Billy Meier UFO Contact Hoax: Discussion

reply to post by derekcbart


You will have to tell me your criteria on how you decide what is a postdiction and what is a prediction, because so far it looks to me as if you're choosing them arbitarily.

It looks like you've accepted the 251st contact, as you accept the Lyons prediction. You say this is vague, Nostradamus-vague, but I don't think it is vague at all but quite specific. I will extract the most specific predictions out of the contact which range from the short term future to the long term future.

On a broader scale, expect a coup involving the USA and its president, in the year 2003, in march, which will stun the entire world. Additionally, lengthy deliberations will increasingly take place regarding Islamic fundamentalism, which will mesmerize the entire globe. Uprisings, revolutions, wars and other diverse forms of unrest will escalate tremendously, with Islamic fundamentalism playing a very sad part in the scenario.

first steps will be taken for a flight to Mars, but will not be blessed with good fortune. However, the next flight, which ensues very soon, will have better luck although it will encounter certain difficulties due to unexpected technical problems.

The world war will begin in November of a specific year, after 5 years of intensive effort are spent reaching this goal which is preceded by 4 years of unspecified preparations. Should war actually break out, it will last for 3 years and 11 months and will therefore end in October of the fourth year. By this time, Earth's northern hemisphere will be largely destroyed by nuclear fires and radioactive radiation that will annihilate the entire animal and plant world unless Man sees to it that the prophecy proves itself to be just a prophecy without fulfilling itself. Should this not be the case, the world will face some additional 11 bitter years of poverty, misery, starvation and many other ills. The nuclear radiation will cause the crippling and mutation of the children born at that time, and multitudes who survive the war will be contaminated and burned by radiation. Chemical warfare will cause horrifying and atrocious skin diseases, and biological warfare will produce festering sores and many other ills, not to mention vicious human freaks, etc.

With the melting of the polar caps there also looms for Earth in the not-too-distant future another severe economic crisis that will spread throughout the globe. And another global war, World War IV, will once again threaten this planet and its entire terrestrial population because of their own unreason. However, several reasonable individuals are able to neutralize the threat, which is again abetted by the invention of new weapons with great striking power that will be the materialization of those weapons existing now only in science fiction novels. They are deathray throwers, ray canons, ray rifles and ray guns, among others. In the midst of these developments, three scientists will generate an incredibly inexpensive energy source, although this will not be the only new form of energy, for another will be found as well, that is based on sound vibrations. And again, new and deadly weapons will be developed from this. Scientists tend to utilize everything they can get their hands on, and for this reason it is inevitable that Man will stop the Greenhouse Effect and utilize its effects in reverse, thereby preventing a further melting of the polar caps.

These actions, in turn, will lower the highly elevated water levels of all oceans. During this period, terrestrial Man will increasingly dedicate himself to space travel, which he had neglected for many years. Venus will be particularly interesting for terrestrial human beings during this period, and for this reason Man will contemplate sending a manned space capsule to the volcanic planet. Simultaneously, Man will avail himself of a new energy source by exploiting the Earth's interior energies. He will develop two new, dangerous weapons. The first weapon's high-pitched, humanly inaudible sounds will be able to destroy any material and will have the capability of absolutely destroying all life forms ... - an ultrasound weapon in other words. The second weapon will have as its basis high frequency energies which, too, will be capable of destroying and killing everything. Discoveries and inventions in the field of gene technology or gentic manipulation, respectively, will continue, for events must unfold - contrary to the desires of the foes of genetic manipulation who even now persist in ranting and raving against it.

Precipitated by the previously mentioned climate weapon, the entire Earth will be subjected to very problematic climatic changes when overall temperatures fall, that is, they drop dramatically. The result will be that land masses and oceans will freeze because of Man's insanity. Consequently, a new invention will be developed that, powered by the most economical of energies, artificially heats the Earth's atmosphere. This is the moment when Japan and China will discover that the prevailing physics is not the last word in knowledge, but that there exists yet a higher level of physics which extends into fine-matter spheres. Upon this realization, science will be discredited for some time. Nonetheless, space exploration will continue and a new world discovered in this process; a new Earth that will be suitable for maintaining human terrestrials.

The discovery, refurbishing and renewed operation of ancient extraterrestrial artifacts and stations on Mars in the not-too-distant future, and much later in other places as well, will be accomplished by our more distant descendants. These events are also associated with grave danger, however, for dangerous diseases and epidemics will be brought back to Earth by way of space travel, along with the exceedingly vicious 'wolf' as one prediction calls this horror, which could be a horrifying animal or a deadly epidemic. The definition of the "wolf" is not clear yet and its explanation is still pending. According to the prediction, this deadly factor will be introduced or carried to Earth either by ordinary space travellers or lawbreaking space travellers.

