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posted on Apr, 10 2007 @ 04:40 PM
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But you cannot have it both ways, as all these formal statements make plain. But for Christians who have been duped at first, but who have a conscience about what they have been told to believe - and look a bit deeper into the theology behind Masonry - then they have a choice to make. Like the late D.L. Moody said, if they choose to stay in Masonry, fine and good, but at least get out of the churches. They are being hypocrites thinking they can serve the false god of Masonry and at the same time profess allegiance to Jesus.

In Ephesians 4:15, the Apostle Paul commands us to speak the truth in love, which is what Jesus did His entire time on earth, especially to those who had sin in their lives or were rooted in their legalistic pursuit of Judaism. And that is what we are doing in pointing out the two-faced nature of Masonry.
PS Here's a question for you to earn extra credit or to show you might want to learn more about your institution. What did Manley Hall say, even before becoming a Mason, was the heart of Freemasonry? Verbatim if you don't mind. Show us your intellectual honesty in answering this.
That doesn't say much for the integrity of your post Masonic Light
Come on lets see the spin on this one.




posted on Apr, 10 2007 @ 05:00 PM
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Originally posted by 2l82sk8
I'd never say "Christians" as a whole are behind the hate of homosexuality or anything. Im Christian, however I am not homophobic, nor do I hate anyone for being homosexual. I may be in the minority here on ATS, but it doesn't mean I am the exception and they are the rule.

...and the irony here is that many freemasons, probably the majority, are Christian themselves. Many homosexuals are Christian. And I am sure there are homosexual freemasons who are Christian.

The point here is that everything is interwoven. There is no US and THEM, just degrees of WE. Some people are living in a fantasy world and really need to get over themselves



Not that there is anything wrong with being a WASP.

WASPs can have a nasty sting, as anyone who has messed with one will tell you



posted on Apr, 10 2007 @ 06:22 PM
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Originally posted by Andy Warhol
What did Manley Hall say, even before becoming a Mason, was the heart of Freemasonry? Verbatim if you don't mind. Show us your intellectual honesty in answering this.


He said that Freemasonry was "Divine Truth".

Kind of blows a hole into your whole argument, huh?



posted on Apr, 10 2007 @ 06:51 PM
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Originally posted by Andy Warhol
Masonic light that's the best you can come up with.


Yes, showing that you have once again lied is the best I can come up with, and was sort of the whole point.


Ronald Reagan has often been referred to as a Freemason.


And the earth has been referred to as flat. What's your point?


President Reagan is not a Freemason although he is an honorary member of the Imperial Council of the Shrine.


Why? Because you say so?


President Reagan has on numerous occasions been involved in Shrine and Masonic functions throughout his career."


Really? So what exactly were these "functions"? Where were they held? When? What were they for? Are are you just blowing more smoke?



If Johnson would have continued he would have been a mason. He went to one meeting. He proably thought twice. Being pulled around by another man, blind folded, half naked, and being part of a all male club made him think otherwise.


That's something I'm quite proud of. Johnson, after all, was a complete idiot. The great men (Washington, Franklin, Revere, Hancock) not only completed all their degrees, but became leaders in the Craft. I'll take them over Johnson any day.


quote]
The major issue in determining whether Masonry is a religion is to look at its demands on the candidate.

Why do you keep going off-topic, trying to talk about religion? Religion is not the issue. Who the hell cares if someone wants to call it a religion? That's not the subject.




So Masonic Light, So you are saying you know more about why Masonry should not consider itself a religion than Albert Mackey, Joseph Fort Newton, Albert Pike, and Henry Wilson Coil, right? They all KNEW what it was - a religion. But you say you know more than they, right?


Just to set the record straight, your lie concerning this has already been exposed. Especially with Pike, who was very blatant:

Masonry is not a religion. He who makes of it a religious belief, falsifies and denaturalizes it. - Pike, "Morals and Dogma", p. 161.

Now you say that Albert Pike considered Masonry a religion. Pike really said the opposite as we can see. If you didn't already now, someone who makes a false claim about something someone said is called a "liar".


