Imus is NOT the issue!!!! This may offend you!

This whole Don Imus thing has gotten way out of hand. People are throwing their hands up in a rage over something ridiculous. His comments are not the real issue here people!

Now, first of all, let me say I did not agree with what Imus said, and I don't think it is appropriate to make those kinds of comments.

Let's begin by looking at what he said. I won't repeat it here but I am sure you have all heard or read his comments. The first thing I thought of when I heard his remarks was, "Well, where did he get those words?" Obviously he got the "hateful" words he used from the black community. Now here was my next thought. If it offends the black community so much to hear those words and phrases, why do they use them to each other? I believe the answer to that lies in the words of Reverend Flake, a prominent black leader in New York. To paraphrase, Rev. Flake said that the black community continues to hold itself down based on age old stereotypes that no longer are relevant in America today.

Now, don't take this to mean that there is no longer an racism or profiling in America, because believe me, there is. This means that the black community as a whole tends to look at itself as a repressed society, and a community that still can't acheive what they want in life because of their skin color. It's for this reason that you get people like Barack Obama being condemned by the black community for "not being black enough".

The purpose of all this is point out that perhaps instead of focusing on the remarks of a crochety old white man, we should be looking at the REAL issues in black America today. It always seems that we, as a whole, pick the wrong battles to fight.

Maybe instead of arguing over who said this and protesting to have an old man taken off the air, we should be protesting the fact that the majority of the population of U.S. prisons are black males. Perhaps instead of being outraged over this old mans comments, we should be outraged that the black community has some of the lowest education rates in the country. Why does what this man said make the black community so angry, but the fact that black communities have some of the highest crimes rates in the country not?

What is wrong with us as a nation where we decide to fight against peoples words, but not their actions?

I think we should all take this time to step back and think about what the REAL issues in this country are. Don Imus is not the problem with the black community. The black community is it's own problem.

Does anyone have anything to say about this?

I think the lack of discussion about this proves my point that we choose the wrong things to discuss most times.

Originally posted by nyk537
If it offends the black community so much to hear those words and phrases, why do they use them to each other?

Good question. Double standard perhaps??

My position - Imus is a vile pig. He's an equal opportunity offender. I'm glad MSNBC FINALLY got rid of him in the mornings. I would also like to see public pressure put on the disgusting rap songs and videos on TV that portay women in such demeaning and disgusting roles.

I wouldn't violate free speech rights .. but at the same time we have a right to boycott products that sponsor trash.

edited to add -

Originally posted by nyk537
I think the lack of discussion about this proves my point that we choose the wrong things to discuss most times.

There are a few other threads about IMUS going on. The one about 'Imus on his knees begging' has discussed this a bunch ...



[edit on 4/12/2007 by FlyersFan]

What's good for the goose is good for the gander. If blacks don't want to hear these expressions, culled from their own culture and their own lips, then they should stop using them.

Until then, every word they utter is fair game.

Originally posted by Tea
What's good for the goose is good for the gander. If blacks don't want to hear these expressions, culled from their own culture and their own lips, then they should stop using them.

Until then, every word they utter is fair game.

+1. Anyone ever listen to stations that play rap? How many songs use the word n*gga, or -er, or w/e form they choose to use? Kanye, 50 Cent, Snoop, whoever. Do the radio stations ban the playing of their songs? I think not.

I think this is bupkis. I've heard Imus from time to time, and yes though he can be vile, I've gotten many a laughs from his show. His show has been raunchy from time to time, and he frequently goes out of his way to offend many people. If you can't handle it, don't listen to the show. I'm sure there are plenty of loyal listeners who like to see the show stay on the air.

Seem that stars are being penalized more heavily these days when they say something that offends a certain group of people. What I'd like to see is justice for these idiotic rich bimbos like Paris Hilton who have commited several hit and runs and DUIs and are still fine.

Ok, I'll bite. But I'm not clear on a few of your statements. Are you pulling your punches?

For example, you say:

This means that the black community as a whole tends to look at itself as a repressed society, and a community that still can't acheive what they want in life because of their skin color. It's for this reason that you get people like Barack Obama being condemned by the black community for "not being black enough".

