Billy Meier UFO Contact Hoax: Discussion

reply to post by Dr Love


Yes, agreed. Everyone forgets we are subjective prisoners unless we turn off the TV recorder in our shallow visual cortex. It looks to a regular person like a fake because they have no objectivity or experience with other forms of technology.

I worked on the FIRST published Meier debunking book by Bill Moore and Kal K. It was bull crap. I know because I saw the actual NASA tests on the photos they had done and there was no sign of fake. But in their rabid determination to prove he was a fake they had me actually duplicate the original photographs so they could skirt copyright laws, but they did not tell me they had no permission. That is illegal also.

I made some off the cuff sketches for them on how this could be faked, not really believing my own ideas, and without my permission they published them as their own ideas. I know biased debunks. Many here on ATS too.

Omni Magazine back in 1979 said the book was like shooting an ant with an Elephant gun, so I knew they where idiots too.

I never got paid or got back the originals for 9 airbrush illustrations, and never even got more than one copy of the book, I lost that to a borrower creep. So I would not be so sure Meier is fake yet.

I know how the Wedding Cake ship was falsely accused of being modeled too. They built a model to show how it could NOT be faked and proved it. But some chump saw the model and made a leap of ignorance that this then proved ALL the photos where faked. (another idiot)

Lots of amateurs out there that think they know crap from shinola. They don't. After seeing the original photos, reading and knowing the stories from both sides, and the people involved I tend to believe Meier.

His/their message is good too. Do some reading and turn off the cartoon shows sometime guys. Thinking instructions cannot be found on a box of PooPoo Puffs cereal.

ZG

If I were Meier, and the contacts with the Pleiadeans were authentic, I'd beg them to regenerate my arm. No kidding, I would do that.

Click here for more information.

So let me make sure I understand, Mr. Moderator, someone can call folks "idiots" and "chumps", but when one of those "idiots" or "chumps" responds, then their post is deleted. I just want to make sure I'm clear on this point. I mean, my deleted post even seemed to garner stars, so apparently someone agreed with me.

[edit on 15-2-2008 by davidbiedny]

Originally posted by davidbiedny
I mean, my deleted post even seemed to garner stars, so apparently someone agreed with me.

That's not always indicative of a high-quality post. No ratings system is perfect. Human error and/or cluelessness can factor into a decision to star a post.

Peace

reply to post by Dr Love


Yeah, heck...I starred yours....

Man that Billy Meier stuff is a hoot, ain't it?

Originally posted by ZeroGhost
Lots of amateurs out there that think they know crap from shinola. They don't. After seeing the original photos, reading and knowing the stories from both sides, and the people involved I tend to believe Meier.

Personally, as I've said before, I don't care whether his photos are fake or real. It's completely beside the point because photos - any photos - are inherently of very limited value in these investigations in the first place. And people can argue all day long about how the photos could be done, or whether he was capable of doing it. There's no way to accurately duplicate a photo, because a photo is a singular thing happening at a single time and place, and just because you can cook up something that sort of looks like it doesn't hold any water for me.

As for the stories, well, I can make up a pretty good story, too. Probably even a better one than Meier's.

The point for me is that after all this time and all these alleged contacts, the quality of the other corroborating evidence has always remained at the same shoddy level. Something always "conveniently" happens to stall legitimate attempts to verify anything. Whether it's people mistaking real with hoax models/photos, lost originals, or whatever, the dog always shows up to eat the homework. There's always that last bit of information missing that would nail it down, no question, ask anybody.

It's like the guy who borrows money from you, but something always happens so he can't pay you back. It's all somebody else's fault -- blame the aliens for their reticence, or the detractors for their sabotage, or the uncontrollable winds of fate. Whatever.

At some point, if you (not you, personally, ZeroGhost, but anybody) want me to buy your story (or your DVD), then you're going to have to deliver the goods. Real, unimpeachable stuff that doesn't mysteriously vanish, that stands up to any test anybody wants to throw at it. You're going to have to be more diligent and careful and maybe make some kind of an effort to make sure the homework doesn't get near the dog.

