British Hostages tortured....

Yea I agree, if you wanna look at evidence, the soldiers were treated very well.

But oh we got sick of them asking us questions so that somehow constitutes psychological torture.

Like the previous person said, they claim it happened. Iran claims it didnt. The proof shows if they did do something it wasnt bad enough to leave any proof...

I mean come on, now shes sucking this for every penny its worth, with a new autobiography. Man talk about taking advantage of a situation to help your government eh. She is very patriotic, she would tell her story to aid government propaganda, what a true patriot, god bless her.

All of you people who question government, you all should take lessons from her, and support your government no matter what. Be a good citizen and write this little piece about how you were tortured, by the way, if you dont, you get no money, no air time, no nothing...and well call you a traitor for helping Iranian propaganda...so be a good lad and tell the nice people how bad Iran is.

[edit on 9-4-2007 by LightWorker13]

Originally posted by MikeboydUSBecause its a matter of Honor. If you don't understand the concept thats the problem.

If it comes down to honor, then what's the honor in resisting mostly hospitable captors? If British forces weren't planning an immediate strike on Iran to relieve them from their captors, where's the honor in dragging out a hostage crisis as long as possible? For what? So citizens of Middle Eastern descent can look at these 15 sailors as if they were stereotyping every Iranian as out to get them, just like the western media has been suggesting?

I would've seen absolutely no honor in resisting their Iranian captors while they were accomodating them in every way possible, but you obviously do. We are all entitled to our own opinions.

Originally posted by ferretman2
They were hostages not prisoners.

According to the dictionary, a hostage is:
1 a : a person held by one party in a conflict as a pledge pending the fulfillment of an agreement b : a person taken by force to secure the taker's demands

So...
1) What conflict are Iran and the UK in?
2) What agreement was fulfilled upon their release?
3) What demands were made or met?

They were taken illegally since Britian and Iran are not at war.

Are you saying that anyone can enter Iranian waters as long as they're not at war with Iran? That's just silly.

They were blind folded with weapons being cocked behind them.

That happens to prisoners. When you hear about electrodes connected to their genitals, give me a call...

They were put into isolation

For how long? 25 minutes? They were only there a few days.

Turney was mock measured for a coffin

Turney was told she was all alone.

Are you serious??? "You're all alone"! Oh no! The torture!

Hypocracy at it's best.........

Shall I go look up some of your posts regarding the torture at Guantanamo? I don't think that's necessary, either...

Sorry. I'm sure it wasn't entirely pleasant for these people, but it could have been SO much worse. If they had been Iranians captured by the US for example!

Originally posted by LightWorker13

Originally posted by MikeboydUS

Originally posted by bluesquareapple
Why are people getting so offended that they complied with their captors wishes? Not only would it make for a shorter hostage negotiation, they would treat all of them with better respect than if they had been defiant since the moment they were captured. You're pretty much wishing that they go through hours, days, possibly even weeks to months as tortured hostages and causing an armed conflict between Iran and Britain over a disputed GPS location.. A bit much to ask in my opinion..

This is the age of the media, every little piece of drama will be exploited, warped and retold for years to come..

Because its a matter of Honor. If you don't understand the concept thats the problem.

What the hell is honorable about fighting a war, being taken hostage, and dragging it out because of stubbornness? if you think its so noble and honorable, why arent u in the front lines fighting it??

Honor my ass. It takes much more honor, much more nobility, much more intelligence, to find a way to avoid war altogether.

If you cant understand that, thats the problem.

[edit on 9-4-2007 by LightWorker13]

I can see where the average person would compare Honor with being Stubborn but it's quite different.

Been there done that Iraq 2003, Afghanistan 2005-2006. Still active too

When humans stop fighting wars it will proabably be when we are extinct. Avoiding war and submission to anothers will are two different things. It doesn't take any honor, nobility or intelligence to do that. For that all you need is fear. People need to stop being afraid. Afraid of pain. Afraid of death. Afraid of loss. If people don't wake up and face their fear reality is going backhand them in the face. Honor is about facing that fear and not backing down. Having enough pride to stand up and do what's right.