Do you mean the black community feels that it -- and Obama -- would 'achieve what they want in life' if they were all darker skinned?

Re: education: WHY should we be outraged that the black community has some of the lowest education rates in the country?

Are you saying blacks aren't provided adequate education?

Or do you mean that blacks fail to do justice to the education and opportunities provided them?

And do you believe " ...we should be protesting the fact that the majority of the population of U.S. prisons are black males" because blacks are unfairly jailed?

Or do you mean we should be disgusted by blacks' refusal to comply with the dictates of law and order?

When you say: ' Why does what this man said make the black community so angry, but the fact that black communities have some of the highest crimes rates in the country not?' ....... do you mean that black communities should feel victimised by the fact blacks are disproportionately represented in crime figures?

Or do you mean that blacks should feel ashamed of the fact so many of them commit crimes?

I agree with the OP.

I'm so sick of hearing the slurs come out of their own mouths, but heavens forbid a different race or religion says it. I must say that was not the right time to make the comment. This is a job he does on a daily basis so it would be easy for his normal lingo to come out by mistake. This is a perfect example of how live broadcast needs a longer delay to cover the mistakes quickly enough. This reminds me of what happened to Howard Stern, but what is different about this is that Howard was not the one that made the comment that ultimately got him fired.

For crying out loud listen to the music that is freely played on our radio stations! I hear 9 year olds blurt out what Imus said like its just normal everyday speech! Who put these words in the little ones mouths? Oh, lets not blame the parents for turning on the dang radio!! I believe in free speech yes, but when it comes to a slapping match I have no time for it. Now, I am getting mad so I will just hush up before I say something to get me booted on here

I agree with what all of you are saying. The way I see it, if Imus has to go, so should BET. No questions.

Originally posted by Dock6
Ok, I'll bite. But I'm not clear on a few of your statements. Are you pulling your punches?

No.

Do you mean the black community feels that it -- and Obama -- would 'achieve what they want in life' if they were all darker skinned?

This has nothing to do with skin color. They say that because he doesn't "act" black enough. He doesn't use the offensive words and act like he stepped out of a rap video. So they say he isn't black enough.

WHY should we be outraged that the black community has some of the lowest education rates in the country?

Are you saying blacks aren't provided adequate education?

No, I'm saying they don't take advantage of the educational opportunities they are given. Then they complain about it.

And do you believe " ...we should be protesting the fact that the majority of the population of U.S. prisons are black males" because blacks are unfairly jailed?

No, they aren't unfairly jailed. They are jailed because they commit more crimes than any other group.

When did the word n*gger become offensive?

Why is 'blacks' deemed more appropriate?

'They' used to be described as 'African Americans'.

Why was this replaced by 'blacks'?

'N*gger' is clearly an adaptation of 'Nigra' which in turn is a shortened or colloquialism for the proper and correct term 'Negro'.

Is 'black' not more offensive than 'Negro' or 'Nigra' or 'N*gger' ?

Every group or race is called something by other groups and races. For example, the English used to be called 'Limeys' by people from the US. We don't see the English whining about it.

Australians are known as 'Aussies' by virtually everyone on the planet, except Bush, who refers to them as 'Kangaroo humping losers ' or words to that effect. No media hysteria there.

In the past few years, Bush has labeled Iraqis as 'terrorists' and 'evil doers' amongst other things and I used to regularly see Americans refer to Iraqis as 'rag heads' and 'towel heads'. No media outrage there, either.

Australians refer to people from the UK as 'Poms', 'Pommies' and 'Pommie bastards'. The Australian government decreed this was not derogatory but merely, ' a term of endearment'.

Examples of nicknames and derogatory terms used by various groups to describe those of other groups could fill pages.

So it's puzzling as to why Negroes and those of Negro extraction who live in the US should make such an issue about it, continually, to the point of hysteria ... when someone who is NOT a Negro refers to Negroes as N*ggers.

It's particularly puzzling when it's a fact that US Negroes refer to EACH OTHER as 'N*ggers'.