Otherwise, you're out of luck with me. If you can't prove to me it's all jive, then as far as I'm concerned, jive it is. I'm that way. If it's the honest to God truth, then too bad for us both, I guess. I'm not in any hurry to believe anything without good proof. There's no rush. I'll wait.

reply to post by davidbiedny


If thats a Moderator now, don't expect any even treatment in a Meier thread.

Thats why I'm staying out of them.

[edit on 15-2-2008 by jritzmann]

In response to "Bigwhammy" and "MANNYP4", to understand the Meier case I do think one has to allow that his contacting ETs have long been familiar with humanity, have kept up with Earth affairs, know alot about human psychology, can remotely monitor public opinion, have done their homework, are more intelligent/smart than us, and have high ethical standards from a long-term, cosmic viewoint. Only then could you appreciate that their use of plausible deniability serves several purposes:

1) To supply negative skeptics with pieces of data here and there that may seemingly support their preexisting negative bias, so that an intolerable truth won't be forced upon them too swiftly. Such skeptics can then latch onto that data while ignoring all the supportive data. Their "free will" is then not violated.

2) To keep Meier in an easily debunkable status so that there won't be a whole lot more assassination attempts against him than what already have transpired.

3) To make it highly improbable that all the photo and other evidence Meier was allowed to collect would suddenly and prematurely blow the lid off the whole UFO coverup, in which case the Plejarens would be partially responsible for all the resulting choas, violence and death.

3a) To allow these ETs to continue to supply info and evidence to Billy to pass on to us, without destroying the UFO coverup, so that we'll know more about these ETs, their capabilities and their ethics, while forcing us to check out everything they tell Billybefore believing it.

In this manner, a true skeptic can understand and accomodate both the mass of supportive evidence that Meier's contacts are real, and the seemingly negative evidence. He doesn't have to be improperly selective and just choose the one and reject the other.

LOL, why, seriously why are we still debating this clown's legitimacy? Every single photo of his happens to be the most ABSOLUTE obvious fake I have ever seen. From his "Wedding Cake" that looks to be the scale of a Chipmunk Spaceship, to this Raygun that reminds me of a toy I had as a kid, this guy is a real joke. Why do we even bother looking into Meier anymore? It takes a really fanciful believer without a logical mind to conclude that his photographs are indeed genuine. What will we see next, a Fish Bowl Alien Astronaut Helmet?

Originally posted by Jim Deardorff
In response to "Bigwhammy" and "MANNYP4", to understand the Meier case I do think one has to allow that his contacting ETs have long been familiar with humanity, have kept up with Earth affairs, know alot about human psychology, can remotely monitor public opinion, have done their homework, are more intelligent/smart than us, and have high ethical standards from a long-term, cosmic viewoint. Only then could you appreciate that their use of plausible deniability serves several purposes:

Hi Jim. I can make remarks from the get-go that put serious question marks on the alleged ETs that contacted Meier. Don't get me wrong, plausible deniability as a concept has a lot of potential when it comes to the ETH hypothesis. But the thing is, in the Meier case it doesn't add up and I personally feel that you stretch the concept way out of proportion. You attribute (unknown) factors to Meier's alleged ETs. You say that they are familiar with humanity, know about psychology and have higher ethical standards. The latter in particular makes my head spin since Meier and his alleged ETs weren't too reluctant to totally discredit a person using strong, foul language. That is just one remark I can make. Secondly, there are elements in the Meier case that show no insight or foresight whatsoever. Most notably when things go wrong. You know this so why do you insist that it's all part of some strategy when it's more simpler to accept that Meier is winging it and making excuses.

1) To supply negative skeptics with pieces of data here and there that may seemingly support their preexisting negative bias, so that an intolerable truth won't be forced upon them too swiftly. Such skeptics can then latch onto that data while ignoring all the supportive data. Their "free will" is then not violated.

"Free will" is another elevated, shapeless concept but you must realise the moment a UFO is visible to an eyewitness, free will is automatically addressed. Meier himself basicly makes no distinction between layers of grey. He's a 'black and white' guy. How many times in the Meier info does he say; 'this is the truth'?. (But later on matters change. How many times did that happen?) Your argument that negative, repulsive elements are woven into the case doesn't add up for the more experienced, veteran UFO researcher.

2) To keep Meier in an easily debunkable status so that there won't be a whole lot more assassination attempts against him than what already have transpired.