The four gentlemen I quoted are sine qua non four of the top ten or so of the most famous Freemason authorities of all time,


No, they're not. Indeed, outside of the United States, especially in Masonry's birth country of England, practically no one has ever heard of them.


yet you dismiss them out of hand because you are set in your beliefs.


I haven't dismissed them at all. I've only dismissed you. As for Pike, and to a lesser extent Mackey, one would be hard pressed to find someone who admires and respects them more than I.


These four - Pike, Mackey, Coil, and Fort Newton - are REVERED in the Scottish and York Rites especially because of their "mastery" of the true secrets of the craft. You can find plenty of information about any one of them on the Internet. I would be happy to give you several website references so you could judge for yourself, but somehow you leave the impression, like so many other closed-minded Masons, that you are oblivious to written proof by these famous Masons and others --admitting and even boasting that it is a religious institution.


Of course it's a religious institution. Duh.

Nobody said it wasn't a "religious institution". We simply said it's not a religion.


Your local lodge library should have copies of each of their important contributions to Freemasonry. If not, your lodge librarian is being delinquent in his duties to have such basic materials for all Masons in your lodge.


lol, that's a rich one. I own their books, and have been studying them since probably before you were even born.

Obviously, if someone wants to learn about what Pike wrote, they should ACTUALLY READ PIKE'S BOOK instead of kooky websites that have an obvious agenda in misquoting him. For those who'd rather READ Pike rather than just read ABOUT him, "Morals and Dogma" can be read online in its entirety here.



In an earlier post, I recommended not only the essay, The Masonic Lodge and the Christian Conscience, but also the sermon, Freemasonry and Christianity, by the late Alva McClain. McClain uses Mackey's definitive work on Freemasonry to prove the point we have all been making with you. Just read the sermon, that's all.


Thanks, but no thanks. Sermons aren't exactly my cup of tea.



But you seem far too closed-minded and seem to dismiss what we are helping you to see:


Again, who's this "we"? As for close-minded, perhaps you take a look in the mirror sometime.


the validity and overwhelming support for our thesis that Masonry is indeed a religion based on another god separate from the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, and father of our Lord Jesus Christ. How many Protestant denominations, and the Roman Catholic Church and Orthodox Christianity in all branches, have stated formal positions and written long explanations of why Masonry is a religious institution that is paganistic and is devoted to serving false gods? You tell me.


And yet once again, for the millionth time, why do you keep bringing this up. What in the world have I ever said that would even slightly suggest that I'm concerned with what Catholics, Protestants, and the Orthodox think?


If you decide that Masonry is a better religion for you than Christianity, that is fine.


I don't think that Masonry is a better "religion" than Christianity is. I do, however, think that Buddhism and Taoism are.


If men so choose, that is fine. The Bible says you will be asked for an account of why you rejected Jesus. Make your case before God as you are elevated to what your institution calls, "the celestial lodge above." Me, I shudder at having to tell God I did not believe in Jesus but chose instead to believe in the teachings of Masonry and the supremacy of something called Jahbulon.



And I shudder to think that your programming by the religious elite is so obviously complete.



posted on Apr, 10 2007 @ 06:55 PM
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Way to totally "Tap dance" around the whole topic.
And no you didn't blow a hole in the whole argument. It's plain to see that not even you can defend freemasonry. Go ahead and read what was posted before. Take your time I understand you need to U2U your brothers to discuss the issue and formulate a answer. Keep trying maybe you will get it right next time...
.

