Is Evolution another Deceit?

Just to supplement my post above, and to lighten the mood, heres a little something I pitched at a certain soft drink companies marketing section a few years ago, only to have it rejected as "too controversial"

A time traveller wakes up one morning and is very excited. He is excited because on this day, in his timeline, he is going to travel back into the past to the exact point where life came into being on planet earth. He has calculated for many years and determined the precise location and time that the event occurred, and he simply wants to be there to record it himself, with non-invasive scanners.

Carefully he loads his specially sterilised equipment into his time pod, sets the controls and flashes back in time to a small pool, situated in landmass that will eventually form the continet of Africa. Carefully he sets up his passive scanners, sits and waits.

The moment is drawing near and yet there is no activity in the pool. He can see that all of the major elements he expected are present, and yet there is nothing to kick start the process at all. The sky above is clear, but there are thunder head clouds to the west, about 5 miles distant and they are not moving at sufficient speed to reach the pool by the required time.

Carefully he checks his gear, but by now he is panicking that maybe he has done something to prevent the evolution event, and his throat is dry. He stops for a moment, understanding that he cannot have changed time yet, because he still exists, and takes a can of soda from his food box, opens it and takes a few sips. He figures that his calculations may have been off by a few minutes, and that the approaching storm is the catalyst event. Calmer now he sits in anticipation by the pool, waiting.

Suddenly, there is a huge clap of thunder to the west, massive in its noise because there is no other sound it startles the traveller, and he jumps slightly, knocking the can over by accident.

The drink spills into the pool, but the panic of the contamination is overridden by the chirping of the sensors, all of which say that the significant evolution event has now occurred.

Puzzled, he picks up the now empty soda can and reads the side of it to see what the ingredients are, only to be confronted by a slogan

"Coke adds life"

I am referring to the chaos that was apparently present on the Earth billions of years ago to give life to rective elements which apparently gave rise to a cell which apparently gave rise to humans.

Originally posted by Heronumber0
I am referring to the chaos that was apparently present on the Earth billions of years ago to give life to rective elements which apparently gave rise to a cell which apparently gave rise to humans.

No...It didn't give rise directly to a cell, I think we agree that would seem fairly impossible.

Our current understanding simply suggests it gave rise to very basic, replicating molecules (RNA?)

Let me see if I understand this correctly:

Someone makes a statement to the effect of...

Life is too complicated to have developed without some sort of divine intervention. Therefore Evolution HAS to be wrong and God HAS to exist. Further more, the above mentioned God HAS too be the God of the Christian belief system. Belive and give us 10% of yer money OR FRY IN 7734!!

Yeah, that sounds convincing to me.

How about;

Evolution happens. But it is not just about life on cellular scales, building up to form complex multicellular organisms.

Rather, evolution is the term to describe the progression of creation, and that evolution as science knows it is merely but one fragment of a much larger evolutionary process.

My conclusion is that reality is all about consciousness. Humans are merely one product of creation/of God/The sum of all consciousness, although our purpose is more than just too experience what we have created for ourselves. Plants produce life sustaining oxygen for other organisms, aswell as providing material for organic decomposition, allowing the process of creation to continue on this planet. Evolution is not just the progression of cellular life, but of consciousness itself, and humans are going to be playing an integral part in this process in the coming years/2012.

There is no such thing as "waste" energy. Everything is recycled, on every level of creation, from molecules being torn apart on the surface of blackholes, to dead organisms being decomposed by bacteria etc. This should make you think hard about the way our human society functions, and all the garbage we produce...you think its coincidence we are putting out chemicals that don't decay...you think its just coincidence our military uses depleted uranium?..

Intelligent design works, but it lacks the idea of interconnectedness, and still involves the idea of "a" God, rather than my idea that everything is merely part of the same 1 energy field which IS God (which in turn means i, and you, and everything you see is god). If someone combined intelligent design with te holographic universe theory it mite get more recognition as a plausible theory.

To sum up, evolution as science knows it is far from a complete theory. However, the time of Darwinian-Einsteinian logic is almost over

Originally posted by shrunkensimonTo sum up, evolution as science knows it is far from a complete theory. However, the time of Darwinian-Einsteinian logic is almost over

Yeah, it's time to follow shrunkensimon into the dark ages

Originally posted by DarkSide

Originally posted by shrunkensimonTo sum up, evolution as science knows it is far from a complete theory. However, the time of Darwinian-Einsteinian logic is almost over

Yeah, it's time to follow shrunkensimon into the dark ages

Wow, that was hilarious As per usual, whenever i lay it down, i get someone coming back with a joke against what i've said. Lose the ego and actually debate against me SNIP.

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[edit on 11-4-2007 by sanctum]

Originally posted by Heronumber0
I have to throw the cat amongst the pigeons here. I don't believe in evolution any more.

Give me proof that 10 billion years of chaos makes a human being capable of consciousness, language and recursive thought.

I have read Dawkins and material from other equally brilliant and erudite neo Darwinists and they still show a plan or a scheme for evolution dependent upon survival as the key.

I have also read material from Molecular Biologists pointing out exactly the opposite, i.e. a plan or scheme dependent on God as the designer.

From what I have read, the greatest challenge for evolutionists is at the molecular level and at the level of the evolution of a single cell. NO one can explain it to me with any sense....

Evolution is true. For example:

-Land mammals develop gill-like structures while being embryos.
-Humans have a tail bone.
-Whales have small legs inside them.

See en.wikipedia.org...

There is so much evidence around, I find it very boring to search the web for more.