That seems to be a factor Meier has had to deal with from birth. In his teens he already had dealings with the law and well before his case became official in 1975 he had numerous incidents which don't vowe for his character. What exactly do Meier's ETs want?

More on this later. I must say Jim that I'm somewhat disappointed that you don't consider other options and basicly come up with softening circumstances for each and every aspect in the Meier case which I don't see you do in other areas of ufology or contactees. From my perspective, that puts you in the 'strict believer' corner.

In response to Jim Deardorff:

It's exactly the other way around, to believe in billy meiers a person has to completely think without logic, and accept things that define logical and radical thinking. These supposedly “advanced extraterrestrials” continuously kept making the same mistakes that were made in the media at the time Meier supposedly wrote such prophesies (not a surprise that we can’t find out when Meier’s prophesies were first written). How is that possible if they are so "advanced"? ikea42!!!

meier supposedly has had contact since the age of 5 yet his life is so ordinary, he even ended up in a mental institution, jail, etc. (now it all makes sense). He even smokes, yet he is supposed to be the highest spiritual person on this planet receiving contact from advanced spiritual extraterrestrials that were teaching him since the age of 5? Helloooo!!

If at some point back in the 70's or 80's anyone believed in meier, I am sure that by now in 2008 they have more questions than answers.

There are too many mistakes and excuses than actual hard backed up data (if there is any at all)!!!

Show me a couple of scientist or investigators from present time that can take meier’s accounts seriously! Better yet, any scientist who can publicly present any data from Meier and back it up with real scientific explanations! I thought so!!

Nothing against you personally but to believe in Meier’s fake pictures, prophesies/predictions (whatever the excuse may be), a person’s intelligence would be questionable. All I hear from people defending meier is what was said 10-20 years ago from some questionable characters. When few of them are now questioned, they mostly say they were misquoted or that what they said was mis-represented.

For example, Marcel Vogel was not a metallurgist and yet you guys present him as one of the most crucial expert in this case. Also, all the elements in the supposed metal sample (hard to find or not) are found here on earth. There are no new elements found in the metal sample.

Before you create your next post, be sure that it contains answers instead of faith or belief. Mostly all meier's defenders post and never actually answer the questions. The reality won't change, it's just one excuse after another trying to justify Meier and frankly they are just beating around the bush without answering the core questions (the reason is because there really is no answer, it’s just a belief at this point).

"Plausible deniability" has to be the most brilliant excuse out there in meier’s mad case and to really swallow that excuse, one has to really really be desperate and ready to believe in anything.

Here is a thought: if meier (the spiritual prophet) is so highly spiritual and mighty why didn't he ever reimburse all the people that bought his books with fake pictures? meier himself publicly admitted that the first ones in his book were all fakes, saying that the men in black faked them all, but of course after he couldn’t defend the obviously fake pictures. I mean isn't it the right thing to do for a spiritual person that is? Give me a break!!!

This case goes like this, when people say that the pictures are fake, Meier’s followers defend them, however, the ones that are 100% fake, it is said that the “men in black” falsify them. There is no pick or choose, they are either fake or not. Meier himself (the prophet) admitted that they are fake (with a laughable excuse, MIB). At the end, all that matters is that they are fake and that the case does not have a single shread of hard backed up evidence/data to back up its claims.

Note: I just saw Terrax’s post and that is exactly what I wanted to write, oh well I couldn’t have expressed it better myself, anyway here is my post!

Originally posted by Jim Deardorff
3) To make it highly improbable that all the photo and other evidence Meier was allowed to collect would suddenly and prematurely blow the lid off the whole UFO coverup, in which case the Plejarens would be partially responsible for all the resulting choas, violence and death.

I find the quote above remarkable Jim. You're a strong supporter of the Talmud Jmmanuel, lets think a moment about the mechanisms involved here. Supposedly these Plejarens (Meier's ETs) inadvertently started Christianity and Islam. They wanted to distribute the true teachings but every time it got distorted by someone else and they didn't intervene to change the outcome. So basicly the Plejarens were instrumental in the birth of Christianity and Islam. How much chaos, violence and death resulted from these two opposing religions? And now you're holding a hand over these same ETs as if they want to protect people? Think outside the box here Jim.

