Television is called programing for a reason. We have been conditioned to believe from a young age, that the minute you begin to question the government or authority you are unpatriotic, and you don't love your country. It is this fear that people buy into that prevents them from even considering different possibilities.

Something like 95% of the media is owned by four major corporations.
The Media tells us how we should think, feel, and act. They are the ones that decide what is acceptable and what isn't. How dare anyone begin to question things and think for themselves. People for the most part are products of their environment. The Media, which surrounds us is a major part of this environment.

Not to mention the more you become dependant on these sources - or any external source of information - the more dependant one becomes.

I would advocate a more holistic approach to studies in general - spending too much time glued to a television or it's polar opposite on any given topic and allowing other people to make the documentaries, recycle the same information and take an authoritiative stance on any position and issue is unbalance, unhealthy and akin to brainwashing - it's just asking for further trouble and confusion.

Regardless of position.

Free your mind!

Read a book that makes you feel good about something.

[edit on 12-4-2007 by GENERAL EYES]

Originally posted by dariousg
There you go bud, putting words in my mouth. Never said anything about feeble.

Sorry, not feeble... just "sheep", "zombies", "lazy", "scared", "slaves", "doormats", "autotron no-minds", etc.

Can you do me a favor and check to be sure I captured all the insulting references correctly? I don't want to put words into anyone's mouth:

Originally posted by AwakeAndAllSeeing
It's right to call people in that state of mind sheep, it's what they are.

Originally posted by LightWorker13
...you better thank god there are people like us truthseekers who are here speaking out against this, or the American people would be complete doormats for their government...

Originally posted by Truth4hire
Wake up kitten. Don´t make me take away that headset and scream into your naked ears...

Originally posted by piacenza
The truth is dead and buried it will never ever come out.
The fault its first of the people that are to lazy and scared to accept reality.

Originally posted by clearwater
How can people be so brainwashed?

Originally posted by kix
Do you have debt? Slave to the system.
You need medicare Slave to the system
You Have to have the lattest stuff and gadgets Slave my friend.

Originally posted by In nothing we trust
I just think that the autotron no-minds should be left alone to do nothing if they so choose. But they are screwing it up for the rest of us.

Originally posted by YIAWETA
The average American gobbles it up like a panda to bamboo. The realization of the facts about their own country is too much to swallow for the masses. They sustain the fantasy that is imposed upon them with denile.

Originally posted by Jotfish
I don't like how alot of people out there still aren't thinking outside the box. That they still think the government loves and worships the ground the citizens walk on.

The Truth Movement has two tactics at this point:

a) Prove to everyone that the government engineered 9/11.

or

b) Prove to themselves that everyone is blind and/or stupid.

They've failed to do the first and now have almost entirely fallen back onto the second.

It's actually the second step in the 5 stages of grief: ANGER.

This will not apply though to the people that debate this topic. There wouldn't be a debate if you or any other believer of the official story were feeble minded.

This is the third stage: BARGAINING.

As part of the bargaining process, I will agree with you regarding your position on testifying and classified material.

He's sayimg "watch Loose Change and believe the whole thing without double-checking facts and start evangelizing on things you don't really understand so you look like idiots." Good thing we're too smart to fall for that reverse psychology. Oops.

Originally posted by GwionX


All in all, life is too short to obsess over fantasy. If the events of 9/11 were indeed a government conspiracy, believe me, massive amounts of people would know it by now.

Massive amounts of people DO know it by now. Aren't you sick and tired of being wrong already?

Originally posted by GwionX
All indications I have seen show that .000129 percent of the US population is active in the 9/11 truth movement. In cities of about 200,000 or more you get about 100 ppl at a "truth convention" More people show up to see Barney on Ice.

Why do you keep making numbers up? Can you show us some proof?

I wonder why this idiot is even on a conspiracy site other than being a troll.


[edit on 12-4-2007 by NegativeBeef]

I challenge anyone to prove the official story of 911. We have done our job bringing you the proof to support our side, you bring proof to support yours.

But, of course, I have look at the proof that your side has to support the official story, Ive looked closely at the governments own story of the event, and you will find once you look at their proof too, that it quickly begins to unravel and defy logic.

So again, I challenge anyone to provide reasonable proof, and dont quote some government source that says "this is what happened" show some real tangible proof that 19 hijackers flew the planes into the buildings.

You cant because the proof was fabricated to begin with. Fake hijacker passport, fake confession tapes, fake cell phone calls, I mean it was a lie from the start.