This "nocturnal dawning" will be a new technological achievement whereby the dark side of planet Earth is illuminated by an artificial sun affixed to a space station; this device will not create full daylight, but a bright, dawnlike condition.

The artificial sun in the sky will virtually ring in a new age, the Age of Space Conquest on a grand scale. From here on, space travel definitively will become commercial and turn into a significant, powerful institution by which Man, through science, will pursue the enigma of Creation and with it the origin of life and all existence. Of course, these events will make science very respectable again especially as they relate to the institution of space travel, which will control the scientists. Ultimately, this will not turn out well and will transpire as it must: This space travel institution will increasingly ignore the terrestrial governments and science, deal with them unfairly, and will generate conflicts again that provide the most auspicious base for a new war. All of this will come into play barely 15 years after the aging gene is isolated and neutralized, when the human biologic aging process is largely surmounted, and the related previous vicious genetic manipulation finally remedied again. A looming new war will break out and last for approximately 40 years. During this period or about 6 years prior, humans will be converted into machines, that is, robots for the first time by connecting their nervous system to microscopic electronic-biologic gadgetry and machinery that will serve to guide them.

Because of Man's intrinsic attitude, induced by his degeneration, wars and revolts will occur on Mars. These events will transpire when humans, after conferring with extraterrestrials, construct residential buildings beneath the oceans which will dangerously interfere with the ecologic equilibrium of the oceans, land masses and the air. Once again the time will arise when another new, dangerous, fatal weapon is invented that will disintegrate the bones of life forms. Simultaneously, the artificial sun created about fifty years prior will drift from its orbit and over a mere seventy-two hour period will plunge to Earth. The Earth's own rotation and orbit around the Sun will change then and result in the reduction in the length of years, days and nights. Unfortunately, this will also be the time when the first space conflict - a space war - takes place between terrestrials and those humans who will have migrated to Mars by then. The gigantic space station in orbit behind the Sun will be damaged. At this time a new terrestrial chronology will be contemplated because the altered lengths of the days and seasons on Earth cannot be utilized in the old system.

Regarding the Earth itself, a fact not mentioned in the predictions is that, all along, the scientists were unaware that this planet was not expanding over the millennia through the accumulation of falling star dust and meteors, etc., but that, imperceptibly, it has been expanding internally. This means that an imperceptible expansion process is ongoing for millennia whereby, slowly but surely, the Earth's internal riches are transported to the surface. Over time, this expansion process will accelerate in correlation with the Sun's decreasing nuclear fusion rate through which all gravity fields within this entire solar system will change, in particular those of all the planets.

None of these predictions are vague. They are very detailed and specific, as if they are being read of a screen looking into the future.

[edit on 24-4-2009 by Indigo_Child]

reply to post by Indigo_Child


The contact notes are FULL of material of many different varieties: vague predictions, postdictions, random guesses, etc. It is this inconsistency of Meier's which may be making you think that I am being inconsistent. It is a mistake to say that I accept the entire 251st contact note as a whole. The main reason I looked into the Bugey Power Station prediction is because Michael Horn sent out press releases and went on radio shows saying that it had come true. He said repeatedly that it was the best case example of Billy Meier's predictive abilities. If the Bugey Power Station is the best case example and it is completely and utterly wrong, then it doesn't say much about his predictive abilities, does it?

-Derek

Regarding the predictions above. As these predictions are for the future, every prediction is unfalsifiable, except for the ones which have already occured regarding the Mars missions. Although again these are unfalsifiable as there have been many Mars missions since 1995. We will shortly, though obviously we wouldn't want this to happen, find out if the US civil war, the Vesivus eruption and the WW3 predictions is true.

What I find very interesting about this case, which I am sure you no doubt dismiss, is the startling amount of detail in each prediction. It gives similar precise details for short-term events, as it does very long term events. Is he making it all up? If so, how is able to give such precise accounts of what will happen, with so much scientific detail? Meier does not have a scientific background, on the contrary he is a school drop out, how is he able to so fluently use scientific language and construct plausible scientific futrues?

I said it before this before, either:

This one armed farmer is actually a hoaxing mastermind genius. He can develop photographs and videos of UFO's which remain irreproducible to date, he can record sounds irreproducible by the state of the art sound equipment, he can engineer metals to look like they are advanced, he can fool a 5 year long entire scientific investigation team, he can compose an entire new bible scroll, he can write out 2500 pages of information on new science, new history. He can construct an entire new cosmology. He can organize around 200 witnesses, including high-level ones, such as CIA officials and a UN diplomat. He can pass lie detector tests and other psychological examinatiins. And he can map out the entire future with great detail.