3a) To allow these ETs to continue to supply info and evidence to Billy to pass on to us, without destroying the UFO coverup, so that we'll know more about these ETs, their capabilities and their ethics, while forcing us to check out everything they tell Billy before believing it.

If you ask me Jim, I'd say they want to enroll us in another modified, upgraded belief system. That method wont work anymore Jim for some people. And as for checking out what Billy Meier said, hey, that's being done and some of us don't believe a word of it. Back to the drawningboard for these ETs.

In this manner, a true skeptic can understand and accomodate both the mass of supportive evidence that Meier's contacts are real, and the seemingly negative evidence. He doesn't have to be improperly selective and just choose the one and reject the other.

Well, I guess you're really addressing the true skeptic, such a person is inclined to reject anything dealing with ufology anyway. But there are those very much intriqued by the UFO phenomenon. Those persons stand a chance being caught up by the Meier information without realising all the multitude of factors in the case or the possible outcomes. I think those people need to be protected Jim.

Originally posted by MANNYP4
Note: I just saw Terrax’s post and that is exactly what I wanted to write, oh well I couldn’t have expressed it better myself, anyway here is my post!

Don't worry about it Manny. You express yourself adequately and what you point out comes across.

i find it stunning and staggering to the ignorance that some people have about questioning the authenticity of the billy meier case. Mostly the people who say hes a hoax or a fraud tell me this. Why has billy meier been a target of 21 assasination attempts, what reason/explainations do you have that states billy is a fraud/hoax, what material on behalf of billy meiers photos or physical evidence has been legitemately and beyond a reasonable doubt proven fake. Lets go back to the photos for a minute here...

Billy Meiers photos looks too good to be true. If he was truly faking it then how could he possibly faking it when the photos went through several photo analysists that has 20+ years of experience in their fields say that its not fake. In continuing their evaluation of the photos they went to as far as using sophisticated equipment that would cost millions of dollars to purchase and even need special clearance to even access them. How would a swiss farmer that barely gets by with the bills be able to even think of machines like these. Please note that the majority of the photos were taken in the 70's. Correct me if im wrong but wasnt billy meier stressed because of people were trying to kidnap his children. Why would a man go so far if he was lying.

the piece of rock/material he recieved from the pleidians. It went through the top researchers of science and physics and so forth. They all agreed that they found metals/coumpounds they never even seen nor recorded on the periodic chart. They were asked a hetoricle(i think its the way its spelt) question to how much would it cost to reproduce this, they said its just simply impossible on the bases of how it was formed and that materials was crystalized YET retained there own elements to themself. Again this was given back in the 70's. I think that billy meier is not a hoax. If he is then how the heck did he manage to pull these 2 main tasks off..

Another note i would like to mention. the recording of the illedged spacecraft. It was given to sound wave experts(dont know what their called..). They said that 18 waves of the sound was reproducable such as the dog barking in the background, trees wristling with the wind, etc... but the other 8 was unproducable....

keep in mind that this was made in the 70's and hes a farmer with next to nothing income. If he was a hoax wouldnt he have a financial interest or something that gives him a good enough reason to do it. If he was a hoax then why isnt there stilll no concrete proof of his claims are truly fake.

Also one more point i would like to bring up is the spacecraft video recording....The discussion of the illedged branch suddenly stopped moving when the spacecraft disappears. I'm sorry but i dont know how a spacecraft works with disappearing but i know this when they do they send a special wavelenght that slightly changes the atmosphere for a second OR they can bend a certain light that the eye cannot see. Alot of people failed to mention the OBVIOUS and most crucial detail is that the branch is STILL not moving even after the spacecraft reappears thus eliminating a big possibility that the "cutscenes" when the ship disappears and that it was recorded at a different time.

Sorry if this keeps getting extended...theres just so much to cover in so little time.

Another thing, regarding to the sceptism of his prophecies, the reason why he doesnt state the prophecies is simple. Prophecies are subject to change. i recall reading an interview where steve wendalls mentioned that billy ran off to god knows where and left a duatangs with the 911 prophecy back in 1970's!!!!Ofcourse sceptics will say that steve wendalls will say that hes working with billy to colaborate with the story.

if he was making this up then how would he be able to manage the whole story by himself AND have time with his farm...hes gotta be superman huh..and to think that people who studied him for 2 hours think hes a hoax...some people are ignorant

reply to post by Syndrah


Welcome to ATS, syndrah. Welcome also to the thread that never ends: The Billy Meier Case! The debate rages on and on here. It gets pretty ugly at times and seems to bring out the absolute worst in people. Just thought I'd give you fair warning. Billy Meier rivals the abortion issue in long standing debates round here.