When Negroes cease referring to themselves as N*ggers --- then the rest of the world may feel like following suit.

I haven't read all the replies, but I'd like to point out that it isn't exclusively black people who use these words, it's the rap industry. There are plenty of black people who don't approve of the words used by many rappers.

And to go a bit further, not even all rappers use these words. We can't rightly hold an entire race responsible for the actions of a very few of them (plus some white rappers thrown in.)

Secondly, many black people are upset, yes, but many white people are as well. How can we pare this down to a racial issue when black and white people use the offensive words and black and white people are upset about it?

Be more careful, please. Talk like this just causes division.

In my opinion, this is a freedom of speech issue. If rappers can say it, Imus should be allowed to say it. It's a double standard, as FF pointed out, but it's not a black/white thing.

Following on from my above post, I'll add that I feel the term 'black' *IS* extremely divisive, hence my queries regarding the commencement of the term 'black' to replace the proper and correct term of Negro.

Many of those of Negro extraction are not 'black' at all: they range from cafe au lait to deep brown and every shade between.

Somewhere along the line, someone of influence convinced Americans of all shades that the term 'black' as applied to Negroes was 'kinder' than the correct 'Negro'.

But that person or group of person did *not* have the welfare of Negroes in mind.

Instead, the intent was to highlight a very basic difference between Negroes and the rest of the population --- that of skin colour.

We were raised hearing the old adage: ' As different as black and white'.

In movies, the 'good' cowboys wore white hats whilst the 'bad' ones wore black hats.

Another adage: ' Black as sin'.

And: ' Black hatred', meaning so filled with hate he/she seemed surrounded by a black, evil aura.

Again, examples of 'black' standing for evil and 'badness' as opposed to 'white' exemplifying 'goodness' and 'innocence' would fill pages. 'Black' is commonly used in negative sense.

It was not an accident that the term 'black' was foisted upon populations as a description for Negroes. It was intended to split people along colour lines. It was used to differentiate between Negroes and 'the rest'. It was deliberate. And it posed as a nicer, 'better', 'kinder' way than the correct term of Negro -- which over time had become 'Nigra', hence: 'N*gger'.

There's nothing wrong with the word 'Negro'. It bestows pride and recognition on a distinct racial type.

The word 'Negro' does not derogate. It does not diminish. It does *NOT* throw the focus on something as trivial as skin colour.

When people said 'Oh, he's a very capable/handsome/decent Negro man', people knew exactly what was meant. It meant that man was not Italian or Greek or Irish. And that's *ALL* it meant. And Negroes were not ashamed to be termed 'Negroes', because that's exactly what they were and they were proud of that.

Negro/Nigra/N*gger were then replaced by the colour-specific term: 'black'.

What pride in one's origin is bestowed when someone calls a Negro a 'black' ?

This naturally led to the opposing term for NON-Negroes ---- 'white'.

There you have it. People deliberately split along COLOUR lines: black and white. Night and Day. Good and Bad.

But in ORDER to foist this abomination of divisiveness onto ALL of us --- the slimes who devised this plot 'very cleverly' disguised the re-naming of Negroes as 'blacks' as a good thing.

We KNOW this. We ALL know this.

So WHY are we complying with it?

Negroes AND non-Negroes should think BEYOND this scheme and scam and REFUSE to be manipulated.

Because ---- I think you'll find the situation has deteriorated FOR Negroes ever since they co-operated with the scum who labeled them as 'blacks' and decreed that THIS should be their 'label'.

This columnist in KC nails it:

www.kansascity.com...

He's with the OP in a very personal and salient way.

Thank you, Don Imus. You’ve given us (black people) an excuse to avoid our real problem.

You’ve given Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson another opportunity to pretend that the old fight, which is now the safe and lucrative fight, is still the most important fight in our push for true economic and social equality.

You have voted nyk537 for the Way Above Top Secret award.

Personally I could care less what Imus said. If you don't agree with him then don't listen to him. Enough people do that then his ratings fall and he is out of work. What bothers me is this entire double standard. A Black can call a White anything they want with no reprocussions, if the opposite happens it is an international media event.

