Billy Meier UFO Contact Hoax: Discussion

the "gun" actually looks like it is several components wrapped in tinfoil and pieced together. Like a drill or blowdryer with cardboard used to make it appear "boxy" and the foiled up.

Take a look at the "gun" shaft. it points upward on a slight angle, presumably from pressure being made from that arm brace thingy. The gold foil clad "alien" seems tall in the picture which leads me to believe that either this race of aliens is facing an enemy far taller than they are and find it easier to aim for the crotch and get a kill shot thanks to the angle on the shaft, they tend to use this weapon for shooting monkeys out of trees or the "gun" was fabricated and the glue or other adhesive used to put it together wasn't holding against the pressure of that arm brace thingy.

Regardless what that "ray gun" looks like, much is learned from the fact that these aliens still pack weapons. Apparently, the aliens haven't advanced beyond violence. Maybe the photo was intended as a not so subtle warning.

Also, it may have helped a little more to convince people if the "gun" had been photographed, better yet filmed, as it fired off a ray at some target and the effect on the target. I suppose some people would still not be convinced because some people will never be convinced until they can handle the weapon in their own hands and personally blast a hole in the side of a barn.

Originally posted by Gazrok
Mocking aside, let's discuss...

Let's take this pic of the "wedding cake" UFO for example.
Now, without even getting into why the base of this "craft" exactly resembles a trash can lid like others found at Billy's, let's examine the photo.

Yeah, I don't think I would waste what little time I have left on earth defending this photo. There is just not enough detail to make any intelligent comment. However I will say that particular craft that you say looks like a trash can lid is my favorite of all the craft that Meiers took pictures of. I have always marveled at the people who fantasize that Billy Meier toiled away at night building this 'wedding cake'.

Seems to me, another opinion is needed who was closer to the scene (Meier's home) at the time, ie Ret USAF Col. Wendelle Stevens.
In my opinion great thoughts relating to the subject. Just seems Wendelle Stevens can add some depth to it all if he could be found for ATS comment.
Oh, btw, when I suggested plastic on the laser gun casing, I want to add..were Mr Meier's Alien friends here long-long ago.

Dallas

edit: sent Mr Steven's an email

[edit on 20-4-2007 by Dallas]

I find it unlikely that hand-held weapons from other planets would necessarily be in the familiar earthly "pistol" shape. I don't see that design having any universal attributes that would influence other distant, advanced cultures to design their hand-held weapons coincidentally like ours happen to look.

Know what I mean? Their alleged craft don't look like Oldsmobiles, so why does that thing look so terrestrial?

John, why is there a red plastic tip on the gun. Why red and why plastic? Why would a ray gun have just a low tech trigger and no low tech controls or even high tech controls with little lights? John why continue to defend things just because you don't want to give an inch in fears that "we" will take a mile?

I could pick up a rock and claim its the exact rock a caveman used to whack the head of his "wife". I could also say theres no way you can prove its not a rock used by a caveman as you weren't there to know.

The body of the gun looks like an uzi. www.costumesinc.com...

Originally posted by MrPenny
Next week we'll discuss Emporer Ming and his plans to thwart Buck Rogers.

That would be Flash Gordon. Buck Rogers is a fictional character, while Flash Gordon was a real person (whose actual name was Michael Gordon) who belonged to America's top-secret Space Corps and fought off Ming the Merciless when he joined forces with Adolf Hitler during World War II.

The ray gun in the picture is obviously not a U.S. issue ray gun (RG-246X), as the American models were much smaller and more streamlined. Near the end of 1944, it was determined that ray guns were too ineffective for continued use. They had to be held almost completely still to be effective, as the power of the beam decreased proportionately with the speed of the sweep. They were also found to be essentially useless on highly reflective surfaces.

For additional information, reference: Ray Gun Effectiveness, Analysis and Report, U.S. Army Dept. of Science, 13 Sept. 1944, available under the Freedom of Information Act.

Originally posted by SuicideVirus
[The ray gun in the picture is obviously not a U.S. issue ray gun (RG-246X), as the American models were much smaller and more streamlined.

Finally, someone with some expertise.....or at least a finely tuned sense of parody.

Billy should have got these guys to make his props...

www.bobsbits.tv...

Originally posted by gtirlad2
seriously billy miyer is a joke

His footage is no joke. The Japanese actually made a feature length film out of it entitled "Beamships", which was released to showcase the pinnacle of evolution of human aeronaughtic technology.