Or

This one armed farmer is actually telling the truth.

I am sorry but my rational mind tells that the most simplest explanation here is that he is telling the truth. The former sounds like a plot from a science fiction cartoon - an ordinary farmer, actually is an evil mastermind out to control the world.

[edit on 24-4-2009 by Indigo_Child]

For whatever it's worth, I just received the following email from Steelmark online:

From: Steelmarkonline
Date: April 30, 2009 8:32:22 AM PDT
To: "derek"
Subject: RE: PDF downloads

Derek,

The pdfs and sounds are no longer available for download and has not been for some time.

Sorry for the inconvenience.

Sincerely,

Jason Steele
Steelmark

Probably been stolen by the FBI, CIA, NSA, space aliens

First post here.

I've been following this thread for a couple of days now (I think I got through 13 pages before realising my eyes couldn't take anymore). I have to admit, I'm no expert, and I didn't even know about Billy Meier's claims before a week ago, after randomly finding it on Wikipedia. After that, I stalked his story on the net, wherever I could find articles, etc...

After doing some research (which, in some people's eyes, would not be enough to make an "informed" decision), I'm gonna have to sit firmly in the "I think he's deluded" camp. While my mind is open enough to accept that the man may have encountered some things he believed to be otherworldly, there's a lot of things wrong with his claims that my logical self can't get around.

Saying that, I still find this entire thing very fascinating, but also very confusing, with multiple people defending/attacking, and several issues danced around, as well as some people just being outright rude. So, I do have a few questions that will probably come across extremely skeptical-like.

If these aliens have contacted Meier with a message that humanity needs to save itself from itself, then why haven't they done more to ensure that? I understand that they probably don't want to make it all about them, but in that case, why let him take photos of their ships? Surely by doing so, they're already making it all about them, and not about the message itself. By not revealing themselves (and the concrete proof the world needs), decades have been wasted. I get that it's humanity who needs to do it for themselves, but it seems like a contradiction. "We'll let you take some photos of our ships to show we exist but we won't let you take photos of us because we don't want to interfere."

Also, I think I read somewhere that Billy Meier travelled back in time and met Jesus and the latter told Billy he was better than him (I know this isn't the quote). If this is the case, then what has Billy done to make the world better? If he truly is some kind of special person, chosen by these aliens to take humanity that step further, then what has he done to progress that mission?

My last question for now is, why Billy Meier? Why would they choose this seemingly average man to convey their message? Why wouldn't they choose the Prime Minister of England or Australia or the President of the United States? Why go to all this trouble to try and save humanity, only to choose a spokesperson the world won't really listen to? Surely it would make more sense to choose someone in power, someone who is in a position to make a change?

EDIT : My REAL last question is in regards to the ray gun. Whether I think it looks fake or not doesn't matter, it's the nature behind it. If the aliens are against violence, and doesn't want humanity to be violent towards another, then why would they allow Billy to photograph an instrument of violence?

Okay, so, like I said... I'm not the most informed person. And if any of what I've said/asked is incoherent, then I blame the flu I've been struck with!

Thanks in advance for any replies.

[edit on 24-7-2009 by Bluemcgee]

I believe the contact notes. As for some of the picture im not sure.

reply to post by Michael12


As you said:

Anyway, with Vogel's honest assessment that HE couldn't put the alloy sample together himself, due also to the micro-machining and the probable manufacture through cold fusion, various parties suddenly took the case quite seriously. It is also said that certain superconductors came out of IBM about a year after Vogel's analysis.

There might be other UFO sightings that left behind metal.
High voltage in the craft can be a cause of its own self pitting or melting.

I was just listening to some Billy Meier Contact Notes -( Beamships)s and The Early years seton mp3 and find that some stuff seems to have happened and other stuff maybe faked and added to attain more credibility.. the foto of semjase is definitely faked and the lady who was in the foto has now come into the open it was one of the pop group the Gold-diggers on the dean martin show.
However, Billy Meier claims it was swopped by the Men in Black as disinformation strategy.

reply to post by derekcbartderekcbart


"These are the links to Jim Dilettoso saying that the Wedding Cake UFO is a fake and that he was unaware that Michael Horn was still using his 20+ year old analysis and presenting it as though it was recently done:
www.theparacast.com...
media.podcastingmanager.com... "

i listened to both of them....

