Billy Meier UFO Contact Hoax: Discussion

I always thought that if Billy Meier was so allegedly industrious in his attempts to hoax all these things, why hasn't that reflected on his bank account or standard of living or new house, new car, new wife(and mistresses) and all the other Earthly goodies that come along when you start cashing that big fat paycheque at the end of the con.

On the contrary, he appears to have continued to live off of his government issued cheque of 800 CHF or so throughout the 70s and 80s and 90s...in the same house and land he was in prior "coming clean" (the previous phrase is TM sleeper).
Not even a fancy prosthetic arm or a golden watch or a diamond necklace for his wife or bicycles for all of his kids, a new shed, a pool, stables with horses. Matter a fact he probably sank more into poverty while all the people around him, the so-called friends (FIGU and across the pond in USA) were milking every penny from Billy's unwanted fame.

But who am I to pass any kind of a judgment, whether it be pro or contra. I'm just a meat popsicle who has never met Billy, but then again neither have all the hordes of debunkers and doubters who have used second, third and n-th hand information and photos that have passed many hands, to draw their (hoax) conclusions.

There's a big fancy expensive gateway that's been built at the entrance to the cult's farm. There was a picture of it somewhere on here.

Originally posted by amigo
I always thought that if Billy Meier was so allegedly industrious in his attempts to hoax all these things, why hasn't that reflected on his bank account or standard of living or new house, new car, new wife(and mistresses) and all the other Earthly goodies that come along when you start cashing that big fat paycheque at the end of the con.

Hmm, Amigo. Check out the property where Meier's group is staying. Pictures are availible on his homepage. But, you think he's poor? Members have to pay a portion of there income next to the normal fees and other obligations. And he did have the money for lawyers when he was being sued (minimum 3 times that I could gather). No, I think there's at least some money there Amigo.

For everybody that say that we only see the 3er generations photos online, that we just read 3er hand information blah blah, where are those 1er generation photos that you saw? and different information? where?

Because if you do a comment like that I am going to assume that you can back that up with some different photos or something!!! Otherwise why keep saying that, when the same photos we are discussing are the same photos you see in all meier's sites.

1. TV models girls identified------ MIB did it.
2. same but Different size ufo----They have few sizes of the same one
3. Garbage part identified---------Aliens impulsed thoughts to manufacters.
4. Ufo moves like model --------- Aliens wants to confuse reality.
5. Time travel dino photos ------ From a painting but MIB did it.
5. Toy gun -------------------------It was because it was 600 years old.
6. Prophecies--------------------- I can only tell them after the event.
7. Pleiades can't support life---- They lied they are from a timeshift..
8. models found at his house ----- My children made them.
9. future San franciso earthquake- From a magazine but MIB did it.
10.Talmud of Jmmanuel & metal--- discovered my meier himself, lost

Everytime he got caught the excuses were getting more ridiculous by time.
So which are the evidence that people defending meier have? can you really look away from all those lame excuses? saying that we just call it a hoax for the fun of it, that we haven't see anything! For the love of god just pay attention to the excuses, there a lot more of them or let me guess meier is innocent in all and each of them right? Come on.

I am going to wait for the good 1er gen photos and 1er hand information people here will be showing us to demostrate from where their believe in meier is based from.

Originally posted by newinitiatio

As one incidence is said to have occured where a man committed suicide by the realisation that the plejarens were actually extraterrestrials from outer space.

Wow. *If* this is actually true, then I would have to say Billy Meier should be brought to justice for causing someones death due to this hoax. Things like this are why cults and their "leaders" are so dangerous.

Also, *if* it is true, was it foretold in a prophecy? If not, why not? And if so, why wasn't it stopped?

Thats why the protrators stop at labelling the meier case a cult, a hoax , a fraud, and continue laughing at some of the photos because it appears dodgy in their eyes without knowing exactly what the circumstantial reasons for why the wise plejaren extraterrestrials allowed their ships to be photographed by billy the way it has.

Oh yeah, the wise trashcan lid riding, broken down ship having, tree parking "extraterrestrials" . Oh, I just solved one of the mysteries!!!! They park in trees because junk keeps falling off their ships and they're calling for a tow! Billy gets to film them while their broken down, that's why they look all shoddy! Cheers for intergalactic jalopies!

Of course nothing is left to chance as people with enough gray matter between their ears can use a bit of their wisdom in figuring out why this was necessary and why such a highly developed extraterrestrials chose meier in the first place of all people on this earth.

Do any of the "highly developed" ET's from the Dean Martin show drive the tow craft? And are there any pictures of that? I would so love to see that.

Obviously imbeciles will continue to be imbeciles and disrupt their own chance to get to know the case for what it truly is by first collating all data for analysis before they sook about incongruencies in the pictures and stories, their urge to pass quick and rash judgements will not allow their tongues to be held at bay about.

What is this sooking and how does one do it? It sounds like it could be fun.

To get this far requires much effort

I would say to get this far requires really tall boots.