This whole business with the toy gun was some sort of prop that was built by an outside influence to try and discredit the man. The supposed Aliens that he had contact with were German Intelligence Agents (fleeing Nazi's) from South America on Recon who were simply trying to fool him. Next time try and examine things a little bit more closely before passing judgement.

Hello ATS
I have been quietly reading this thread, and most of the discusion here interested me. I find it quite profound that the only serious poster are the ones defending the possible validity of the pictures. All the nay sayers resort to pot shots, jokes and ridicule.

I first found Billy Meiers photos through You Tube and boy was I hooked. You see I have always had troubles understanding where and how, I and other humans really came from. We are all "taught" to accept the Bible without any misgivings. You accept a woman was created from Adams rib like blind sheep, yet bash, put down and turn into ranters at one persons story of the unexplained. Hmmm reminds me of a Bible story about a man trying to spread the word of God. They killed Him (I think?) I am by no means saying Billy is Jesus, just comparing his attempts of spreading word and again they shoot the messenger.

Billy Meier to me is very brave, to use up his whole life just to spread his findings. He does not care if you believe him or not, he has really nothing to prove. He was only asked to share. I agree he may have tried to backup some proof that he thought would give his word merit but the over all presentation is weight enough.

I have been reading and searching and am finally at peace with my soul. For I found what I needed (you may not agree, and that is fine) and Billy helped me. My life is happier, I wakeup smiling and if that is what Billy is sharing then I am listening. I don't need for you nay sayers to understand, as long as I do is what is important.

So take my advice read it all through of what Billy is trying to tell you, move past the pictures, proof and such. Understand the message and stop shooting the messenge.

Rhain

Originally posted by Dulcimer
In comparison of known toy objects to the weapon in question:

Thanks you for a very prompt and informative post Dulcimer.

Beginning with your comparison of known toys to the weapon in question you presented no evidence that any of these toys were manufactured before the date of the photo or that Billy Meier had any access to them.

But even excluding that, the first photo you presented:





This is a Ray Rifle not a Ray gun. A rifle is distinguished from a gun by its length and construction. It has a stock instead of a grip. Some have barrel end grips such as the above. It requires 2 hands to fire. One hand to hold the stock and press the trigger. The other hand to hold up the barrel. There is no similarity between this picture and the Billy Meier Ray Gun with the possible exception that the barrel tip is red, it has a trigger and it has a horizontal drum at the top.

The second photo you presented:



Does not look like the Meiers ray gun. This Ray Gun has a flash suppressor at the end of the barrel which the Meier gun does no. It is also streamlined. The barrel length to grip length ratio is different the trigger is placed in a different angle. There is a drum on top but it is not yellow and it is a different size. The back of the gun is longer and more streamlined. Thee is no cord extending from the barrel.

There is no similarity between this gun and the Billy Meier Ray Gun with the possible exception that they both have barrels, both have triggers and both have drums on top although different colors and different sizes.

The Ray gun that you claim is circa 1936:



You claim it is ‘of similar form and appearance’.

The barrel end is not similar.

The breach end of the barrel is different.

No drum on top. That is a front sight guard.

Grip is different shape.

Am I to believe that this was the prototype for the Meier Ray Gun?

Trigger is guarded.

No cord extension from end of barrel.

You say that a simple EBAY search will show numerous toys that predate the alleged times the laser weapon photos were taken but you don’t show any examples with dates of manufacture..

You go on to say that ‘this gun’ is nearly identical in some aspects.

The red tip is extremely similar, down to the ribbing at one end and the raised sight.

All tips of all ray guns are red. Many are ribbed. That is a heat sync.

A raised sight? No that is a front sight. Raised sights are the kind you flip up to range elevation. All guns have front sights. Even earth made guns. You will certainly have to do better than that.

You go on to say:

The gun itself is similar in shape, with the boxy appearance.

Yes the gun does look similar in that it has a barrel and it has a grip. All guns have barrels and all guns have grips. A boxy appearance? Most guns are boxy.

Even this small amount of evidence is enough to question the claim of the object.

This is indeed a small amount of evidence. Very small. But I certainly appreciate the effort you went to so it is with much regret that I inform you that you cannot serve on our panel to determine whether or not a particular toy ray gun served as the model for the Billy Meier Ray gun.

And to be more specific you are Ray Gun Identification challenged because of the following:

Unable to distinguish differences in toy ray guns and Billy Meiers Ray Guns.