>>Freemasonry lacks the basic elements of religion:
>>• It has no theological doctrine, and by forbidding religious discussion at its meetings will not allow a Masonic theological doctrine to develop.>• It offers no sacraments.>• It does not claim to lead to salvation by works, by secret knowledge or by any other means.>The secrets of Freemasonry are concerned with modes of recognition and not with salvation.



posted on Apr, 10 2007 @ 06:58 PM
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Joseph Fort Newton: "Everything in Masonry has reference to God, implies God, speaks of God, points and leads to God. Not a degree, not a symbol, not an obligation, not a lecture, not a charge but finds its meaning and derives its beauty from God the Great Architect, in whose temple all Masons are workmen." (Joseph Fort Newton, The Religion of Masonry -- Richmond: Macoy, 1969 -- pp. 58-59)

Again, for your information, Pike, Mackey, Coil, and Fort Newton are REVERED in the Scottish and York Rites especially because of their "mastery" of the true secrets of the craft. You can find plenty of information about any one of them on the Internet.

Please see the second post hereunder.

Now the question turns to the issue of whom does Freemasonry consider "profane?"

The answer: we who are not Masons, including all women, men outside the institution, and young males under 21, are profane, And from the analogy I also used earlier with government clearances for access to classified information, we are pointing out that such a clearance system, denying access to those outside government, and denying access to more and more sensitive levels of intelligence to those in government without the necessary clearance, is analogous to the system of obligations, demands, and perquisites of Masonry. Those in Blue Lodge are not told what obligations, demands, or perquisites are in the advanced degrees. And only those at the very top, the 33rd degree, have been allowed access to the essential core beliefs.

Therefore, to mount a case for or against the institution as religion requires honest and diligent research on as broad an effort as possible. And only by reading the likes of Mackey, Pike, Coil, Fort Newton, Carl Claudy, Lynn Perkins, inter alia, can a more reliable picture of the institution be visible.

And in so doing, as numerous such "scholars" have done, the conclusion shared by many, including major Protestant denominations, the Roman Catholic Church, all branches of Orthodox Christianity, and many many Christian leaders, is that Freemasonry is indeed a religion and an antiChristian one that denies the divinity of Jesus Christ.

Non-Christian Masons can ignore such research and the conclusions. But the conscientious Christian Mason, once treated to such an exhaustive array of logical arguments based on all evidence, then must decide whether he stays a hypocrite in the lodge (and thus denies the divinity of Jesus Christ before others), or makes the hard and correct choice to separate himself from these unbelievers and to remove himself from being unequally yoked. >>The Bible, referred to by Freemasons as the Volume of the Sacred Law, is always open at every Masonic meeting.>I float this concept past you both for further comment.
The greatest compliment I could pay to my Lord and Saviour, is to build in me a temple dedicated to his teachings, his doctrine and his spirit.



posted on Apr, 10 2007 @ 07:00 PM
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Once a person has accepted Jesus Christ as his Lord and Savior, renounced all false doctrines, and promised to be in obedience only to Him, such a temple as you have indicated would most certainly be deemed to be in accordance with all of what I have stated. I recall a "byword", if you will, of a church I was once a member of: "WWJD" - "What Would Jesus Do?" These are thoughts that we, as believers in Jesus Christ, should most certainly endeavor to apply to any and all things we do. However, I have also found that try though we may, invariably we are going to stumble, regardless of how sincere and well-intentioned our efforts might be. Then, of course, God knew this when He invoked the Ten Commandments. His purpose was not to lay down a set of rules which He envisioned would be totally followed and adhered to by any of us. Hard as we might try, totally fulfilling those commandments, at all times, is impossible. I can recall a brother in the Lord telling me, "Just about the time I think I've got all Ten nailed down, "Thou shalt not covet" will jump up and bite me every time." What God was endeavoring to do was to show us that our reliance must be on Him. He was showing us that when relying upon our own endeavors (works) we will fall short of the mark every time. I'm sure there are others who can more adequately state what I am trying to say, but this is what an old, worn-out construction worker has gleaned from His Word.

This isn't to say that we should quit trying. It is just to say that we should always put our faith and trust in Him and in what His Written Word has told us. Given that, "What Would Jesus Do", for example, if He were to walk into a lodge room and say to those present, "Thou shalt have no other gods before me.", only to be admonished with, "You are causing confusion in the Craft, because our prayers are in the name of our GAOTU, and that is the symbol we use to represent all "gods" of all men, so as to not hurt anybody's feelings."?