" Jim Dilettoso saying that the Wedding Cake UFO is a fake "

Jim actually said there are two ways

1-subjective brain-mind-eye thing

2-Data model,which i havent done

that clearly says that he has not done any data processing of WCUFO ships and hes just letting out his opinion according to wat he has seen & analysed many other UFO pics in his life(most of them are fake and are not at this close distance from the camera to make a clearcut judgement)...

SO this clealry is not a healthy skepticsm sir...taking opinions rather than facts...

----------------------------------
IN that audio at 1:40:00 and 2:00:00,jim says he never said that those crafts are of paranormal nature...

i agree with him he never said that those were of EXTRATERRESTRIAL in nature,what he said was there was no evidence of hoax...

i didnt find micheal horn saying anywhere that jim dilettoso anlaysed and found that these were of EXTRATERRESTRIAL SPACECRAFTS..

--------------------------------
At 1:46:00

JIm says that the equipment he used at that time was almost same as the equipments used in present day technology[MEDIA CYBERNETICS]..u will hear him say "fourier transforms are fourier transforms,histograms are histograms".
he concludes that only the resolution and speed of the machine changed but the analysis procedure pretty much remained the same...

so let ur pics be processed thru the same equipment as meiers...

-------------------------------
photo analysis document is for free at www.theyfly.com but not for $30 as the guys in the radio show says...seems they really know nothing except bad mouthing,character assasination and laugh at anything that doesnt make sense to their minds...

-------------------------------
also in the radio show,they say "BIlly said that he was the reincarnation of jesus"..

BIlly never said that he was the incarnation of jesus anywhere..if u can show me.try it...
this is misrepresenting facts and called disinformation..
--------------------------
my request:being in a respected position like independednt investigative group.u have the repsonsibilty sir,to pave way for the world into light of knowledge and wisdom but not the way towards disinformation,character assasinations,slandering....

hope u realise the weight of the situation and turn towards the true healthy skepticism...
wish u all the best

1]

my great great grand father have duplicated all the photos taken by meier and he wont submit his photos unless meier catch the culprits who has stolen the photos and obtain from them his original negatives & photos ..
no matter how real they look and verified by experts,i dnt care ,i simply want original negatives & photos..

2]
my great great grand mother duplicated all of meier videos and she also insists that she wont submit her videos for testing unless meier again catch the culprits who has stolen his films or manipulated his films.no matter how strange the ship moves,hovers and i dont care even if it sounds impossible for a tethered model to do movements,i dont care..i simply want original films...


3]
my great great grand son has duplicated meiers metal alloy samples and he also doesnt want to submit unless meier obtain new samples from ET's or get back the stolen samples which was lost in the hands of late marcel vogel.no matter what the analysis & results done by marcel vogel and Dr.walker on the sample,though they say that this is simply impossible to manufacture on earth,i simply dont care...i want another bunch of metal samples may be a ton of metal from the alleged beamship...

4]
even if meier allowed to analyse the finger/hand prints on the car hood,i dont have free time to go their and analyse the evidence.i have lot of important work doing gardening,killing mosquitoes,counting stars in the sky and many other...

5]

i dont care wat meier predicted or prophecised...even my mentally retarded neighbour can predict what day comes after monday and can also predict what letter comes after letter "B"...i dont care even if meiers predictions which came true appeared in copyrighted books and self published books.[which were always witnessed by core group,CG49 members and were distributed to anyone whose interested in the case in europe and later in america in english].if its real then tell meier or any meierites to buy and bring the copyrighted book or selfpublished material to my home and show
me.till then i wont pay any penny to buy material & verify and wont believe...

6]

a bunch of beggars at the corner of the street has made some strange sounds with their begging bowls and sticks thats exactly resembles meier's alleged beamship sounds...so thers nothing special in meiers beamship sounds...even if there are witnesses to meiers recordings and the results of analysis done by various state-of-art labs like Excalibur Sound Studios,Naval Undersea Sound Center showing that the beamship sound was unidentifiable..and pretty hard to achieve 32 frequencies ....i simply dont care..my beggar frens can do it better...

7]

you know i simply dont have time to enquire MUFON-CES & ufologist LUc Burgin which it got some information about the 236 radar sightings by swiss airforce authority above meiers house.i have already decided and came to conclusion that it shud be a hoax and will be a hoax..and is a hoax...before i even started looking into the matter...

