I have to throw the cat amongst the pigeons here. I don't believe in evolution any more.

Give me proof that 10 billion years of chaos makes a human being capable of consciousness, language and recursive thought.

I have read Dawkins and material from other equally brilliant and erudite neo Darwinists and they still show a plan or a scheme for evolution dependent upon survival as the key.

I have also read material from Molecular Biologists pointing out exactly the opposite, i.e. a plan or scheme dependent on God as the designer.

From what I have read, the greatest challenge for evolutionists is at the molecular level and at the level of the evolution of a single cell. NO one can explain it to me with any sense....

I see what you are saying but hear me out. Religion has thrown this subject completely out of context. You can be a Christian and still believe in evolution. It is very obvious that the living creatures on Earth have been adapting to their surroundings for many, many years. Just because you think animals adapt does not mean you have to believe in "The Big Bang Theory" or anything like that.

I will take myself as an example. I never developed lower wisdom teeth. I did however develop the upper half. Does this mean I am a freak of nature or is it nature saying humans don't need them anymore? I honestly don't know but I find it very interesting.

Man may never know the absolute truth but I suppose this is why people call it faith.

I agree with the O.P.

IMO evolution is a bunch of crock, I LMFAO at scientists who try to tell me what happened billions of years ago.

Heck, the weather man can't even accurately predict tomorrow's whether.

[edit on 9-4-2007 by thehumbleone]

I think Evolution is absolutely real and is a process of God. I dont see why everyone has to divide these concepts in 2. Just because evolution has essentially been scientifically proven doesnt mean there's no god. And just because the theory of evolution has some gaps doesn't mean there is a god either.

Everything makes a lot more sense when you combine them. God is expressing himself in human form, and to do that it took millions of years of evolution and possibly help from aliens.

I think evolution is real, but not for humans on earth. Face it, they never found the missing link to prove evolution. They found dinosaurs and all the fossils to connect monkeys to neatherthals, but what about the missing link. There are thousands of other fossils, but zero missing link. Ever wonder why?

Anchient myths gives clues that beings from other worlds came to earth and clone themselves along w/ other creatures on earth to have servants. Maybe we were half ET and half neantherthals. That's why there's a gap in the evolutionary history of humans. Didn't God said he created man in the image of himself? Sounds like cloning to me. There are many scientific research, such as the human genome project that suggest that humans are extraterrestrial because are genes are extremely unique to any species found on earth. Most species on earth is related one way or another, but not humans. They say that humans are too complex to have gone through evolution and may had help to be enhanced.

Seriously, if we went through evolution on earth and became this intelligent. Why are all other species so far behind? Wouldn't they be just as intelligent or more? I mean humans weren't the first to be on earth right? So whatever came before us, should have more time to evolved.

IMO evolution is a bunch of crock, I LMFAO at scientists who try to tell me what happened billions of years ago.

IMO religion is a bunch of crock, I LMFAO at preachers who try to tell me what happens after death.

There are thousands of other fossils, but zero missing link. Ever wonder why?

Because we didn't find it yet?

Seriously, if we went through evolution on earth and became this intelligent. Why are all other species so far behind? Wouldn't they be just as intelligent or more? I mean humans weren't the first to be on earth right? So whatever came before us, should have more time to evolved.

I used to think that when I was still a christian, but you must understand that evolution doesn't have a goal and it's certainly not to make everything more intelligent.

Evolution is a theory. It is possible. Maybe even likely. But it is no fact, and don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

Originally posted by Johnmike
Evolution is a theory. It is possible. Maybe even likely. But it is no fact, and don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

A scientific theory is not a guess though

Evolution isn't proven, it is currently believed to be the most likely route in which life as we know it was created on earth. I dont really know what we can tell you to convince you if Richard Dawkins can't!

I once saw a documentary where a preachers criticism of evolution was that evolution was only a theory whereas the bible and christianity was fact! Scientists have never shied away from admitting that what we believe is only theory, they aren't arogant enough t claim thei beliefs to be fact unless tey can be shown to be so.

Back on topic, evolution can be practically observed in the sperad of the AIDs virus. Specialised viral molecules can be seen in patients who got the disease in different ways.

[edit on 10/4/07 by gfad]

I don't know Darkside. We are made of a hundred trillion cells yet scientists cannot come up with a convincing theory - let alone guess! - about how a single cell came into being. Heck, even to detect a single photon, you need at least ten separate chemical processes which must be able to repeat themselves. Any ONE of those proteins doesn't work and the whole process of seeing something falls apart. Evolution would state that all ten came about at the same time in slow and sustained genetic mutations. As a former research scientist (as a postdoc) I cannot believe it!

"You have voted Vipassana for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have two more votes this month."

Evolution happens, fact. Why it happens/where it started is not known...just like the Big Bang

What came first, the DNA, or the life it codes for?...

