Billy Meier UFO Contact Hoax: Discussion

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posted on Apr, 16 2007 @ 12:28 PM
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Can I ask a simple question?

What happened to this laser gun weapon? Does it still exist?




posted on Apr, 16 2007 @ 12:38 PM
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According to Meier, the gun, which was a 600 year-old "antique" weapon, was taken back by them after Meier had time to plug a hole in the tree with it. Convenient, eh? Just when we think we could get our hands on some convincing (to say nothing of powerful) proof, well, it too...disappears. And then - understandably - everyone comes down on Meier's head for trying to pass off some silly looking thing as a real laser gun and, heck, a half-visible space-babe in a gold foil suit? Gimme a break!

And then we're off and running, either defending or attacking, etc.

But this one of things that I consider...speculative, i.e. I can't prove it, just offer the information.

MH
www.theyfly.com



posted on Apr, 16 2007 @ 05:06 PM
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I read a book on Billy a couple years ago.I think I read that Shirley Mclain (sp?) has visited Billy, is this true Mr. Horn?Also The book stated that Billy Has one arm and alot of work would be involved for a one armed man to hoax these photos and videos.As I stated earlier I once believed Billys claims ,but some of the photos are really "out there" so to speak.But then again the CIA can make anyone look like a horses arse.Thanks to Mr. Lear AND to you Mr.Horn for shedding some light on this.
edit:spelling



[edit on 16-4-2007 by crowpruitt]



posted on Apr, 16 2007 @ 05:50 PM
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Michael12,

Can you please confirm me that this datas entered in this table are correct and non of them accidently switched between the 2 planets:

www.billymeier.com...

I am only interessted in this 4 datas:

Equatorial diameter
Densitiy
Surface gravitation
Escape velocity

(Why is the most importand data, the mass of the planet, missing in this table?)

Also I would like to know if Erra is equal in shaped like the earth:


Shape
Main article: Figure of the Earth
The Earth's shape is very close to an oblate spheroid—a rounded shape with a bulge around the equator—although the precise shape (the geoid) varies from this by up to 100 metres (327 ft).[15]


en.wikipedia.org...

thank you.

edit: Added escape velocity. Forgot that importand one.


[edit on 16-4-2007 by g210b]



posted on Apr, 16 2007 @ 07:53 PM
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Originally posted by Dulcimer
Can I ask a simple question?

What happened to this laser gun weapon? Does it still exist?



I would say it fits in with the time the photo was taken. Utter complete retro throwback handcannon with an excited dogs pink lipstick on the end.

If you wonder if the gun still exists dont worry about such things i will get my son to make you one when he goes to school tommorow.



posted on Apr, 16 2007 @ 08:20 PM
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Originally posted by h3akalee

I would say it fits in with the time the photo was taken. Utter complete retro throwback handcannon with an excited dogs pink lipstick on the end.

If you wonder if the gun still exists dont worry about such things i will get my son to make you one when he goes to school tommorow.





Very interesting comment H3akalee and we appreciate your post but actually, at this point, we were trying to weed out the less informed.

There is a possibility that you were serious and that your son does attend some kind of government laser gun school so I am going to take you up on your offer. Please have you son make an identical gun to the Billy Meier one and then send it to me at:

1414 No. Hollywood Blvd.
Las Vegas, NV 89110

I will do the testing (I had both an FFL and Class 3 ATFE license, currently hold a permit to store high explosives, and have attended many weapons use schools.) so there should be no question about my expertise. Basically I will be testing the weapon you send to see if it will make a perfectly round hole through a tree trunk.

Thanks again.



posted on Apr, 16 2007 @ 08:23 PM
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Originally posted by ConspiracyNut23

An assassin can fire an ice bullet to kill someone without leaving a trace.

busted

The bullet was simply too brittle to be used.

(This myth was revisted in episode 14 and it was busted again.)

mythbustersresults.com...



An explosion from the tradition black powder projectile propellent would indeed shatter an ice bullet.

I don't know If I will get into trouble for telling you this but, has anyone considered that Ice bullet can be fired by highly compressed air like of an bb air gun.

The range of the ice bullet would be affected by the amount of compressed air being released into barrel, it would generally be short range, but the ice bullet would retain its shape and strength provided that the air preasue is not too extreme.

In this way the ice bullet would have less kinetic energy then that of a normal bullet but it can still kill unarmored targets and it would be very difficult to find the "bullet".

-----------------------------

As for Billy Meier's Ray Gun, I think he may have bought this one from a toy store.

I do believe that aliens may have ray guns, just not Billy Meier's one.