Suppose it is on a night when the Entered Apprentice degree is being conferred upon someone, and Jesus just happens to walk in as the initiate is being told that what is essentially necessary for gaining admission into heaven is to live a good life and behave yourself. I wonder, "What Would Jesus Do?" The thought comes to my mind that He might say, "I am the way, the truth and the life. No ones comes unto the Father but by Me." I wonder if he would be admonished for causing confusion in the Craft?

So Masonic Light as the readers will be able to tell that you and the rest of your brothers can't defend the frat for crap.
But go ahead and reply I like to read masonic lies



posted on Apr, 10 2007 @ 07:02 PM
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Preachers preaching.
Trying to teach, but the only thing on their lips is creach. (spit, in other words.)

[edit on 10-4-2007 by SpeakerofTruth]



posted on Apr, 10 2007 @ 07:13 PM
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Originally posted by Andy Warhol


So Masonic Light as the readers will be able to tell that you and the rest of your brothers can't defend the frat for crap.
But go ahead and reply I like to read masonic lies


You just wrote an entire page of stuff without addressing a single point I raised. I haven't seen a Dodge like that since I sold my '67 Coronet.




posted on Apr, 11 2007 @ 06:48 AM
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Originally posted by Andy Warhol
And only those at the very top, the 33rd degree, have been allowed access to the essential core beliefs.

And you. Obviously.

Seriously dude, you should read ML’s reply. Especially this:


Originally posted by Masonic Light
Of course it's a religious institution. Duh.

Nobody said it wasn't a "religious institution". We simply said it's not a religion.




[edit on 11/4/07 by ConspiracyNut23]



posted on Apr, 11 2007 @ 10:42 AM
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Originally posted by The Axeman
Ah, but they do... whether they should or not.


:shk: I know, I know...


Originally posted by The Axeman
I think this is mainly society-at-large's problem for the most part. (snip)

And you're right -- those kinds of people can be anywhere. (snip)

At the end of it all we are our own keepers, (snip)

That is the beauty of Free Will. No one gets a free ride. We're all accountable for our choices.


Indeed. It is sad though, that there are so many that believe they have the right to infringe their free will upon others. :shk:

Thanks for your contribution to this thread.

2l8



posted on Apr, 11 2007 @ 10:50 AM
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Originally posted by ConspiracyNut23
Sorry 2l82sk8, I should have been more specific. I meant Christian fundamentalist who hold up Leviticus 18 :22 as god-given truth.

Heck, most modern Christians completely discount the OT. (here I go generalizing again
- mea culpa)


lol ConspiracyNut, I don't discount the OT at all, and actually think the OT is full of valuable lessons and insight... when it's not boring me with geaneology.


No appology necessary tho, but thanks for the clarification. I do understand what you mean when speaking of Christians, it is often the fundamental Christians that are less tolerant it indeed often seems...forgetting the 'hate the sin, but love the sinner' type of philosohphy. Though there are fine fundamentalists out there I am sure.

But it's the hyppocrits who ask WWJD? and think somehow he'd spread hate and prejudice and get in people's face and condemn them instead of loving them? :shk:



posted on Apr, 11 2007 @ 11:03 AM
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Originally posted by The Axeman
A sad state of affairs, to be sure. How on Earth can people expect to understand Christianity and be completely (or at leat mostly) ignorant to its roots?


I believe faith has a part in all religion, however faith is no substitute for knowledge, for how can faith grow without knowledge, anymore than knowledge of spiritual matters, can be known or grown, without faith?


Originally posted by The AxemanIt's like trying to undertand Geometry without first understanding basic arithmetic. It just doesn't make sense to me.


lol! I've used a similar analogy (using algerba or calculous) before. I think I like you Axeman.



Originally posted by The AxemanI find it no small coincidence that those same types of people are the ones who are most vocally against Masonry. Make no effort to understand, and yet fear what you do not understand...


