Democrat Meets Banned Muslim Brotherhood

Democrat Meets Banned Muslim Brotherhood

abcnews.go.com

CAIRO, Egypt Apr 7, 2007 (AP)— A top U.S. Democratic congressman met a leader of Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak's most powerful rival, the outlawed Muslim Brotherhood, U.S. officials and the Islamist group said Saturday.

Visiting House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer met with the head of the Muslim Brotherhood's parliamentary bloc, Mohammed Saad el-Katatni, twice on Thursday once at the parliament building and then at the home of the U.S. ambassador to Egypt, said Brotherhood spokesman Hamdi Hassan.

(visit the link for the full news article)



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Interesting report.

It seems the democratic party is quickly trying to earn the extremeist Muslim vote.

I am all for having dialog with controversial Muslim leaders. But how far do we go?

Will the next meeting be with Al-Qaeda chief Osama Bin Laden?

abcnews.go.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

I thought there was no written law against this sort of stuff, but I was wrong.

Someone needs to dust off this old law:

Logan Act:

§ 953. Private correspondence with foreign governments.

Any citizen of the United States, wherever he may be, who, without authority of the United States, directly or indirectly commences or carries on any correspondence or intercourse with any foreign government or any officer or agent thereof, with intent to influence the measures or conduct of any foreign government or of any officer or agent thereof, in relation to any disputes or controversies with the United States, or to defeat the measures of the United States, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than three years, or both.

This section shall not abridge the right of a citizen to apply himself, or his agent, to any foreign government, or the agents thereof, for redress of any injury which he may have sustained from such government or any of its agents or subjects.

1 Stat. 613, January 30, 1799, codified at 18 U.S.C. § 953 (2004).

[edit on 4/7/2007 by djohnsto77]

Excellent find djohnsto77.

Just a thought here, in this case since it is an "outlawed group" will that law apply here? Because this group has no official government position, and is not a sanctioned foreign power.

I really think that diplomatic trips are, and should be cleared by top US officials, so apparently these meetings had to have been arranged by US security officials no?

Originally posted by UM_Gazz
Just a thought here, in this case since it is an "outlawed group" will that law apply here? Because this group has no official government position, and is not a sanctioned foreign power.

The article says that they are members of parliament, so it can't be that outlawed, whatever that means.

It is confusing I admit, and I'm no lawyer, but this law should have at least applied to Pelosi's visit to Syria.

I really think that diplomatic trips are, and should be cleared by top US officials, so apparently these meetings had to have been arranged by US security officials no?

These aren't official U.S. diplomatic ventures. Members of Congress have no more right to engage in diplomacy on behalf of the United States as you or I do. That is solely the realm of the President and his Secretary of State.



[edit on 4/7/2007 by djohnsto77]

I found some information on the Muslim Brotherhood and wanted to share with you the first is one critical of the potential association with the Brotherhood.

The Not-So-Moderate Muslim Brotherhood

This month’s Foreign Affairs from the Council on Foreign Relations features an in-depth look into the Muslim Brotherhood (MB) (Ikhwan al-Muslimeen) by Robert S. Leiken and Steven Brooke. Leiken and Brooke attempt to make the case for a pragmatic engagement of what they call the “Moderate Muslim Brotherhood” as an organization whose “relative moderation offers Washington a notable opportunity for engagement.” Borrowing from their own meetings with MB leadership from across the Middle East and Europe, they navigate the dizzying number of national permutations of the MB theme from Hassan al-Turabi in Sudan to Yusef al-Qaradawi in Qatar to Kamal el-Helbawi in the U.K. to name a few. As an example of what Leiken and Brooke believe to be the “moderate” stance of the Muslim Brotherhood, they note:

And these next two links are to the history of the MB
the first from FAS and the second from the MB website,

I am still checking out the material myself I just wanted to share the info.]

FAS
MBWebsite

Another site with a timeline history of the organization
Muslim Brotherhood - Egypt

Though the history is conflicted you would think that this group should not be involved with direct talks with members of Congress.



[edit on 2007/4/7 by JacKatMtn]

Taking Their Business Out Into The Street

You know, if they keep this up, Dubya's going to start throwing their clothes out onto the sidewalk.

Just like I said in Um's other tread about Pelosi going to Syria, I think this is overstepping their powers of the job they were elected to perform.

You just can't have every member of Congress and the Senate running around any time they want to to talk to world leaders or groups that are not "friendly" or on good terms with the US.