Originally posted by MANNYP4
For everybody that say that we only see the 3er generations photos online, that we just read 3er hand information blah blah, where are those 1er generation photos that you saw? and different information? where?

......

I am going to wait for the good 1er gen photos and 1er hand information people here will be showing us to demostrate from where their believe in meier is based from.

I suppose you are alluding here to my post so I'll bite the bate.

Obviously you aren't reading between the lines or getting the sarcasm through of what I wrote above. The gist of what I tried to say and what you missed to read was that in order to objectively (to whatever extent that's even possible, I personally doubt it is) evaluate any claim, one must truly go and investigate it for themself. That means physically going there and interacting with the environment (people, objects, events...)

Any other way you would be absorbing someone else's subjective opinion or their belief filtration system, and are (potentially) being robbed of the facts.
What a heck am I saying, you *are* being robbed of the facts, even if those facts are confirming what those people's opinion is, you should still go and find the facts out for yourself. Otherwise you let your guard down and you absorb something that has not been filtered by your own belief system.

I understand that fact finding missions are not possible for majority of people on this World, and thus we tend to believe the established channels for dissemination of (dis?)information. But simply subscribing to one or the other side's point of view without actually going to the source should not be called fact investigation or opinion forming process. And should definitely not be "be all end all" of any investigation. It is only our human arrogance and ego that drive us to that (dark) place of close mindedness from which it is hard to escape.

If I have learnt anything in my present experience is that information is always manipulated to polarize the sides and create conflicting point of views - in any situation. That polarization occupies "the masses" because they go into endless bickering (or Holy wars at times ) without ever realizing or finding the truth or the facts of the matter at hand.

Oh, and you will be waiting a long time for those 1st generation items you mention if you expect others to bring them to you on a golden platter... I fear if they do bring them they will be spoiled goods, yet you will still "eat" them regardless.

Originally posted by amigo
Oh, and you will be waiting a long time for those 1st generation items you mention if you expect others to bring them to you on a golden platter... I fear if they do bring them they will be spoiled goods, yet you will still "eat" them regardless.

The problem is that there are no 1st generation photographs (or negatives for that matter) according to the outspoken supporters of this case and Meier himself. That in itself is highly unusual since it is claimed Meier took over a 1000 pictures and seemingly 'lost' them all. Secondly when the supporters of the case speak about the analysis that has been done on the photographs and where the analist wasn't able to detect fraud it still raises the question if an original was examined and not a 3rd or 4th generation copy which tends to be useless. (Ask a specialist.)
Lastly, I don't think it's the responsibility of the interested reader is to go to Meier's place and ask 'politely' for an original. Presenting the case and any evidence that goes along with it is the responsibility of Meier and those that have been authorised to publicly support him. Ironicly we find that the latter group also leaves a lot to be desired since the excuses Meier brings forth permeate through them as well.

Originally posted by TerraX
The problem is that there are no 1st generation photographs (or negatives for that matter) according to the outspoken supporters of this case and Meier himself. That in itself is highly unusual since it is claimed Meier took over a 1000 pictures and seemingly 'lost' them all. Secondly when the supporters of the case speak about the analysis that has been done on the photographs and where the analist wasn't able to detect fraud it still raises the question if an original was examined and not a 3rd or 4th generation copy which tends to be useless. (Ask a specialist.)
Lastly, I don't think it's the responsibility of the interested reader is to go to Meier's place and ask 'politely' for an original. Presenting the case and any evidence that goes along with it is the responsibility of Meier and those that have been authorised to publicly support him. Ironicly we find that the latter group also leaves a lot to be desired since the excuses Meier brings forth permeate through them as well.

I suppose it is my fault that I did not state in my previous response that I was talking about any case not just Billy Meier's. But then I guess I run into a problem of being slightly off topic.

I do not believe that onus should just be on first hand experiencers to have to prove what they have witnessed. Obviously situation will polarize to those who believe and those who do not. But either sides should seek answers for themselves before closing the chapter and calling something true or not. And these answers should be acquired through their own personal investigation from those first hand experiencers, rather than believing what "experts" say or write, no matter how renown or credible they are.

Again, it would be logistically impossible for everyone to converge, in this case, onto poor old Billy at the same time, or at all. But that does not mean that we should just accept what someone else said or wrote based on what they claim Billy told them.

This is the same argument when it comes to our Media. Many people will blindly believe what the "box" tells them or what's written in the papers because it has been made a consensus that what the Media tells us must be the truth - because that's what their business is.
In reality they never potray facts but rather colour the stories with their own twists, agendas and points of view. So in turn they form our opinion prior to us ever being able to do so ourselves.

Here's a funny and an extreme example of the above. You and I come up with a prank where we'd bury couple of copies of National Enquirer in a sealed chest and hope that those who open it 1000 years from now will think that is how the world really was in the past.
Let's now rewind 4000 years and look at some cuneiform tablets in the desert. Do they really talk about real things or did they serve us with our own prank? I guess we don't know but our "experts" tell us it's real, although they do not know any better than we do (they were not there 4000 years ago either).