Originally posted by squiz
Evolution is an incomplete theory. Intelligent design is something that makes much more sense to me, although many people, mainly religious types have jumped on the theory and in my opinion damaged it, mixing up biblical creationism with scientific reasoning. Although the reasoning leads to an uncomfortable place for most scientists.

Intelligent design doesnt work as a theory. It doesnt even explain anything it just extrapolates into infinity. Anything that had the ability to create life on earth would be so complex how did it cpome into existance? It must have a maker. And who made that maker? another maker? .......

Originally posted by Heronumber0
I don't know Darkside. We are made of a hundred trillion cells yet scientists cannot come up with a convincing theory - let alone guess! - about how a single cell came into being. Heck, even to detect a single photon, you need at least ten separate chemical processes which must be able to repeat themselves. Any ONE of those proteins doesn't work and the whole process of seeing something falls apart. Evolution would state that all ten came about at the same time in slow and sustained genetic mutations. As a former research scientist (as a postdoc) I cannot believe it!

Scientists are only humans. We are doing the best to discover these things, one day we will know how cells came to be. I think we should realize how ignorant we are, and continue searching, giving up and saying god did it all is not the answer.

Originally posted by Heronumber0
I don't know Darkside. We are made of a hundred trillion cells yet scientists cannot come up with a convincing theory - let alone guess! - about how a single cell came into being. Heck, even to detect a single photon, you need at least ten separate chemical processes which must be able to repeat themselves. Any ONE of those proteins doesn't work and the whole process of seeing something falls apart. Evolution would state that all ten came about at the same time in slow and sustained genetic mutations. As a former research scientist (as a postdoc) I cannot believe it!

OK. so what can you believe? That an omnipetent all-seeing all knowing creature created the universe and man in his own image in seven days? Because, lets be frank, thats even more fanciful isn't it?

As a former research scientist I'm sure you are more than aware of the theories of atomic binding, and the fact that carbons unique properties allow the formation of complex molecues and ameno acids in a water environment. The exact combining and "kick start" process for life is not known at the present moment, but then our science is still advancing and we sure as hell don't know everything.

We cannot come up with a theory that says blind chaos gives rise to a conscious being with the most sophisticated design possible. If you believe in chaos then you would conceive of a scenario where a tornado or infinite tornadoes in a scrap yard would eventualy pick up all the spare parts to make a perfect Lamborghini Diablo- with the engine running and the keys inside! Because that is what evolution theory suggests and there are scientists in 2007 who are prepared to be quite militant about this theory - to the extent of marginalising scientists who do not believe it. A dangerous development.

I believe neformore that Silicon is capable of forming more compounds than carbon. So why carbon? Moreover, just believing that Time alone is capable of creating self replicating molecules is as fanciful as Time worship.

The biggest argument against intelligent design are its proponents. I mean just look at some of the loons (and that is to say nothing bad about the Loon, a wonderful bird) that support it....Pat Robertson...Jerry Falwell...bush minor etc.

I think the notion of believing or disbelieving in a scientific theory is absurd because it is not a matter of personal belief. The action of evolution continues whether you believe in it or not. The process of evolution surrounds us, whether occurring naturally, or manipulated by man (crops, livestock, plants etc), it is still the same process, the only difference is man's involvement. In the long run the fact that we live in it is the prime reason some people don't "believe" in it, that and a probable shortage of working brain cells. As far as I am concerned one of the biggest proofs in favor of evolution are drug resistant diseases (or pesticide resistant bugs) that over generations have developed immunity to the chemicals we use to fight them. Staff, Tuberculosis, AIDS anyone?

Darwin was famous for the meticulous character of his work and his collections (especially of finches) which show the minute changes between species. His naysayers would do well to mimic the level of care he put into his work, if they ever hope to be taken seriously.

As for the whole God issue... its absurd. An acceptance of evolutionary theory does not automatically predicate a denial of God or vice a versa, despite what some (on both sides) would have you believe. Who knows the mind of God? Certainly NOT Jerry Falwell or Pat Robertson, least of all them. Accepting the notion of a God, for all we know a day for God is a billion years, and for all we know all she/he/it did was to start the whole thing in motion allowing life to unfold through the process of evolution. To say that the Bible says God created everything in 7 days and that is that is simplistic at best. Religious writings are more than anything metaphors for our approach to the ineffable and are best understood that way. To interpret them literally is to rob them of depth and richness of meaning and to limit them to a narrowness of meaning.

Originally posted by Heronumber0
We cannot come up with a theory that says blind chaos gives rise to a conscious being with the most sophisticated design possible. If you believe in chaos then you would conceive of a scenario where a tornado or infinite tornadoes in a scrap yard would eventualy pick up all the spare parts to make a perfect Lamborghini Diablo- with the engine running and the keys inside! Because that is what evolution theory suggests and there are scientists in 2007 who are prepared to be quite militant about this theory - to the extent of marginalising scientists who do not believe it. A dangerous development.

What chaos are you talking about? The universe is quite orderly, and obeys to laws, unless your on the planck level.