[edit on 16-4-2007 by ixiy]



posted on Apr, 16 2007 @ 08:32 PM
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I was just joking Mr Lear no harm intended.

However as for things such as ice bullets how about lethel toxins In wax capsules in the end of umbrellas on london bridge being poked into mens buttocks. Only to melt away with body's natural heat levels. I have seen this such butt in a freezing unit.

However this is totally of topic and i am sorry for this but as this thread in my opinion is so light i just decided to add my most bizzare experiance.

And make someone smile like that jetson laser pistol made me smile.


Only thing i can say on a final note is maybe ray guns do exist maybe they dont maybe this is a ray gun maybe not. But heavens above if it makes me laugh when i see it then it just does not compute in my simple mind that it could cause any form of death or injury sorry.


Maybe if you dropped it from the top of the empire state building it could cause death or injury. Maybe not!
[edit on 16-4-2007 by h3akalee]

[edit on 16-4-2007 by h3akalee]



posted on Apr, 16 2007 @ 08:32 PM
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Originally posted by ixiy

As for Billy Meier's Ray Gun, I think he may have bought this one from a toy store.

I do believe that aliens may have ray guns, just not Billy Meier's one.

[edit on 16-4-2007 by ixiy]





Interesting commnet ixiy and thanks for the post. On what do you base your comment that the gun held by Billy Meier was not a real ray gun? Please post a list of real ray guns that you have held and fired and what planet or solar system they came from so we can evaluate your expertise in this matter. Any photos would be appreciated. Thanks.



posted on Apr, 16 2007 @ 09:14 PM
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Originally posted by h3akalee
However as for things such as ice bullets how about lethel toxins In wax capsules in the end of umbrellas on london bridge being poked into mens buttocks. Only to melt away with body's natural heat levels. I have seen this such butt in a freezing unit.


There was a case where someone was thought to have been assinated by poison being injected into the leg of the victim from the tip of a umbrella.
I don't have the source but I read an article about it. However I don't think they need a wax capsule to contain the toxin


Originally posted by johnlear
Interesting commnet ixiy and thanks for the post. On what do you base your comment that the gun held by Billy Meier was not a real ray gun? Please post a list of real ray guns that you have held and fired and what planet or solar system they came from so we can evaluate your expertise in this matter. Any photos would be appreciated. Thanks.


I have never fired a ray gun nor do I have any expertise in that area. I admit that I would not know what a real alien ray gun would look like if I came across one.

My opinion is base on toy ray guns made for children that I have seen in the market. Like the ones in the Movie "Mars Attacks" as well. I am sharing my personal opinion and views of ray gun in the photo, not putting it as a fact, evidence, an expert opinions or to try and influence anyone else view on this matter.

You seem to be very defendsive of Billy Meier's claims, have you seen and fired a real alien ray gun, If you did, can you scatch out the one used so that we can compare it to Billy Meier's one.

Please do share your expert or laymans view with us.



posted on Apr, 16 2007 @ 09:22 PM
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Hi crowpruitt,

It's true that Meier has only one arm/hand and that for him to have produced over 1,200 clear, daytime UFO photos, 8 films, 1 video, several sound recordings, a number of metal alloy samples (all of which remain irreproducible to this day) would be quite a feat. BTW, let me thorow this in here. Not only did the late Wally gentleman, a special effects director on 2001, effectively authenticate Meier's photos, I personally showed the photos and films to the special effects company that won the Academy Award for Independence Day. I showed them one film segment and told them that the skeptics (at CFI-West/IIG) had said that it was a model with pin scratching to produce the TWO lights that alternately flash in broad daylight from the ship.

They literally laughed out loud and said that they, "...know models and that's not a model!" When I asked them if they could duplicate the films they said, "If we could duplicate them, we'd have to go to CGI to do it."

Add to that the 24,000+ pages of typed information, a good body of which contains specific, accurate propphetic information, and the likelihood of a hoax becomes ever more remote, if even possible. It should also be mentioned that, in the past 43 years that he has been public with his information and evidence, not one person has come forward to even claim participation in a hoax, let alone over any proof of one.

I should add that when one reads Gary Kinder's account in his book, Light Years, of the interviews he conducted with Mr. and Mrs. Bar, the owners of the photo shop that processed virtually all of Meier's film/movie footage, it becomes clear that not only did Meier never process ANY of his own film but as the developed photos and films came back to them (from the labs to which they were sent) they had to adjust to the shock of what they were seeing. And they sold Meier all of his equipment - which only consisted of cameras, tripod and film - so they knew that he possessed neither a darkroom, enlarger or any supplies with which to develop the films himself.