Originally posted by MikeboydUS

Honor is about facing that fear and not backing down. Having enough pride to stand up and do what's right.

You said it right there.

To do what's right in my opinion is to not go to war.

I would let my self be killed before i would kill someone else, if you think i have fear for that then i think you are mistaken.

Fear is killing the other person so that the other person doesn't kill you, now that's FEAR.

Honor is to do what is right, you said it.

Are you saying that anyone can enter Iranian waters as long as they're not at war with Iran? That's just silly.

They were not in Iranian waters.

The British provided GPS coordinates
The Indian merchant vessel provided GPS coordinates

guess what........

The Irain Government provided the same exact GPS coordinates identical to the British and Indian GPS coordinates....

SHOWING THAT THE BRITISH WERE IN IRAQI WATERS

Only after realizing their stupidity did the Iranians change their GPS coordinates 2 DAYS LATER!

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
Shall I go look up some of your posts regarding the torture at Guantanamo? I don't think that's necessary, either...

Sorry. I'm sure it wasn't entirely pleasant for these people, but it could have been SO much worse. If they had been Iranians captured by the US for example!

I've been trying to stray away from the "at least they didn't get the Guantanamo greeting" statement, but it's the truth. To put it lightly, and not meant to be humorous, but the worst outcome from what the Iranians did would've been one of the service people peeing their pants and some slight mental stress for a short period afterwards..

I doubt anyone would agree, but I actually applaud the way the Iranians handled this after GPS disputes were thrown around.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

Originally posted by ferretman2
They were hostages not prisoners.

According to the dictionary, a hostage is:
1 a : a person held by one party in a conflict as a pledge pending the fulfillment of an agreement b : a person taken by force to secure the taker's demands

So...
1) What conflict are Iran and the UK in?
2) What agreement was fulfilled upon their release?
3) What demands were made or met?

Conflict doesn't have to be a war state.

1. The conflict was that Iran believed that the British were trespassing for espionage and the Brits disagreed.
2 and 3. The Iranians demanded that the sailors admit and apologise for trespassing.

Not that I agree with that definition of hostage anyway, I don't think there has to be a pre-conflict before a hostage is taken. And there also doesn't have to be any demands from the captors.

But it doesn't matter what you call them anyway, lets just say that they were the 'captured sailors'?

Originally posted by bluesquareapple
I doubt anyone would agree, but I actually applaud the way the Iranians handled this after GPS disputes were thrown around.

Well it certainly showed the world that they weren't the savage beasts that they're made out to be. Of course they helped convey that with the videos they aired.

But still the British government is desperate to demonise them, even after they gave the sailors back unharmed.

Originally posted by selfless

Originally posted by MikeboydUS

Honor is about facing that fear and not backing down. Having enough pride to stand up and do what's right.

You said it right there.

To do what's right in my opinion is to not go to war.

I would let my self be killed before i would kill someone else, if you think i have fear for that then i think you are mistaken.

Fear is killing the other person so that the other person doesn't kill you, now that's FEAR.

Honor is to do what is right, you said it.

There's nothing you would fight for? You would rather just give in? If that was the philosophy of our leaders throughout history we would be part of the Third Reich or the Soviet Union. Better yet we would be speaking Persian or Arabic. That philosophy is what I Fear. That possiblity that people would just give in and die. That scares me.

Originally posted by bluesquareapple
Why are people getting so offended that they complied with their captors wishes?

WHY do some people not understand that it's not us being 'offended', but that it's a matter of security.

They gave up information that they shouldn't have.
They endangered the lives of all the other coalition forces by doing so.

Originally posted by LightWorker13
What the hell is honorable about ... Honor my ass.... If you cant understand that, thats the problem.

:shk: geeeeeeeeze

The point is that their behavior REEKS. They put the lives of everyone in danger. And they made it very difficult for other soldiers, in the future, if they are captured. They dishonored their uniform and their country. They are a nightmare.

And to use your words back - if you can't understand that, then YOU have a problem.