As far as the Rutgers team goes has anybody noticed that there are a few White girls on that team? Imus didn't single out the Blacks on the team, he referred to the entire team.

I honestly have to ask if people like Al Sharpton, Jessie Jackson and others who proclaim themselves leaders of the Black community, don't do more harm than good. Think about this a minute. If there isn't conflict between the races their power base goes away. I have to question their goals. What do they consider as success? If you listen their comments about people like Colin Powell, Condi Rice, Bill Cosby and others like them, you have to ask that question too.

In case it isn't obvious, I'm White. I was born way too late for slavery, I was too young to have anything to do with the Civil Rights movement of the 60's and was raised to only know people not color. If you think I'm full of it, all you have to do is ask my Godson, he's Black.

What does it really matter if he says it, or even thinks that way? It doesn't, its not you so leave the guy alone. If youre offended don't listen to him. The way people act is how hate speech laws come into place.

The scum who re-named Negroes as 'blacks', used a tried and successful technique: that of repeating something over and over until it is accepted as 'true'.

This was the philosophy behind Bush's repeatedly informing us that 'terrorists' were responsible for 9/11 -- also that 'Saddam' (and by virtue of association ALL Iraqis) were 'terrorists' and 'evil doers' who were party to 'The Axis of Evil'.

In those first days after 9/11, when people were so emotional and affected, we heard repeatedly about 'Axis of Evil', 'evil doers', 'terrorists'.

Now, those who devised this 'repeat it often enough and the sheep will accept is as true' technique ALSO knew that messages slip past the mental censors when individuals are emotional and under stress.

In short --- brain washing.

And there are swathes of folk out there right now who are under the influence of the brain-washing techniques to which they were subjected in the hours and days after 9/11. They believe that Iraqis are 'evil' and are 'terrorists' who threaten the populations of the United States.

Some people are more susceptible to brain-washing techniques than others.

Others are able to regain their equilibrium and take control of their thoughts: are able to once again 'think for themselves'.

The *SAME* brain-washing techniques have been used regarding Negroes.

Negroes did *NOT* always fill US jails.

Negroes did *NOT* always use rap as a weapon both against themselves and non-Negro populations.

Negroes were *NOT* always so angry both towards themselves and non-Negro members of the community.

Negroes were *NOT* always heavily involved in drugs, crime, violence, self-hatred, hatred and resentment generally.

And not *ALL* Negroes today are typical of those portrayed on tv and in movies and the media generally.

The lying, fork-tongued scum (including whore media and paid 'politicians' etc.) who PRETEND to 'defend' Negroes are the very ones who are portraying Negroes generally as 'useless' 'welfare' burdens on society.

The scum plotters CLAIM to support the 'black' cause, but what they are REALLY intent on doing is creating divisions and then widening them.

The scum want racial tension and racial disharmony and irreparable divisions between Negro and non-Negro populations.

But as always, the scum LIE about their agenda.

When they bestowed the label of 'black' (meaning 'negative') upon Negroes, they knew that a picture tells a thousand words.

They KNEW that each time people hear the word 'black', they associate it with negativity. 'Black' is *not* regarded as a 'good' thing or as a 'positive'. Villains are always shown dressed in black. Think Jack Palance in 'Shane'. Think Dracula. Think monsters. Think death. Think 'bad'. Think 'evil'.

In short, when Negroes allowed themselves to be described as 'black', they doomed themselves to the role of 'negative influences', of 'bad people', of 'evil people', etc.

Instead of 'black' --- seeing the scum were so keen to inflict 'colour roles' on differing sectors of societies -- why didn't they instead use the more practical colour 'brown' ?

'Brown' is NOT associated with 'evil' and 'bad' and 'death'.

No. 'Brown' is associated in people's minds with 'warmth', with 'comfort', with 'security', with 'class and style', with 'chocolate', with 'coffee' ---- in other words, 'brown' is associated with NICE things. 'Brown' is a POSITIVE colour.

And Negroes are FAR more 'brown' than 'black'.

*IF* populations had been instructed to call Negroes 'brown' --- then the world would be a far happier more harmonious place today.