The details of the investigation, some 1,300 pages as I mentioned, present a truly overwhelming situation, one that defies not only the imagination but hoaxing. In fact, the two alternatives we seem to be faced with in the Meier case are that he's either a kind of genius in perhaps 20 different disciplines, including sciences and technologies, or that he's - a real contactee. For some reason that still escapes me, the skeptics seem to imply the former rather than the latter, which quite possibly would flatter Meier, as well as amuse him.

As for the questions regarding the alleged Plejaren planet, I don't have any more information than what was culled from the book and I'm not qualified to comment on the possible accuracy of the information.

And I do look forward to John's testing of any and all ray guns!

Best,

MH
www.thefly.com



posted on Apr, 16 2007 @ 09:25 PM
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The idea of it was this a man walked over london bridge a russian man. Another man poked him in the ass with his umbrella the other mans identity is unknown the russian unknown to him had been implanted with the wax pellet. But at the time just beleived he had been prodded. A few x amount of minutes later the wax melted the russian died.

His butt is in a freezer unit in Porton Down.

That is all






[edit on 16-4-2007 by h3akalee]



posted on Apr, 17 2007 @ 01:31 AM
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Originally posted by Michael12
Hi crowpruitt,

It's true that Meier has only one arm/hand and that for him to have produced over 1,200 clear, daytime UFO photos, 8 films, 1 video, several sound recordings, a number of metal alloy samples (all of which remain irreproducible to this day) would be quite a feat. BTW, let me thorow this in here. Not only did the late Wally gentleman, a special effects director on 2001, effectively authenticate Meier's photos, I personally showed the photos and films to the special effects company that won the Academy Award for Independence Day. I showed them one film segment and told them that the skeptics (at CFI-West/IIG) had said that it was a model with pin scratching to produce the TWO lights that alternately flash in broad daylight from the ship.

They literally laughed out loud and said that they, "...know models and that's not a model!" When I asked them if they could duplicate the films they said, "If we could duplicate them, we'd have to go to CGI to do it."

Add to that the 24,000+ pages of typed information, a good body of which contains specific, accurate propphetic information, and the likelihood of a hoax becomes ever more remote, if even possible. It should also be mentioned that, in the past 43 years that he has been public with his information and evidence, not one person has come forward to even claim participation in a hoax, let alone over any proof of one.


howdy Mr. Horn... thanks for your insights on this subject. Im extremely new to this ufology thing so I first discovered the Billy Meier story when you were on C2C recently. Because I went and researched a bit on the web and could not find, IMO, suitable proof that he was a hoaxer I started this thread on ATS last month:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

honestly, im still trying to keep an open mind about Mr. Meier's claims but my thread was pretty much a unanimous debunking. What became the "smoking gun" for everyone was the evidence that a trashlid was found in Meier's garage which was identical to the base of the wedding cake ufo. could this be a CIA discredit?

thebiggestsecret.online.fr...

thx again for taking the time.. 11


[edit on 17-4-2007 by kronos11]



posted on Apr, 17 2007 @ 10:09 AM
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Originally posted by kronos11
could this be a CIA discredit?


CIA or whoever.........I believe discrediting evidence was fabricated and planted. Some of those pictures are so ridiculous looking I don't think anyone with an IQ of ten would even try to pass them off.

Peace



posted on Apr, 17 2007 @ 10:58 AM
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Originally posted by gtirlad2
seriously billy miyer is a joke

I assume you mean Billy Meier?

I don't believe this is entirely true. I think something genuine was going on early on and then a lot of people jumped on the bandwagon because they figured they could make money with it.

There are some early 8mm movies and other footage that is pretty interesting, particularly a shot of one beamship flying around a tree and the way the tree reacted.

Early on the material though really looked pretty genuine to me, but after that I don't know if Billy Meier himself sold out or just so many people capitalized on his name that real information became impossible to find.



posted on Apr, 17 2007 @ 11:16 AM
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Hi kronos11,

Thanks for your questions re the Wedding Cake UFO (WCUFO). This is one of the most controversial parts of the case, which actually can be "figured out" as far as the likelihood of a hoax goes.

The garbage can lid theory, as well as other aspects in question, are covered here:

www.tjresearch.info...
gaiaguys.net...&460,1.htm
www.theyfly.com...
www.billymeier.com...

And do note that the lid of the can is plastic and that the WCUFO is (also according to a metallurgist) metal. It has something like 100 jewel/crystal-like objects on its surface, as well as the globes and textured area. Claims that this is an assembly of household objects fall apart completely when one looks at the size of the proposed objects in relation to each other and to the ship as a whole. This is the craft that the metallurgist said would cost about $25,000 to reproduce, aback in about 1980.