Originally posted by marg6043
At the end we must ask ourselves who is winning anything out of this mess . . .

Everyone loses. Everyone.

Iran illegally kidnapped and held hostage Brits who were in Iraqi waters.
The Brits have these meatheads posing as 'heroes'.
The 'heroes' fell to pieces within minutes of capture.
Anyone who is interested in buying 'their story' are down right gullible.
The entire body of coalition forces loses because now they will be seen as easy and wimpy targets.
Any and all future soldiers coming out of Britian will have this stain to deal with - and any taken POW will have a much harder time because of it.

EVERYONE loses.

Originally posted by malganis
no matter what crap they spew out and how obviously fake it is, the majority of the US and British public will believe it.

NOPE. You haven't been watching the US News, have you? CNN, MSNBC, and FOX are all in agreement ... the behavior of the Brits was LOUSY. It's amazing .. all three of the major 24/7 News networks agree on something. Oh .. and you are hard pressed to find anyone who thinks highly of those 15 Brits.

(sorry to any Brits reading this)

Originally posted by ferretman2
But it appears that the sailors/marines experienced psycological torture but to some of you that doesn't constitue torture.....

No they weren't. Not really. They were uncomfortable and lied to, but they were NOT tortured in any sense of the word.

They have no excuse for their behavior. None.

'THREATENED with years in prison as a spy unless she did what her captors wanted.

As the days went on, the mind games intensified.'

Exacatly the fools that's all it was and all they ever had on them mind games. If the Iranians just killed them or didn't release them or actually did get down and dirty with the torture there would be hell to pay everybody would be wanting Iranian blood for it. The Iranians must of known this i mean come on the USA is looking for any reason now and that's what the problem is the Iranians played them for fools and now they realise it all the excuses are coming out.

Are these people thick or something??? Did they really think omg i'm going to be locked away for seven years and the whole world is going to let Iran do it. It was serious bluffing and yes it was psychological bullying but it works both ways they all could of refused and said nothing and did sweet FA and the Iranians wouldn't of been able to do much about it as i said earlier one bruise, death, beating and that would of been it for them.

I'm still amazed how she keeps bringing her daughter into this it was her that told the Iranians she had a daughter in the first place thus giving the Iranians something to manipulate her with.

Your all going to love her interview on ITV tonight some classic moments in it.

There's some crazy logic coming from the navy about selling the story:

An MoD source said: "From the moment of their release, the families and friends of the Servicemen were bombarded with cash offers. We are talking about life-changing sums of money being offered to people.

"We took a view that we could advise them or throw them to the wolves. Our position was that if their families wanted to accept the money that was up to them."

That don't justify selling the story i mean so what if a family member goes to the papers the public aren't stupid they'll see that it's some bum family member trying to cash in on the event for there own benefit. The dumb logic of they might as well make the money before someone else does is meant to justify it...



That's like ok i'm going to kill someone before someone else does because i don't want other people to take the credit for killing that person.

At least these guy's have some brains:

'Seven Marines held captive alongside eight sailors are understood to have agreed to pool any payments they receive and donate part of the sum to a Service charity. It is not known if Ldg Seaman Turney or her family plan to donate part or all of her payment to charity.'

Ok, so its brave and honorable to fight a war against people who did nothing to you, who your government lied about being involved in 911, who your government lied about having WMDs, and are lying about casualties on both sides, and ban the media from showing the coffins of dead troops to keep up the charade.

Its not honorable to believe whatever your spoonfed by your government. Its not honorable to go fight a war because your government tells you its honorable, when they dont care about you at all. It is honorable to learn the truth and realize that we humans are manipulated into fighting, and that human nature is not one of war and fear, but of peace and happiness. Its honorable to stand up against killing 600,000 at least, even CNN gave these numbers, 600,000 innocent civilians.

Its honorable to protest the killing of half a million Iraq children during the 1990s, with American sanctions. Its honorable to stand up and speak out against depleted uranium, which is causing chaos in the newest generation of Iraqis, its honorable to speak out against a war that has not helped Iraq, but only created chaos destruction and death.