More so, it seems their understanding is one sided, as is most prejudism. To the one's who stand on Christianity for their soapbox against the "religion" of Freemasonry, one would have to ask, WWJD? I'd say he'd say LOVE they neighbor as thyself.


Originally posted by The AxemanIt's really quite sad, IMO.


That is the cycle of ignorance and intolerance I'd so like to see come to an end. It is sad indeed, IMHO as well.

[edit on 11-4-2007 by 2l82sk8]



posted on Apr, 11 2007 @ 11:47 AM
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Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
It is not sad to me at all. Christ spoke of a God of love,light, forgiveness and compassion. The OT speaks of a mean and vengeful god... Nothing to be sad about. I have little regard for the OT other than the Ten Commandments.


Hmmm...I have regard for all Holy Scripture as I believe God allowed it to be compiled for our good and use and that includes the OT. I actually do find it a sad commentary when Christians disregard the Old Testament.

It reminds me of those whom the apostles were frustrated with. Those who had accepted Christ as their savior and yet...could not be further enlightened beyond that, because they were so stuck on the whole new love and light of Christ, believing, being baptised, being born again, being saved...the apostles called them babes in the word, still seeking milk when they should be ready for meat.

When someone comes unto Christ, their mind should thus be illuminated to understand the OT in a new way, their enlightenment should be enlarged through study, and they should gain more and deeper understanding than those who give it no spiritual thought at all. For a Christian to give it no thought at all, is in many ways, to be like those who are not enlightened by the light of Christ in the first place.

The God of the Old Testament is the same God of the New Testament.

Just because Christ spoke of a God of forgivemess, and He himself came into the world to be the carnal mortal son of God, not to condemn the world but to save the world...to be the light of the world...doesn't change that God is one Eternal being the same yesterday, today and tomorrow as far as we are concerned. The same God as the Old testament as He is in the New one.

What He taught in the OT was that the flesh is weak, and that sin seperates us from God. It teaches, carnally minded men were sinful, and that because of sin-there is consequence, because of laws, there is punishment for breaking them. It teaches us that disobedience and sin never is/was joy and that there must be justice, exacted whether we agree with the justice or not.

It prepares us to fully comprehend universal laws and see a divine plan. It prepares us for the coming of the savior-which would meet the demands of justice, because mercy cannot rob justice. God can have mercy on us, but only through His son, through a blood sacrifice can justice, and the ends of a law be fullfilled.

IMHO, to disregard the Old Testament is to nearly put to naught the Crucifiction of Christ. To not appreciate the OT, is to not fully appreciate Jesus Christ, what His atonement meant, was for, and why. Furthermore, it does not lead one to understand fully, the complete gospel of Jesus Christ which the apostles had wanted to teach the multitudes...but which multitudes were hard of hearing because they could see no furhter than the joy of just being saved by Christ....and it often seems the same today.

The OT testifies not of merely of a vengeful God (though he does claim "vengeance is mine") but of the principles of sin, consequences, justice, a divine plan, and the need and the promise of a messiah. It is hard for me to disregard that in my journey for illumination, truth, enlightenment.



posted on Apr, 11 2007 @ 12:28 PM
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Originally posted by Andy Warhol
the Apostle Paul commands us to speak the truth in love, which is what Jesus did His entire time on earth, especially to those who had sin in their lives or were rooted in their legalistic pursuit of Judaism.


Agreed


Originally posted by Andy Warhol
And that is what we are doing in pointing out the two-faced nature of Masonry.


Come again?!


Talk about a two-faced nature! How hyppocritical of you to be so maliciously antagonistic towards Masons as evidenced here, on a thread trying to promote tolerance, and you dare to compare yourself to the Apostle Paul and to Jesus Christ himself in your spiteful hateful pursuits?

How do you justify your obvious hypocrisy?

Seriously, I am asking you that direct question.

Please, don't give me 4 tiresome, off-topic posts, citing Freemason's or Anti-femasons, or "experts" on Freemasonry, giving definitions of freemasonry trying to prove your opinion on whether or not Freemasonry is a religion, etc, when all I am asking you about is your personal approach, and obvious dislike and defamation of freemasons and obvious Christian hypocrisy here.