[edit on 12-4-2007 by LightWorker13]

Originally posted by pavil

Originally posted by Griff
[As far as I am aware, in NAZI Germany, the citizens could buy anything they wanted and travel to any place they wanted. Would those citizens also be considered "free and living in a free country"? Didn't think so. Lie to yourself all you want, but we are far from being free.

Ummmm then you need to raise your awareness level of Nazi Germany IMO. After 1933 Germany was a one party state dictatorship. If you were a Jew, you werent a German citizen after 1935. Not all citizens in Germany under the Nazi's could buy anything they wanted and travel to any place they wanted. Don't claim that.

This is why no one can ever get anywhere in these discussions. When there is someone who is new to the topic and wants to learn about it, they end up with stories about hitler and the nazis. If you have to prove him/her wrong then just send a u2u.

Originally posted by AcesInTheHole
This is why no one can ever get anywhere in these discussions. When there is someone who is new to the topic and wants to learn about it, they end up with stories about hitler and the nazis. If you have to prove him/her wrong then just send a u2u.

No, those that are unaware of history need to be reminded of it. Lies and misrepresentations repeated often enough seem to become truth in this day and age. Doing it publicly hopefully sheds some awareness to others as well. I was not the one to bring up the point in the first place.

Back to the topic though.

Originally posted by LightWorker13
I challenge anyone to prove the official story of 911. We have done our job bringing you the proof to support our side

Say What? Done your job to bring proof to support your side? What Proof? A YouTube Video? YGBSM!

How about a true peer-reviewed study on ANY of the main points of this conspiracy theory.

The 9/11 conspiracy theories have NO proof to back them up. Only conjecture, hunches, and wishfull thinking--Buying into this smokescreen of cherry-picked half-truths is being veiled, and yet simutaneously emboldened by the truth leaders as traits of an open-mind, an amazing power of observation that is possessed by only a few of the sharpest minds ( the true believers).. when in actuality a closed mind is being produced.... The victim is so busy feeling special, rarely do they realize they have been duped.

Again, you guys give no proof of your own....

Well, since you seem to be unaware of it, lets talk about the sham called the hijackers passports. You dont wanna give me proof, so Ill give me your proof. Just to examine it logically, and dive into the details of the official story. Please read this till the end.

Did you know that not 1 but 2 passports were claimed to be found by the State Department? One at ground zero, one at the Pentagon, how convenient (not to mention the passports found at the london train bombings, all 4 of them).

So let me get this straight. We have a paper passport in the pants of a hijacker on a plane about to fly into the WTC. Everyone who was on that plane has one. Plane crashes, huge explosion, massive fireball, crashed metal, mangled bodies, wreckage, heat that supposedly melted structural steel, masses of bodies never to be found.

And miraculously, out of the ether....Poof! Out of all the passports to survive, a hijackers passport is found a flew blocks from ground zero; next to the body of former FBI John Oneil who quit because he knew the government got warnings and were doing nothing about it, and september 10 was hired to work in the WTC.

Mustve been an act of God.

Yet another act of God. In 2005, years later, the Pentagon puts out a report saying they had found another passport at the Pentagon with Flight 93. Let us examine this closely. Barely any wreckage of the plane was found. The only wreckage that survived could be picked up by hand. No bodies of any of the people on that were on that plane were found, not even the hijackers. But, again, a paper passport can survive, practically unscathed, that just insults the intelligence!

Now from these passports, within hours, they were able to get the names, pictures, affiliations and history, of 19 hijackers, when they had no idea it was gonna happen they said. Please, insult my intelligence some more.

And, as its comes out, did you know that out of the 19 supposed hi-jackers, at least 7 have reported themselves to be alive and well, and working for legitimate business's. In fact one guy, who goes by the name Abdullaziz Al-Amori, is actually a Flight Attendant for Saudi Airlines, and the day after 911, called the US embassy in Jeddah, Saudi Arabia, and asked "why am I being named a hijacker?"

Well, gee, I guess if passports can survive, they can parachute!!

It is utter nonsense. Its funny because when the State Department came out and said "look what we found, we found the passports of the hijackers, we got the proof!" people were like " oh they were right then, it was them damn arabs!"

Then it comes out it was a lie, the people were still alive, this was in the mainstream media for a short time. But when the SD was questioned about the fake passports, they just said "yea that was a mistake, were sorry" and the story just disappeared! Never mentioned again!!

Its ridiculous, and you cant tell me you didnt know or that Im making all this up, when a quick google search will show you all you need to know, nevermind doing your own investigating like I have. Its ridiculous, the official story makes no sense, if you want, I can dissect it even more for you.

