Originally posted by Springer

No it doesn't "escape my mind". I have considered that. But I have observed the phenomena in this and many other threads and I find the level of starring in some cases to be absolutely unfeasible, under normal circumstances. I came to that conclusion before I saw the Lear video. That's my opinion.

And what are you insulting me for? I'm not even a Meier supporter, so why try to tar me with the "religious" tag? I'm a supporter of free objective discussion and the right to hold our own opinions and require that "debunking" meet basic standards, not be based on poor research, or poorly done experiments, or on mob mentality and rank ridicule.

That seems pretty reasonable to me.

[edit on 22-4-2009 by Malcram]

Originally posted by Malcram
And I still appreciate that reproductions of the photos and videos would need to be accurate both in using the same tech as was originally used and in achieving the same results. I haven't seen that successfully accomplished as yet. And I think it's reasonable to expect that, don't you?

No I do not think it's reasonable. Quite the opposite. Because as I said it will never cease, once someone goes there a little bit, it will keep going and going...there's no end, because certain people WANT to believe, for whatever reason.

Forced perspective has been around for many many MANY years, and has nothing to do with the "technology of the time", we've seen it time and time again. Christmas ornaments, pie tins, trashcan lids, gold foil wrapping paper and funny little home made toy foil covered rayguns so not need to be bound by a "tech time line" of any sort.

Sorry, there's no modern magic at work, it's the same thing, a model in forced perspective, either mounted or hanging from a really light lb/ test of monofilament.

What's seems unreasonable to me is that people still can look at this case and think that any tiny part of it could even possibly be real. Maybe Ole Billy didn't set out to become rich or famous, heck maybe he's just a lonely farmer who needed some attention or wanted something different out of life, I dunno. Perhaps he though he would take some photos and tell some feel good stories and that would be the end of it, but as it grew he got deeper and deeper that he had to keep the lie going and twist it (trash can lid excuse, anyone?) as much as he could.

No matter, in the end it's still a slap in the face to serious Ufology, and makes those of us that take it serious look like loons, along the same lines as Blossom (this time they're really coming) Goodchild, Bob (where's my degree) Lazar, John (you can breathe on the moon) Lear, etc, etc, etc...

As Obi-Wan would say "These aren't the UFO's you're looking for. "

Originally posted by Soloist

What's seems unreasonable to me is that people still can look at this case and think that any tiny part of it could even possibly be real.

Well such people do exist, I'd like to hear what they have to say and make up my own mind free from getting caught in the crossfire of ridicule and sneering, getting labeled "religious" etc, just because I'm open to listening.

No matter, in the end it's still a slap in the face to serious Ufology, and makes those of us that take it serious look like loons

I understand that perspective, I really do. But unfortunately, that's the same reason why many scientists will not entertain looking into the ETH or UFO's at all. You look down on those who consider Meier might be legit, others look down on you for considering ET/UFO's at all. You don't appreciate it being looked down on, I'm sure, neither do those whom you ridicule. Why can't we all just get along? LOL. In any case, if the evidence against Meier is so strong, there should be no fear of open discussion about it without, ridicule, censorship and deletion of threads etc. Responses like this just make the case against Meier look weaker.

[edit on 22-4-2009 by Malcram]

Here's some more facts:

In spite of all the efforts and the fact this thread has hung around the top (latest) of the largest Aliens/UFO forum on the internet only 71 people have bothered to actually look at it over the past THREE DAYS. Based on the star counts of the posts that attempt to address the truth of this HOAX, the VAST majority have done the research, seen the phony pictures along side their real counterparts (the dinosaur for one) and have shared their opinion about the falseness of this HOAX with stars.

I will also point out that Indigo child is getting very close to violating the "Posting by Proxy" clause in our TAC. He is aping the very same ridiculous arguments M. Horn attempted to use here each and every time he was banned. We don't tolerate the posting of banned people's words by others here.

I am very close to simply shutting this and every other Meier HOAX thread down and banning the whole ridiculous topic. It's a pointless waste of time and energy.

The continuous and ludicrous demand for duplication will no longer be tolerated. It is as failed an argument as has ever been tossed out in desperation. The fact is, to those who have even a basic understanding of photography, they have been duplicated and completely debunked. If you are incapable of understanding that, well, that is your business but we are tired of reading it. I invite you to go start a BIG Billy Meier website and debunk the debunkers all you want.

NOBODY wants to go through the time and effort to exactly reproduce FAKE UFO pictures, there is no value in it. Simply to satisfy those who lack the critical thinking ability to be able to review the FACTS of the case is not motivation enough.

It's no different an argument than to say that because mr.old.school. can't do brain surgery, brain surgery can't be done (I could be wrong he may be a brain surgeon, I abuse his name for example only).

The REALITY is that mr.old.school. apparently doesn't want to devote the time and resources needed to learn how to perform brain surgery, so he declines, but rest assured, brain surgery is certainly done on a daily basis.

The parroting of banned people's arguments that only attempt to serve to promote a known HOAX ends today, right now.

Springer...




[edit on 4-22-2009 by Springer]

Yep. Just like I said. This is the way it always ends. It's just a waste of time and effort that accomplishes absolutely nothing. It would be nice if there was something new to say about it. But there never is.

Oh, well.

Originally posted by Nohup
Yep. Just like I said. This is the way it always ends. It's just a waste of time and effort that accomplishes absolutely nothing. It would be nice if there was something new to say about it. But there never is.

Oh, well.

Actually there was something new in the last thread, but you'll never read it because it's been deleted. IIG were shown to have dismissed evidence without even having bothered to examine it, and Derek of IIG admitted as much, immediately before the thread was erased. But I agree, it seems that Meier threads and anyone who isn't willing to accept it must all be a hoax receive intense ridicule and opposition and this heat is used to justify terminating the discussion.

[edit on 22-4-2009 by Malcram]

Originally posted by Indigo_Child
A valid argument would be if you could actually locate the actual gun in the picture and prove that it was available to Meier during the time the photograph was taken. The independent investigation team in the 70's did not find any such gun in any store, any toy supplier in all of Switzerland.

That's not a valid argument, that's a ridiculous and impossible argument. Noone could EVER prove that it even if they magically found the gun that it was available to Meier on the date the photo was taken, this is beyond all reasoning, period, and only proves my earlier point about the time machine. Since they only looked in toy stores when it's obvious this was some home-made hack job only proves how crooked an "investigation" is was.

Out of curiosity, did they happen to search wig shops in "all of Switzerland" for a matching style like the "Alien" is wearing? Also, are there any pictures of the "Alien" with both arms in the same shot? Or ever the left at all? Isn't that the arm that Billy is missing? Just curious.

1) The gold-metallic suit is similar to industrial-based gold-foil used for spacecrafts and satellites. It turns out a gold-foil like suit is the best insulation against space radiation and heat from onboard electronics in a spacecraft(consistent with the space-suit explanation)

Here, I got a present for you :



Simple crinkle some up real good, tape it to your shirt, and your silly home made "raygun" and voila :



There, mystery solved!

2) The oval shaped hole through the tree Meier used the gun on, which was parched and smoothe as glass according to the investigators who examined the tree. They also found everything within the line of fire of the gun from where Meier claimed to shot his weapon was parched, and twigs were broken in between as if a ray had passed through them.(consistent with the ray-gun explanation)

Where Meier "claimed" to have shot... mmmhmm... funny how the same standard of proof does not apply when the shoe is on the other foot, eh?