You've taken my thread to be your personal soapbox and it is not. You make a fool of yourself acting as the epitome of intolerance and becoming the anti-freemasons intolerant fool poster boy incarnate.

I created this thread to learn about those who are anti-freemasonry and why, and for that, you have been useful to some extent, and annoying as well. You have proven to me, that indeed, ignorance and intolerance are at the root, along with religious bias, as I suspected all along for some of you.

In answering me, spare me your "plaster tire tracks, foot prints, dog smelling prints, and twenty seven eight-by-ten color glossy photographs with circles and arrows and a paragraph on the back of each one explaining what each one was to be used as evidence....or your pictures of the approach, the getaway, the northwest corner the southwest corner and that's not to mention the aerial photography.... of Freemason's lodges, and Freemasons themselves as your tenacious rhetoric implies you may be so inclined to want to go to great lengths...just to see yourself in print I suppose.

(excerpts from the song "Alice's Restaraunt" above by Arlo Guthrie)


Originally posted by Andy WarholThat doesn't say much for the integrity of your post Masonic Light


Dear Sir, do you think you've shown any integrity in yopur posts on this thread?


Originally posted by Andy Warhol
Come on lets see the spin on this one.


Well, you've got the
part right, at least you are up front about what you are doing here-baiting and flaming others for your own amusement and purpose.

You've made this more of a childish sandbox really, and you are the one throwing sand. No spin needed.

I'm trying to be tolerant of your presence here, though you are annoying and test my limits-thankfully you've not really posted directly to me. I don't imagine you'd have much to say to me though.

One more question, other than Freemasons, what other groups do you intolerantly crusade against?

Just curious-make a list if need be-and no explanations of why please, just the names of the group, religion, etc. that would be enlighteneing and I'd consider that a real contribution to the purpose of my thread here, if it's not too much to ask. Thanks.


[edit on 11-4-2007 by 2l82sk8]



posted on Apr, 11 2007 @ 01:39 PM
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Here's some more info. on Reagen for you masonic light.

www.vaticanassassins.org...

And now to 2l82sk8 justify what hypocrisy? That masonry really lies. The masons on this board can't even defend the so called "craft." I can take on all these masons with both hands tied behind my back. The scholars of masonry have stated in many of their books that masonry is a religion, two faced organization, and lies to new comers as to the real intention of the lodge. But these clowns posting on here know so much more then the scholars do such as Hall, Pike, and many others. Let me see here I feel a...
coming on here.

If you or anyone else has a problem with what I have posted report it to the moderators of the board and they can have it removed. So until then quit the crying and temper tantruams. I have just as much right to be here as anyone else. Like god said in the bible,"There shall be no other gods before me." You don't like what I have to say hit the ignore button
As far as a list of what religions I don't like...any religion that denies Chirst's sheeding of his blood for sin is out. Clear enough? I do not have to lay down like a dog and read lie after lie put forth by the so called "members of the craft."

I have asked many questions here and many have not been answered at all. Do I throw huge hissy fits? No.

Then I quoted from four very well known Masonic authors from their specific writings, each saying the institution is in fact a religion.

Albert G. Mackey: "The religion of Masonry is cosmopolitan, universal...." (Albert G. Mackey, An Encyclopedia of Freemasonry and Its Kindred Sciences, vol. 1 -- Chicago: Masonic History Company, 1921 -- p. 301.)

Henry Wilson Coil: "Religion is espoused by the Masonic Ritual and required of the candidate"; and, "Freemasonry is undoubtedly religion"; and, "Many Freemasons make this flight [to heaven] with no other guarantee of a safe landing than their belief in the religion of Freemasonry." (Henry Wilson Coil, A Comprehensive View of Freemasonry -- Richmond: Macoy, 1973 -- p. 186.)