That sort of power or authority is given to the President, to decide to talk to these people or groups himself or through Ambassadors (who are sent there by the President to speak on his behalf after being briefed on what the Presidents desired outcome of the dialog) that he has appointed.

Article Two of the United States Constitution

He shall have Power, by and with the Advice and Consent of the Senate, to make Treaties, provided two thirds of the Senators present concur; and he shall nominate, and by and with the Advice and Consent of the Senate, shall appoint Ambassadors, other public Ministers and Consuls

Foreign Policy Law of the United States

Scope of Presidential Powers

An executive agreement can only be negotiated and entered into through the president's authority

I just think it's wrong for members of our government running around , meeting with these people, with no direction on how the President, who is in charge (for the most part)of the US Foreign Policies.

It's kind of like Parliamentary Procedures, only they are skipping in line and talking out of turn.

[edit on 8/4/07 by Keyhole]

Who cares if congresspeople take to whoever they want? Actions and not words is what I'm concerned about. And should we not have the "bad guy's" side of the story, too?

Well, well, well...... it seems that Senate Majority Leader Hoyer wasn't the only one to meet with a member of the Muslim Brotherhood......

Bay Area Congresswoman Meets with Muslim Brotherhood

SAN FRANCISCO (KCBS) -- Democratic Representative Barbara Lee of Oakland was part of a bipartisan U.S. delegation that met with a member of the Muslim Brotherhood, an organization banned in Egypt and shunned by Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice.

The delegation, which also included House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer, first met with Sudanese officials about the situation in Darfur before traveling to Egypt. Lee said between 20 and 25 members of the Egyptian Parliament were chosen to meet with the delegation.

What is up with these Senators and Congressmen? Somehow, I wonder if the President has been replaced by the Aflac Duck....



Further news on this situation, Sen. Hoyer has denied having "personal meetings" with the group's member.....

Hoyer: No Meeting With Muslim Group

CAIRO, Egypt (AP) - A top U.S. Democratic congressman said he did not have ``personal meetings'' with a member of Egypt's largest opposition group, the banned Muslim Brotherhood, during a recent official trip, a spokeswoman for the American lawmaker said Sunday.

House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer's spokeswoman, Stacey Bernards, said the Maryland Democrat and his bipartisan delegation participated in a meeting Thursday with members of Egypt's parliament including Mohammed Saad el-Katatni, who is the leader of the Brotherhood's parliamentary bloc.

Hoyer also ``spoke briefly'' with el-Katatni later Thursday at a reception at the U.S. ambassador to Egypt's home, Bernards said.

What? I see Damage control in this article, and weak very weak...

"No I didn't have a personal meeting... we just hung out and partied Egyptian style, nothing personal.."



[edit on 2007/4/8 by JacKatMtn]

Originally posted by djohnsto77

These aren't official U.S. diplomatic ventures. Members of Congress have no more right to engage in diplomacy on behalf of the United States as you or I do. That is solely the realm of the President and his Secretary of State.

You are exactly right!

It is against the law! (what both of them did)

The Logan Act

The Logan Act is a United States federal law that forbids unauthorized citizens from negotiating with foreign governments. It was passed in 1799 and last amended in 1994. Violation of the Logan Act is a felony, punishable under federal law with imprisonment of up to three years.

The text of the Act is broad and is addressed at ANY attempt of a US citizen to conduct foreign relations without authority.

(Hmmm, a little off topic, but, I think Kerry might have broken this law during the Vietnam War!)

Background

Passed under the administration of President John Adams, during tension between the U.S. and France, it was informally named for Dr. George Logan of Pennsylvania, a state legislator (and later US Senator) and pacifist who in 1798 engaged in semi-negotiations with France during the Quasi-War.

I don't think anybody can say that their meetings had NO political intent!

It's not like they are personal friends and wanted to talk about "old times".



[edit on 9/4/07 by Keyhole]

Looks like some of Hoyer's friends have been arrested:

Egyptian police detain more Brotherhood members

CAIRO, (Reuters) - Egyptian police detained 10 members of the opposition Muslim Brotherhood on Thursday evening and Friday morning, part of a wider crackdown that has seen dozens arrested since late last year, the organisation said.
Nine of the detentions were in the Nile Delta province of Beheira northwest of Cairo and one in the capital, the Islamist group's Web site www.ikhwanonline.com said.

I found some intereesting reading here discussing the Muslim Brotherhood, Radical Islam, and other interesting information from our members, if you want to take a trip "Back in Time" and visit this thread from 2004:

Fox News says that bin Laden is a Nazi

page 3 - 4 mentions the Brotherhood but the whole thread is interesting.