8]

Regarding to 120 + witnesses,i simply dont care even the whole swiss country or whole of europe or even the whole globe witnesses & photographs the ships,until i see the ships with my own eyes,i wont beleive a damn thing...


i agree with all honest,egoless, openminded skeptics like many here in ATS like me...
i am a serious researcher and from my immense powerful rational thinking and logic....i feel that the case is a

hoax and is closed for all time..

hi to all truth seekers and nonsense seekers...
working always on a very low poor quality doesnt take u anywhere..
i recently bought "through space and time" photo book,and i hope sme pics from it will satisfy ur not so true skeptical minds....

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/files/e516ff5d059a5aab.gif[/atsimg]
i have seen this photo posted by someone saying that the below shiny thing is rod.well what he said is half right and half wrong..the below thing is shiny & caused by the reflection of sunlight by a highly relfective metallic surface of wcufo...
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/files/041249a2db4c6cd0.jpg[/atsimg]
sunreflection

observe the reflection on below the wcufo,on the rim of wcufo and also on the nice round balls,,they all point in the same direction that is the direction of the sun...
--------------------------------------------
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/files/db2031a8a22d30af.jpg[/atsimg]
someone said that "if the both trees are at the same distance,why is wcufo tree so dark and at the other tree which is to the extreme right appears so light and looks hazy...so they conlcuded that the wcufo hung tree is a model tree....close to the camera...

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/files/47d7a21a066bd743.jpg[/atsimg]

here in this good clarity picture from "through space and time" photo book..it clearly shows that its either a different species tree with no leaves or cud be the same species tree with no leaves....
------------------------------------------------------
my request:before attempting to say smething is a hoax,we need to have good data..and good analytical,logical,reasoning ability....if we dont have the first,watever we analyse its waste of time....so once again...have a nice day to all truth seekers and revolutionaries of truth

I'm sure that we're being visited by UFOs BUT the Billy Meier case is clearly full of fake images. The garbage bin rim with the appendage is clearly what someone has used to build a model of a space ship. The picture of the "pterodactyl' he claims to have viewed is clearly lifted from a book, it's identical.
Unless Billy arrives on my front lawn in a saucer and steps out with a case of beer for me I'm afraid I must add him to the list of fakes who have done so much damage to the credibility of the UFO community. I don't care about his predictions or prophesies, as far as I'm concerned he has blown his credibility.

The one thing that never seems to be mentioned concerning those "Alena Ray Gun" pictures is the FACT that "SHE" is a DUMMY! It's not even a real person. Check out the SAME arm and hand positions as well as the same body stance between photos. Funny that anyone would consider this to be even remotely plausible. What does it say about Michael Horn??!!! Or Billy Meier for that?

Meier says he is the ONLY ET contactee on the planet... He definitely is not. Hes lame IMO.

Guys seriously. That is obviously a ray gun of Pledian origin. Ask any of the aliens on the board. And the suit isn't aluminum foil. Its an unknown allow used to reflect harmful UV rays which inhibit the aliens superpowers. And the 6th finger is on the back of the hand. Duh. And that's not an earth perm either. Thats her hair being frizzy from rolling the window down on the flying taco and the solar wind frying her hair.

Originally posted by DrJay1975
Guys seriously. That is obviously a ray gun of Pledian origin. Ask any of the aliens on the board. And the suit isn't aluminum foil. Its an unknown allow used to reflect harmful UV rays which inhibit the aliens superpowers. And the 6th finger is on the back of the hand. Duh. And that's not an earth perm either. Thats her hair being frizzy from rolling the window down on the flying taco and the solar wind frying her hair.

LOL!!!! I wish I could give you a hundred stars for just one thing. I started reading and saw you explain the ray gun and laughed but thought to myself is he for real? Then the tin foil and I knew you were joking but then I was certain that there would be no joke about the 6th finger and BAM! Just for that 6th finger reference, you made my day.

I just wish that someday we'll get to see the supposedly "hundreds" of photos taken by Meier. As it is, we just keep seeing the same photos over and over, I suppose because they're the "best." Well, I don't just want to see the best. How about we see them all? In nice, high-resolution scans? Yeah, it used to be kind of expensive to do that, but now it's relatively easy and cheap.

Let's see them all. Just out of curiosity.

reply to post by Blue Shift


The first time I ever even heard of him was from some video I accidentally downloaded. It was some guy going through a book of supposed polaroids that Meier had taken whilst time traveling. There was the famous pterasaur picture but there were others. They looked so fake but the guy was presenting them as if they were proven real. I have not been able to find it since but there were plenty of pictures I had never seen before in there as well as some we all have.

Anyone else ever see it?

Are you the 6th fingered man? Allo. My name is Eniego Montoya you keel my father, prepare to die.