get the same kind of screaming applause that some of the "Jesus and Country" songs get.

Christians are still "more equal" than the rest of us.

byrd
this is because simply there are more Christians here in the US than any other religion so people try to do what will please the public more and since they are the majority hey let's please them.
that's how they look at it
and i see your point
i agree

Blugrl, it's my opinion that religion has screwed up people's faith; Organized religion wants you to have faith in the *organization* & the people who run it...When I'd prefer to keep my faith in God.

Anyone who holds a position in a religious heirarchy is, in effect, placing themselves in an intermediary-position between you & God. As far as Christian scriptures go, Jesus is the only intermediary between you & God, but the *religious institution* itself wants to place itself between you & Him...

Granted, organized religions *do* perform a lot of good by acting as a charity for the needy...But there are very *few* religions that promote peace that haven't earned a bloody history for themselves.

Although I may not be as well versed as some here, this is just my own point of view. It was mentioned earlier about existance being forever. I agree with that, simply because I wouldn't know how to disagree with it. Can you imagine not being? I can't. In whatever shape, form or energy. Aside from that - I try to keep everyone else (ideas and opinions included) out of my own relationship with whom I consider to be my God and my relationship with Him. This is by no means to say that other's points are any more or less valid or valuable. "To each his own." I was born, baptised and raised Catholic and succeeded in appalling most of my family to actually leave the Catholic church. I'm sure I've been punished by them more than God would think of punishing me Himself. I don't care to try to squeeze my relationship with my God into the confinements and guidlelines of another human being. I take "freedom of religion" all the way. I am free to belief and conduct my belief how I choose/ feel. On the Catholosism note - I find it totally ridiculous that I should have to confess my sins to a man! God knows as well as I do what I've done. It's my job to be responsible for it and His to forgive - what exactly is the job description of the "middle man?" Just one example of why my relationship with God is mine - on our terms only. I won't use the word "religion" except to say that I really don't have one. I just have a relationship.
Again, these are just my thoughts, opinions - which are not facts. Thanks