And in case you didnt know, your government is responsible for 911, this whole war is based on a lie, and even colonels in the military say "yes we know this war is a sham, yes we know its all about money, yes we know bush is a traitor, yes we know theyre building permanent bases, yes we know there are no plans to leave, yes we know bush is neglecting the injured troops when they come home, and we know that Halliburton just made 1 million dollars for putting up a 100 dollar banner...we know, we know, we know"

The only people who dont know this war is a sham, are the idiots who still drive around with the stickers and flags.... the 30% of the military, they did studies, something like 70% of the troops are fed up with the war and know its all a sham...maybe 30% percent swho have not been in the real front lines, and havent seen the Halliburton facilities, and havent seen the killing of innocent people from members of their own squads....

These are the only people in the whole world, who dont know this war is a sham.



[edit on 9-4-2007 by LightWorker13]

Guess what everyone!!!!

From Faye Turneys own mouth:

I've been offered alot of money for my story but i haven't taken the biggest sums because i wanted to talk to you and the sun so i could get my side of the story across.

Part of all the money i make is going to HMS Cornwall.

From her interview with Patrick Stewart on ITV tonight.

Originally posted by LightWorker13
Ok, so its brave and honorable to fight a war against people who did nothing to you,

The Germans in WWII did nothing to us either. Guess we should have left the Brits, the French, and the Jews to die at their hands eh? :shk:

. Its not honorable to go fight a war ..

left wing off topic blah blah blah

killing 600,000 at least, even CNN gave these numbers, 600,000 innocent civilians.

CNN is left wing and biased. The figure is bogus and has been debunked.

killing of half a million Iraq children during the 1990s, with American sanctions.

That has also been debunked.

FACT - Saddam posted FAKE numbers of dead Iraqis. He inflated them to futher his agenda.

FACT - Saddam stole the Oil for Food money from the Iraqis to build palaces and to pay off UN officials.

Anyone who died in the 1990s did NOT die due to UNITED NATIONS sanctions (not U.S. sanctions). They died because Saddam stole their food money. PERIOD.

Originally posted by LightWorker13
And in case you didnt know, your government is responsible for 911,

:shk: Off topic rambling....

The only people who dont know this war is a sham, are the idiots who still drive around with the stickers and flags

You really shouldn't re-re-edit posts and put this kind of off topic garbage in.


You need to get back on topic.

Edited to deal with the re-re-re-edits/rants of lightworker


[edit on 4/9/2007 by FlyersFan]

I bet she wouldnt get half as much money if she was still saying Iran was nice and treated them well....

Wow, you still buy into this whole left-right paradigm meant to divide and rule, well your opinion is worth nothing to me then, so please dont respond to my replies, there Flyers Fan.

You know cuz thats all they are, opinions. So Saddam stole money, prove it. Do you know what sanctions are? Hmmm? They limit all the imports and exports of a country. THAT IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THE STARVING OF HALF A MILLION CHILDREN. Do you think Iraq, small as it is, can sustain itself with its own farms? No, they have to import food, and they were greatly limited with that, and guess what they were most limited on, OIL!

And in case you didnt know, Saddam was building social programs, just like Hugo Chavez, just like Hamas in Palestine. Government propaganda that Saddam was like Hitler is stupid.


[edit on 9-4-2007 by LightWorker13]

^^^^^ Couldn't agree more that's exacatly it i love how playing ping pong, smoking, sitting around watching tv and farting about is conviently hushed and never metioned in her story no doubt it'll come out soon that they were all forced at gun point to do those things.

Originally posted by LightWorker13
your opinion is worth nothing to me then,

That's your problem.

so please dont respond to my replies,

Nope. That's not how it works here. If you post, you get responded to.
If you post crap, we debunk it. DEAL with it.

Your off topic rants were responded to. Try to stay on topic -
that being the British Hostages and their claims of torture.

Thats all they are claims, and all the proof, like videos yea videos, show the opposite, they werent tortured, if they were, why arent there any marks or tears?