Originally posted by Syndrah
Billy Meiers photos looks too good to be true. If he was truly faking it then how could he possibly faking it when the photos went through several photo analysists that has 20+ years of experience in their fields say that its not fake.

they don't look too good to be true. the carpet tack is the best example of this. if they were real, they'd be the equivalent of a space hoopy with missing hubcaps.

Originally posted by Syndrah
keep in mind that this was made in the 70's and hes a farmer with next to nothing income. If he was a hoax wouldnt he have a financial interest or something that gives him a good enough reason to do it. If he was a hoax then why isnt there stilll no concrete proof of his claims are truly fake.

he's made quite a business out of this, no? doesn't he have a "following" that donate a percentage of their money to him?

Originally posted by Syndrah
Another thing, regarding to the sceptism of his prophecies, the reason why he doesnt state the prophecies is simple. Prophecies are subject to change. i recall reading an interview where steve wendalls mentioned that billy ran off to god knows where and left a duatangs with the 911 prophecy back in 1970's!!!!Ofcourse sceptics will say that steve wendalls will say that hes working with billy to colaborate with the story.

then they aren't prophecies, they're guesses.

Originally posted by Syndrah
if he was making this up then how would he be able to manage the whole story by himself AND have time with his farm...hes gotta be superman huh..and to think that people who studied him for 2 hours think hes a hoax...some people are ignorant

he's completely isolated on the farm? there's no contact with anyone else? ever? he wasn't married? (to a woman who I recall reading now admits to the hoax - might be wrong there).


sadly, what once worked has been exposed in the digital age thanks to the internet and the millions of resources available to the countless number of individuals with enough time on their hands to scan thru images of old toy rayguns until they locate a toy that is frighteningly identical to the raygun held by an actual alien. what are the odds of a toy gun being the same as a real raygun, a garbage can lid being identical to a component of a real ufo, a carpet tack being identical to another component of a real ufo, a sears catalogue model being an exact clone, down to the clothing, of a real, live alien, a picture taken of real live dinosaurs (via time travel with aliens) being identical to a drawing in a book?


standing alone, perhaps, one might be swayed by his horrificly comical explanations for the many holes in his story but when you put them all together he appears to be nothing more than a charlatan who is way past his prime.

Crackeur, can you please post a photo of the "carpet tack" that Billy alledgedly used on the wedding cake ship? I did a Google search and all that came up were descriptions and no visual evidence or comparison side by side. Also, if you could post a photo of the Sears catalog model I would like to see that as well. Gracias

reply to post by VisionQuest


the carpet tack fell off and is lying in front of the space where it used to be:
thebiggestsecretpict.online.fr...


some stellar explanations of his "ufo"photos

thebiggestsecret.online.fr...



semjase is a sears model, meier has admitted that the picture he claimed was semjase was changed after someone found the model. he doesn't deny that the actual picture is from a sears catalogue and that another alien was on the dean martin show. his response is that the MIB tampered with the photo.

the timeline is odd on that. the images of semjase, the dean martin alien and the dinosaurs were all the real deal, per meier, until someone found the real source of his images. then, and only then, did Meier claim the MIB changed the pics to what was, according to Meier, a sears model, a dean martin actress and a drawing from a dinosaur book.

if you scroll back in this thread you'll see these things as well as the amazing work of our members who located the real raygun in a toy catalogue.

I think it a bit foolish to believe what Billy M and his croonies are spewing out.

There are pictures that have been 'improved' to look better.
I remember reading a ufo magazine a couple of years ago and they had gotten a original picture (perhaps) and they enhanced it and the strings were clearly visible.

And to think on it, how long have Billy M been doing this? 40 years?
And still there are people who fall for him.

I think there is a psychological explanation for his behaviour.
Perhaps he has seen something....

But the loss of his arm might have changed him alot from a psycological view.
I think he is delusional.