I can't understand WHY Negro leaders have not known this and REFUSED the label of 'black'.

And I STILL can't understand why everyone has obeyed the nonsensical, divisive demand to call Negroes ANY 'colour' at all !

WHERE were the wise heads when all this was going down?

WHY didn't people of ALL shades stand up and scream that they would *NOT* call Negroes ANY colour and would CONTINUE -- if they felt they had to mention the fact at all -- to describe Negroes as simply that .... Negroes ?

I'm glad to see this is getting some discussion now. This is what needs to happen for problems like this to be resolved. People need to sit down and discuss things, rather than shout back and forth at each other.

I'd also like to point out that this is not a black/white issue. This is an issue about double standards and age old stereotypes. As I said before, if they can use these words, so can we. And if they feel that Imus must go, then I feel that BET, and MTV must go as well. All this bickering between races gets us nowhere.

Originally posted by Dock6
Following on from my above post, I'll add that I feel the term 'black' *IS* extremely divisive, hence my queries regarding the commencement of the term 'black' to replace the proper and correct term of Negro.

Many of those of Negro extraction are not 'black' at all: they range from cafe au lait to deep brown and every shade between.

Somewhere along the line, someone of influence convinced Americans of all shades that the term 'black' as applied to Negroes was 'kinder' than the correct 'Negro'.

But that person or group of person did *not* have the welfare of Negroes in mind.

Dock, the term "black" came into usage in the '60's. It actually was started by the black community because they felt that it gave them a sense of pride in being black. They used terms like "black pride" and "black power". Black Power of course was misinterpreted by whites as meaning that blacks wanted to take over and destroy all whites. While there may have been a few blacks that thought that way, black power really meant something more like black empowerment because the black community felt so disempowered. Malcolm X talks about black pride in his autobiography. I don't know if that's where the term came from or not, but it did come from the black community - I rememeber when they were trying to get whites to use black instead of Negro. African American didn't start to be used until I think the 1990's.
Just a bit of history from an old lady (myself) who was there and remembers.

Ive been watching the news the last couple hours. Seems that Al Sharpton
is now allowed to dictate what is or is not acceptable (to him) for broadcast .
Free speech is a right in this country, unless Al doesnt approve, is that it?
As for Imus, I agree with the "if you dont like him, dont listen to him" view.

Another adage: ' Call a dog a bad name and it will live up to that name'.

Self-fulfilling prophecies, as in: ' Come in out of that rain, Johnny, or you'll catch a cold'. And no surprise to hear Johnny coughing later that night.

Now it's the same thing when you stick a negative label -- a recognised, age old negative label --- that of 'black' ... on an entire sector of a community.

Black is the colour of death, of evil, of fear, world wide.

When Negroes were labeled 'black' they were, in effect, being labelled as 'evil', as 'death', as 'bad', as 'wrong', as 'no good', as 'monsters', etc.

No WONDER Negroes have been losing ground ever since.

No WONDER they have such a low opinion of themselves !

No WONDER they are fulfilling the role of 'bad guys', 'evil guys' !

They are exemplifying self fulfilling prophecy.

It is WRONG and EVIL to refer to Negroes as 'blacks'.

Every time we use that word in connection with Negroes, we are strengthening these false perceptions.

We should make up our minds, here and now, that we will NOT refer to Negroes as 'blacks'.

When we CEASE using that term, we will effectively be HEALING Negroes' devastated self-image and their pain and despair --- and we will be HEALING the deliberately-created divisions between all of us.

We do NOT have to comply with the evil agenda of the war-and-fear-mongers.

No. We don't.

We can each of us make up our minds that we are NOT going to perpetuate the same old divisions that have been used to destroy us all through history.

The healing will not happen overnight. But it can begin here. And by assisting this healing in Negroes, we will be healing ourselves and sweeping away the ignorance and fear we carry.

Negroes are *NOT* 'black'. It's an abomination to label them thus.

Let's help put the dignity and hope back into Negro communities and at the same time, we'll be delivering a well-earned slap in the face to the monsters who have worked so hard to divide our societies.