It should also be mentioned that Meier took 63 photos of the WCUFO, an enormous number of a single craft, which would challenge the skills of the world's best special effects/model makers to accomplish - even today.

One other fascinating bit of info, when the investigators brought a recording of the sounds generated by the WCUFO to a sound recording engineer, he detected something like 32 different, simultaneously occurring, frequently shifting frequencies. In the original film on the case, Contact (about 1982) the engineer not only describes the unique nature of the sounds but when asked how they could be produced, he begins to illustrate a top view of a circular object with a bunch of globe-like objects around it - and he had never seen the photos of the WCUFO!

Add to all this the comments by the forestry experts and, well, it appears that the skeptics didn't really consider all the evidence and accompanying factors, to say the least.

Regarding claims that Meier capitalized financially on all this, I can't say that it's true. Meier has been the target of 21 (documented) assassination attempts (I've personally spoken to witnesses to about 12 of the) so he doesn't give public lectures, interviews, etc. and is fairly reclusive. His Swiss group, FIGU, is a true non-profit one, operating under strict Swiss laws, and open its books every year for examination. They are involved in publishing Meier's various writings, his (42) books, doing charity work and disseminating their info without going around trying to recruit or missionize anyone. They also sustain themselves through internal donations of time and money and some from the outside, as well as from sales of the FIGU products, which goes back into publishing them.

It should also be said that with all of the freely available info on the case, no one has to buy anything to begin to make a reasoned determination of its authenticity.

The property is in a rugged, high maintenance rural environment in Switzerland and Meier and his second wife also care for their 10-year old brain-damaged daughter, as well as all the other chores in their life. No one there is driving a Rolls Royce (and there's no sex cult going on either, just in case anyone's wondering). Of course, no one has to take my word for it but it's not fair to mischaracterize people without real evidence.

Best,

MH
www.theyfly.com



posted on Apr, 17 2007 @ 11:48 AM
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Originally posted by Michael12
This is the craft that the metallurgist said would cost about $25,000 to reproduce, aback in about 1980.


What "horse hockey" that is.....

How does a metallurgist estimate anything from a photo of objects that have a metallic appearance? The only conclusion that can be arrived at, given the circumstances, is "yup, looks shiny and smooth like metal".



posted on Apr, 17 2007 @ 12:18 PM
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one rolls copper foil.......$8.95(www.glassmart.com...)

one willing participant......six pack of beer


one ridiculously fake toy "raygun".........$9.99 (on ebay)
sample: cgi.ebay.com... (I know it isn't the same but it looks more realistic)

one camera, with film.....$150.


pictures of an alien's arm holding a gun......use..I mean priceless.


If you went and wrappped a person up in foil and gave them a toy gun and photographed them and posted it on the internet today, that person would be as famously mocked as the star wars kid.



posted on Apr, 17 2007 @ 12:36 PM
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Re the metallurgist, the investigators brought the photos of the WCUFO to a metallurgist to see if they could get a replica made, as they did when they went to MGM for the model that used to try to duplicate some of Meier's photos. It was the opinion of the metallurgist that silver, among other metals, as well as perhaps some gems/crystals, would have to be used for the closest approximation. Based on the estimated size of the craft in front of the house (there were actually three different sized craft photogrpahed) at about 10' in diameter, the cost estimate in time and materials was given.

Of course, if anyone can reproduce it more cheaply now it would be interesting. For the record, photographer, model maker and miniature tree cultivator, Jeff Ritzmann, failed to do so despite his claims that he could. Interestingly, he also failed to produce ONE photo of his model UFO next to one of his miniature trees to prove the point that he'd made for well over a year, i.e. that Meier had used such models in making his photos, such as appear here:

www.tjresearch.info...

BTW, I think most of us have moved past the tin foil and toy gun arguments but for anyone who's still a proponent of them, now that you've identified how easily the required parts are to acquire, perhaps you'll assemble them and effectively duplicate Meier's evidence (from 25 years ago). Be a sport though and use...one hand!

MH
www.theyfly.com



posted on Apr, 17 2007 @ 12:40 PM
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Originally posted by Michael12
Be a sport though and use...one hand!


is it not possible that the individual he wrapped in foil helped?
is it not possible that he had someone else help him wrap the foil, build the phony saucers etc?

falling back on the one arm is a pretty lame attempt at deflecting attention away from the horrifically lame "evidence"

want me to use one hand to flip thru a catalogue and locate a picture of an "alien?"





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