Albert Pike: "Masonry...is the universal, eternal, immutable religion...." (Albert Pike, Morals and Dogma of the Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite of Freemasonry -- Charleston, SC: Supreme Council of the 33rd Degree for the Southern Jurisdiction of the United States, 1927 -- p. 219)

Joseph Fort Newton: "Everything in Masonry has reference to God, implies God, speaks of God, points and leads to God. Not a degree, not a symbol, not an obligation, not a lecture, not a charge but finds its meaning and derives its beauty from God the Great Architect, in whose temple all Masons are workmen." (Joseph Fort Newton, The Religion of Masonry -- Richmond: Macoy, 1969 -- pp. 58-59)

Again, for your information, Pike, Mackey, Coil, and Fort Newton are REVERED in the Scottish and York Rites especially because of their "mastery" of the true secrets of the craft. You can find plenty of information about any one of them on the Internet.

And yet these brothers of craft know much more then the scholars of masonry....



posted on Apr, 11 2007 @ 01:42 PM
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And here just so Masonic Light can read about Reagan heres something else.

Member, 33rd degree Shriner (Imperial Council of the Shrine), and Scottish Rite Freemason. Certificates and ceremony conferred by the Grand Lodge of the District of Columbia, ceremony held in the White House on February 11, 1988. Among those in attendence: Raymond F. McMullen, Grand Master of Masons of the District of Columbia; Francis S. Paul, Sovereign Grand Commander of the Scottish Rite, Northern Masonic Jurisdiction; and Voris King, Imperial Potentate of the A.A.O.N.M.S. (Shrine) of North America. A complete copy of the Certificate is printed at page 67 of the 1988 Grand Lodge D.C. Proceedings - first announced in April, 1988, The New Age Magazine (now called The Scottish Rite Magazine to downplay its spiritual beliefs), published by the Scottish Rite, Southern Jurisdiction.[5]

www.vaticanassassins.org...

Look it up yourself. It's there I have the Magazine at home also.



posted on Apr, 11 2007 @ 01:55 PM
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The God of the Old Testament is the same God of the New Testament.


Well, that's what the mainstream says... I don't see it, but, to each his/her own.



posted on Apr, 11 2007 @ 05:02 PM
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Originally posted by Andy Warhol
Here's some more info. on Reagen for you masonic light.

www.vaticanassassins.org...


Oh yeah, I'm sure that's a factual and unbiased website!




And now to 2l82sk8 justify what hypocrisy? That masonry really lies. The masons on this board can't even defend the so called "craft."


Sorry, Warhol, you've been caught with your pants down. You have not been able to show one single lie from Masons. In fact, you quote all these Masonic authors as if they are the infallible spokesmen of ultimate truth. In reality, you give even more credence to what they said than Masons do.

On the other hand, it's been shown time and time again that you have lied repeatedly. The Pike thing, for example. You claimed that Pike said Masonry was a religion. I proved you were lying by quoting Pike, who actually said the opposite of what you claimed. This makes you a liar, and everyone here knows it by now.


For the OP:

Although we disagree on religious issues, it is certainly refreshing to see a professed Christian who actually follows the teachings of Jesus. The fakes on this thread were beginning to make me lose faith in the Christians, so I appreciate your comments. They reminded me that there still are real Christians out there, even though guys like Warhol try to give your religion a bad name.



For those interested, the true story about Ronald Reagan and Freemasonry is available on Brother Paul Bessel's website here.

President Reagan was never a Mason. On Feb. 11, 1988, a group of Masons and Shriners visited the White House and presented him with a couple of certificates. It should come as no surprise that Warhol has lied to everyone here yet again.

[edit on 11-4-2007 by Masonic Light]



posted on Apr, 11 2007 @ 05:28 PM
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Originally posted by Masonic Light
... it is certainly refreshing to see a professed Christian who actually follows the teachings of Jesus. The fakes on this thread were beginning to make me lose faith in the Christians, so I appreciate your comments. They reminded me that there still are real Christians out there, even though guys like Warhol try to give your religion a bad name.

There are definitely some real Christians out here, who bury our heads in our hands in sadness at some of the ravings on this topic.

Matt 22 36-39.





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