Personally, I do not find why evolution is bad. Hey, we evolved from other organisms. So? we are what we are, and no one can take that from us. Evolution does not make us less human.

As for Christianity, I wonder why it is considered the religion that is correct. Why shouldn't Buddhism be the one true religion, for example?

Originally posted by Heronumber0
We cannot come up with a theory that says blind chaos gives rise to a conscious being with the most sophisticated design possible. If you believe in chaos then you would conceive of a scenario where a tornado or infinite tornadoes in a scrap yard would eventualy pick up all the spare parts to make a perfect Lamborghini Diablo- with the engine running and the keys inside! Because that is what evolution theory suggests and there are scientists in 2007 who are prepared to be quite militant about this theory - to the extent of marginalising scientists who do not believe it. A dangerous development.

But what you do not understand is that a being like a human is nothing at all like a Lamborghini Diablo: a human contains many reduntant parts left over from the trial and error of nature. Each human is slightly different from the others. On the other hand, all Diablos are the same, have no spare parts, and all their modules have a single purpose, i.e. to get the car going.

And don't think intelligence is something difficult to explain. It's simply pattern matching.

Originally posted by shrunkensimon

Originally posted by DarkSide

Originally posted by shrunkensimonTo sum up, evolution as science knows it is far from a complete theory. However, the time of Darwinian-Einsteinian logic is almost over

Yeah, it's time to follow shrunkensimon into the dark ages

Wow, that was hilarious

As per usual, whenever i lay it down, i get someone coming back with a joke against what i've said. Lose the ego and actually debate against me ffs.

What you perhaps don't understand is that your arguments are hilarious, and so there is nothing to debate. I've read your post above 15 times, and I still can't figure out what you are trying to say.

Please, don't get me wrong. I am willing to debate, if that is what you want. And I respect you. But you should have a logically consistent proposition to discuss .

Well, redundant just means that we haven't found the use for it yet.

Originally posted by Johnmike
Evolution is a theory. It is possible. Maybe even likely. But it is no fact, and don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

Gravity is also a theory, and in many real ways it is a theory with more loose ends, missing links, total mysteries and quandries than the theory of evolution.

Originally posted by masterp
As for Christianity, I wonder why it is considered the religion that is correct. Why shouldn't Buddhism be the one true religion, for example?

Because ATS is mainly populated bu english speaking caucasian which are nearly 99% christian (99% of the believer, 99% may also be exagerated)

Originally posted by Heronumber0
I believe neformore that Silicon is capable of forming more compounds than carbon. So why carbon? Moreover, just believing that Time alone is capable of creating self replicating molecules is as fanciful as Time worship.

Nope. Wrong - and certainly not in water. By making that claim you are ignoring what is in abundance on this planet, namely

Water
Carbon
Oxygen

All of which are plentiful, and all of which combine to make up life as we know it.

Silicon based life may be possible, but Silicon isn't capable of bonding with anywhere near as many different types of elements as carbon. Silicon based life would need to breath something like methane, "swim" in rock and probably produce sulphic acid as a by-product. Strangley, that type of creature could exist theoretically in our solar system, on Titan.

As for the time thing, do we ignore that over a period of time stars and planets form? Do we ignore that plant life, animal life and human life grows over a period? All those things take time. Time affords different combinations to be bought together and to work. The only way time is not relevant to this discussion is if you dismiss it out of hand without realising the sheer scale of what you are trying to comprehend, over millions and millions of years.

I dont see how anyone can deny that to some degree, we evolved from monkeys. We just look to damn similar for it to be a total coincedence. My theory is that monkeys evolved opposable thumbs and that gave them a distinct advantage over other creatures. But why would they evolve further into complex societies with social structures and language? This is where aliens come in. As an experiment they "upgraded" us using existing genetics from beings on other planets and our DNA evolved further.

Would this mean God doesn't exist? Absolutely not. There is no reason why God can't interact with us in ways far more complex than the simple notion of "he created us out of the soil" or whatever theories were put forth by the people who lived thousands of years ago and who were trying to explain what they couldn't understand.

Science has given us some answers and the power of observation. We shouldn't disregard these simply because they dont jibe with ideas that existed before most of the population could even read.

squiz, good point about species that are staying the same for a long time


[edit on 10-4-2007 by frenzy_boy]

Originally posted by frenzy_boy
good point about species that haven't are staying the same for a long time

That's a result of the fact that they dont have opposable thumbs, which is the key to our intelligence. If dolphins could use tools and manipulate their environment the way we can, then I beleive they would be just as smart as us. Some believe that squid will be the next great intelligent creature, in theory they could use their tentacles to manipulate things and use tools.

I know, how about evolutionists go to heck and stop forcing their beliefs on me.

Evolution never was, is, or will be a fact.

Have a horrible day.

Originally posted by thehumbleone
I know, how about evolutionists go to heck and stop forcing their beliefs on me.

things aren't beliefs if you have logical arguments backed up by evidence to support them.

Evolution never was, is, or will be a fact.

if evolution won't be fact, here's a list of things that won't be fact:

gravity
cell theory
genetic theory
and every other theory in the history of humanity

N O T H I N G in science is 100% fact because science leaves open this thing called margin of human error. scientists know they aren't infallible, unlike the religious

Have a horrible day.

sorry, i can't return the sentiment on this one. SNIP.

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[edit on 11-4-2007 by sanctum]

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul

sorry, i can't return the sentiment on this one. SNIP.

Ditto, but you first.

[edit on 11-4-2007 by sanctum]