Cannot identify different triggers or trigger guards.

Used a ‘raised sight’ as evidence of identical copy. This is called a front sight and all weapons have them.

Called 1936 Ray Gun ‘of similar form and appearance’ although basic shape is different; barrel length ratio to grip length is different and model is stamped. Also:

Barrel design is different

Grip is different length.

Grip is at different angle

Barrel is not all red

Barrel is ribbed at breach end

No cord extending from top.

Trigger is guarded

No plastic or glass enclosure

No yellow cylinder on top of gun (that is a rear sight guard)

If the object is made up of several toys we may never find the exact replica.

With all due respect for your time and effort Dulcimer I don’t believe that what you said here is what you meant. We, or actually you, are not looking for a replica. We have a picture of the alleged replica, that is the Meier Ray Gun. What we, or actually you, are looking for is the prototype or original.

I apologize if I sound sexist here Dulcimer but maybe you ought to let the men handle the Ray Gun identification. There is a little more to it than fashion and color. Thanks.

I must say that I totally agree with John on this!

Debating this is pointless.

I merely wanted to point out that numerous toy objects share similarities with the weapon in question.

You can point out what is different and I can point out what is the same, but nobody will ever know because the object does not exist on this planet.

Some of the stuff kinda looks real when you see the actual spot, and how big it must have been.

Ever see these, part 3 is good. www.youtube.com...

Thanks for pointing out what cannot be observed from afar. First time for me seeing a five star rated clip.
Guess some subjects just need a wee-bit more clarity. Smooths out the debate, I feel.
Thanks

Dallas

Originally posted by Rhain
I have been quietly reading this thread, and most of the discusion here interested me. I find it quite profound that the only serious poster are the ones defending the possible validity of the pictures. All the nay sayers resort to pot shots, jokes and ridicule.

Then I'm afraid you haven't been reading closely. The defenders of the photos have frequently been asked to provide good, positive proof of their claims, and have consistently either refused, referred the questioners to dubious websites or prejudiced documentation of limited value, or accused the questioners of being ignorant and not having enough faith.

Any and all the Billy Meier controversies can be solved EASILY. A piece of cake! Provide some clear, unambiguous evidence that can be studied and reviewed by independent experts who will provide the evidence to everyone. Simple. In this thread, all anybody has to do is deliver the ray gun to any qualified, independent researcher, say a physicist at a local university. They can give it to some other researchers, and they can all look at it and see what the deal is.

This is incredibly EASY. How and why is it difficult at all?

For example, I have a bicycle sitting out on the patio of my apartment. And it would be EASY to prove that to anybody who I really wanted to believe that I actually have a bike on my patio. Photos, police reports, pieces of the bike. Hey, if you really needed proof, you could personally come to my apartment look at the bike and touch it and prove that it exists.

Why would Meier's ray gun be any different? Oh, no. Suddenly, the space men take the ray gun away and won't let us play with it, or the dog eats it, or whatever. Suddenly we all we have to rely on are a few inconsistent photos and some shaky testimony from people with an obvious agenda to push.

Maybe it's just me, but I just don't understand the logic behind the space men giving Meier a supposedly very important message, and then not making it ridiculously easy for him to convince everybody that it's completely real, because we first need to display our "faith," or "spiritual maturity." What a load.

THAT is where the B.S. line is drawn.

And the way I figure it, when dealing with matters of factual controversy, as long as I'm willing to reasonably consider all the available evidence, it's never better to be less critical of the evidence than more critical.

There's a word for people who accept strange stories without a lot of proof. They're called "suckers."

HAHAHA SuicideVirus i like you your one of the most interesting posters ihave come across since i joined ATS.

Keep up the good work.

There's a word for people who accept strange stories without a lot of proof. They're called "suckers."

This I agree with. I don't know what a raygun made by an Alien would look like, as I am sure no one else does either. This is just a small fraction of what has been presented though. His photos have been tested true, there has been creditable people involved. I have watched hours of videos from George Green:

video.google.com...

Also Randolph Winters:

video.google.com...
video.google.com...


I've started reading books and find myself constantly wanting to find more.

To label it all a hoax I wonder if you're seeing and hearing what I am. Alien behavior, items, crafts and such will always be way out stuff and strange, but that's what makes it alien to us.

Edited.
Why bother.



[edit on 21-4-2007 by WhiteWash]