But again, my challenge is still on. Provide me with some proof to discount my proof, or provide me with some proof to prove your case. Id like to hear it.


[edit on 13-4-2007 by LightWorker13]

Originally posted by LightWorker13
Again, you guys give no proof of your own....

I gave you some proof yet you don't even mention it. Tell me why that is not evidence/proof in your mind? Was the whole conversation faked in realtime as the event was occurring? How? How about the video of the planes themselves crashing into the WTC's? Are those pieces of proof for you. You do admit that those planes struck the WTC's at least right?

If 19 Arab highjackers did not take over those planes, what in your mind happend on those flights? I am very curious and await your answer.

Lightworker, I wasn't there and I don't claim to have personal inside proof. I honestly don't know what you are asking for. If you will not consider any of the current eveidence as it is "tainted" by the government, I don't know what would work for you. Would only 9/11 truth movement evidence be the only acceptable proof?

As to a passport surviving the crash, why is that totally impossible or even improbable? Objects far larger than that had survived the impact, or do you even doubt that? Not everything in the crashes were totally vaporized as you seem to imply. Do you deny this?

If your claim of faked passports is true and highjackers still alive after attacks, why haven't they been reported more and revealed? Surely these would be important facts. These are logical questions in response to your theory? Since yours is the theory in doubt, first try proving your side, before you do other things. As someone else said, show me a peer reviewed paper on ANY aspect of ANY 9/11 conspirarcy theory? Go ahead, look for them and post them.

Originally posted by pavil

As to a passport surviving the crash, why is that totally impossible or even improbable?

I would like to see some evidence supporting that a passport COULD survive such an explosion. Its not impossible, but certainly improbable.

Hey man the passport is made out of paper, the heat melted the structural steel but couldnt melt a passport??

Now you are being skeptical beyond reason. Its not reasonable to believe that 2 passports of the hijackers, none others just the hijackers, survived on 911 and on 7/7, you forgot to note that the bombers passports were found there too.

Man, either this is just one amazing miraculous against all odds coinicidence, or its a lie to support the official theories.

But why would the government need to lie unless they were trying to hide something? What are they trying to hide? Could it be their involvement? Ahh now you see why there are people out there who believe 911 was an inside job?

Im not saying I know what happened, no one knows for sure expect those who did it, our job is to look at all facts brought out by all sides, and make a reasonable decision based on all the evidence, logic and reason, not just buy into a government theory that cant hold any ground.

And yes anything you get from government is gonna be tainted to be biased for government, hate to break it to you but thats how it is.


[edit on 13-4-2007 by LightWorker13]

And thats just the passports, what about the rest of the inconsistencies? What about the 7 hijackers still alive, what about WTC7, what about the fact that steel doesnt melt at 1800 degrees, what about blast points and cringes as the buildings are collapsing, what about ignored pre-911 warnings, what about PNAC, what about Northwoods, what about the japanese architect who designed the towers saying they could take multiple jet impacts, what about policemen and firemen who said they heard explosions, what about seismograph tests that show explosion like vibrations as the buildings are collapsing, what about the obviously fake Bin Laden confession tape..

You see, all these things taken in isolation..."well thats just a coincidence!"

But taken all together, and they point to a very disturbing conclusion...if our government wasnt complicit in the attacks, their theory certainly holds no grounds and in fact there is alot of evidence and pure logic to disprove it, and prove they were fabricating the evidence.

[edit on 13-4-2007 by LightWorker13]

Well my research and your research seem to conflict, but what conflicts even more is the government account and hard facts.

If there were hijackers, and Im not saying there werent, but if they were, they were most certainly CIA, because Muhammed Atta, and Osama Bin Laden, as you know, all are ex-CIA. And you gotta ask if they were once working for the CIA, could they still be working for the CIA.

Its obvious who benefits from 911, the government does. They get more power, more funding, more control, they get to slap labels on people who disagree, calling them anti-american traitor jewish haters, or whatever, and then they get to make huge revenues overseas with drugs and oil, along with wasting billions of dollars of money that is supposed to go for reconstruction, yet Iraqs infrastructure still lies in ruins.

Not only that, but this is a broader plan outlined in PNAC to expand American influence dominance and control in all areas of global affairs. That means at home too, and the civil crackdown on sovereignty and the war on the middle class, and NAFTA, are right in line with the agenda.

Its time to start really looking at whats happening to this country, and ask well what if maybe our government was in fact aiding in this mayhem. Maybe they dont care about the people, and are only out for their interests.


[edit on 13-4-2007 by LightWorker13]