I guess it's an issue of objectivity but such concept does not exist in my humble opinion, and I have already digressed enough

Originally posted by amigo
I do not believe that onus should just be on first hand experiencers to have to prove what they have witnessed.

Sure, as long as the first-hand experiencers don't expect anyone to believe them.

....these answers should be acquired through their own personal investigation from those first hand experiencers, rather than believing what "experts" say or write, no matter how renown or credible they are.

Why? No matter what Meier and his followers would have people believe, at its core it's a photographic case. Photographs are objective evidence. It they're fake, it's illogical to waste time verifying other aspects of the case. But oh yeah, all the questionable photographic evidence has been tampered with or was presented in an intentionally ambiguous manner...right.

just a way out there thought

what if billy was telling the truth about his visits
but thought the world would believe him better if he had photos
but the aliens refused this
so he faked the photos, trying to get the world to believe

could it be possible

Originally posted by chickenfeet
just a way out there thought

what if billy was telling the truth about his visits
but thought the world would believe him better if he had photos
but the aliens refused this
so he faked the photos, trying to get the world to believe

could it be possible

But it would still make him a liar and a fraud, right? Lying isn't a very good way to convince people you're being truthful.

Originally posted by amigo
I do not believe that onus should just be on first hand experiencers to have to prove what they have witnessed. Obviously situation will polarize to those who believe and those who do not. But either sides should seek answers for themselves before closing the chapter and calling something true or not. And these answers should be acquired through their own personal investigation from those first hand experiencers, rather than believing what "experts" say or write, no matter how renown or credible they are.

Perhaps the ultimate irony is that there are no "experts", that goes for the more noteable ufologists as well. The first hand experiencers are probably the "experts" and there are plenty of tales when you dig in the books. Like you said, people can believe one tale and not the other. That's pretty normal. What's abnormal is that there are those people who claim their own experience is valid and everyone else is invalid. Meier belongs into that category. What does that tell you?

Again, it would be logistically impossible for everyone to converge, in this case, onto poor old Billy at the same time, or at all. But that does not mean that we should just accept what someone else said or wrote based on what they claim Billy told them.

The thing is, and supporters of the case are correct on this one, Meier sent out a massive ammount of information. In fact so much that you can see his opinion (or that of his alleged ET contacts) on practically every matter. The stuff Meier claimed can be easily verified. Have a look at some of the stuff he wrote. I'd be interested to think if you still regard him as 'poor old Billy'. The guy went over many persons backs with ease.

Originally posted by chickenfeet
just a way out there thought
what if billy was telling the truth about his visits
but thought the world would believe him better if he had photos
but the aliens refused this
so he faked the photos, trying to get the world to believe
could it be possible

Sure it could be possible. Some people think Meier had some genuine experiences way back but after that ended he invented the rest.

reply to post by Dulcimer


They probably did that because perhaps it was 600 years ago when their civilization realized the futility of war and violence which led to the destruction of all weapons. It would only be natural to have a few kept as "antique" items for history lessons i suppose but this would explain why they took it away from billy when he chose to shoot the tree.....

haha LOL! this guys a legend. wish i could make money out of my old toys XD

lol!!!!

Looks like a baby patato gun!

Not Billy Meier, but the people who still believe him proves me why there is and will be still religion wars in 2008. Not just because of blind belief, but because it is much more dangerous when you know that this belief will bring you power and money...

[edit on 22-1-2008 by commodore64]

Originally posted by commodore64

Not Billy Meier, but the people who still believe him proves me why there is and will be still religion wars in 2008. Not just because of blind belief, but because it is much more dangerous when you know that this belief will bring you power and money...

I am not sure I am following your train of thought here commodore64.

The Billy Meier story was true. The pictures were genuine of extraterrestrial spacecraft and Billy met with real extraterrestrials who took him on several trips into outer space.

The story and the pictures have become contaminated over the years by skillful disinformation artists at the behest of the U.S. Government, some of whom continue to post anti-Billy Meier material here on ATS.

I believe the Billy Meier story and have said so many times.

Now my question is how does my belief in the Billy Meier story turn into a religious war in 2008?

Another question is how can I turn my personal belief in the Billy Meier story into power and money? I am a little short of both these days.

Thanks for the post.

Originally posted by johnlear
The story and the pictures have become contaminated over the years by skillful disinformation artists at the behest of the U.S. Government, some of whom continue to post anti-Billy Meier material here on ATS.

I agree 100% with John. What I also find funny is how a certain poster here at ATS is not heard from in forever, but as soon as a Billy Meier thread pops up, he reappears miraculously. I do have respect for this member, but I find his obsession with proving the Billy Meier case false very suspicious.

Peace

reply to post by johnlear


Mr. Lear, how could you believe both Meier and sleeper at the same time? According to Meier, sleeper is a fraud.