OReilly and Geraldo Shout It Out - See It Here!!

That is my point. This story is more about a failure of our justice system than it is about illegal immigration. I don't think it is fair and balanced for Bill to spin the tragic death of two girls at the hands of a drunken driver into an illegal immigration issue.

If we stop illegal immigrants from entering this country, which we should, and deport the ones already here when they are caught commiting crimes, which we should, we will still have tragic drunken driving fatalities to deal with.

Illegal immigration and tragic drunken driving fatalities do not go hand in hand. No matter what bloviating Bill says.

Apples and oranges.

This is an interesting discussion, I thought I would try to find some more information for the members so you know the backdrop of this story..

This one here gives a pretty good synopsis and is up to date:

UPDATE: Teens' parents ask for end to argument and time to grieve

Friday, Colette and Alison's Father, David, wanted to calm the firestorm, saying they don't blame Virginia Beach for not sending Ramos to federal authorities after police arrested him for public intoxication.

"There's a media circus right now and everyone has their opinion, but the fact is our kids were killed," said Colette, "Right now we need time to grieve, we need time to figure this out and we would like laws enforced."

Now they hope the media frenzy will put pressure on the right people to effect change, sparing others from their pain.

I am trying to find the information on how this illegal should have been in jail in Chesapeake (adjacent county) and not on the road that evening.

I found a local article from WAVY TV 10 in the area which lays out the DUI
for Ramos which occurred in Nov 2006, This guy should have been in jail.
What do you think?

Suspect in accident that killed two teens convicted of DUI two months ago

10 On Your Side has learned that 22-year-old Alfredo Ramos was convicted in February on DUI charges from November 13, 2006.

The arresting officer commented in his report that Ramos "almost ran him down".

He was given a 90 day suspended sentence, fined $250, had his drivers' license suspended, and he ordered to participate in ASAP, an alcohol awareness program.

If you are interested in the Virginia Beach Police Chief's official statement on this situation you can find it here:

Statement from Beach police chief on Alfredo Ramos case

The chief lists the policies of the local law enforcement, and how it ties with the FED immigration policy. decent info for you if interested.





[edit on 2007/4/7 by JacKatMtn]

Was this real or staged?

I think it MIGHT have been real. They looked like they were both going to have heart attacks. But in the last minute they both immediately cooled down and were speaking in professional tones.

I don't know if it was staged or not .. could be. They cooled down VERY fast at the end. Either way .. they got attention and that was probably what they wanted.

FF, I think it's very real. I think the reason they cooled down so fast is that they realized how insane they looked and remembered they were being televised! Maybe someone said something to Bill in his earpiece or motioned to him and when he cooled down, Geraldo didn't want to look like an ass (too late!) so he stopped right away, too.

Funny!

Originally posted by Icarus Rising
BH, I think it was the other way around. Bill used the drunk driving fatalities to dramatize the illegal immigrant issue.

Exactly. That's what I meant, but said it wrong.

Wow this happened again and this time on the left coast in California and the victim was filmmaker Bob Clark and his son, it seems that California is handling it a little differently than Virginia Beach.

Bob Clark's DUI Killer, Illegal Immigrant, Will Be Deported to Mexico

Today there's an update on the situation -- IESB is reporting that the driver, a 24-year-old illegal immigrant without a license named Hector Velazquez-Nava, has had an immigration hold put on him by the U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement agency, which means that once his legal proceedings are complete, he'll be placed directly into deportation proceedings. Velazquez-Nava was charged with vehicular manslaughter and investigation of DUI. If he posts, he'll be taken into federal custody.

Now we can compare the two tragedies, and the path to Justice.

Funny... when someone uses questionable points to support a pro- Global Warming agenda, the ends justify the means.

But when someone uses questionable points to support an anti- Illegal Immigration agenda, it's just spin.

Gotta love it.

How do you figure?

Spin is spin. It doesn't matter what the subject is.

Global warming is a particularly difficult subject to get to the bottom of because of the multitude of factors involved. Some of them are human factors, but whether the human factors are the determining ones is open to debate.

Here we have just two factors: illegal immigration, and drunk driving. Imo, the one does not go hand in hand with the other.

I do agree, however, that taking illegal immigrants without licenses out of the equation would improve overall safety, and accountability, on the road.

GW is difficult to get to the bottom of because of the multitude of fraud involved. But the supporters of the fraudulent supportive data declare the end justifies the means.

Even if illegals account for 1% of the drunk driving incidents in this country, that is 1% that can actually be minimized. M.A.D.D. be damned.

Arguing from this perspective is hardly spin. It's all numbers. So in this case the end really does justify the means, as the means are statistically legitimate.

I honestly believe the means determine the end. Fraudulent spin accomplishes nothing but dissolution. There is simply no end to it.

I do agree with your statistical analysis, as my previous post shows.

Originally posted by Icarus Rising

I do agree, however, that taking illegal immigrants without licenses out of the equation would improve overall safety, and accountability, on the road.

Did this illegal immigrant even have a drivers license?

Are illegal immigrants even allowed to get drivers licenses?

I think that's nuts if they are allowed to get drivers licenses in a country that they are in illegally.

It should be illegal for an illegal immigrant to have a drivers license in a country that he is in illegally!

The without license part was redundant, but I threw it in there for clarity.

As far as I know, no state allows illegals to apply for driver's licenses, although CA was working on some kind of crazy plan, and there are plenty of illegals driving around with fake licenses, I'm sure.

Kansas tried it, but it got shot down pretty quick. The Governor Kathleen Sebelius is a strong illegal sympathizer. It's funny to watch her bills get vetoed by the senate all the time.

I want to know what makes anyone believe that if this man was not in the country that this tragedy would not have happened?

That man may not have killed them, but who is to say someone else would not have? For all we know, him being deported the first time would have set some kind of chain of events where these kids would have ended up being shot at a club.

Any number of things could have happened to them minus an illegal alien.

Originally posted by DYepes
I want to know what makes anyone believe that if this man was not in the country that this tragedy would not have happened?

That man may not have killed them, but who is to say someone else would not have? For all we know, him being deported the first time would have set some kind of chain of events where these kids would have ended up being shot at a club.

Any number of things could have happened to them minus an illegal alien.

A man escapes from prison and gets arrested for drunk driving. He is not taken back to prison because the mayor sympathizes with criminals. He kills someone the next day.

Same exact concept. Whoever is not enforcing immigration laws should be tried for treason.

Originally posted by DYepes
That man may not have killed them, but who is to say someone else would not have? For all we know, him being deported the first time would have set some kind of chain of events where these kids would have ended up being shot at a club.

Ah... the good old "It was their destiny" bit.

Sorry. Fate does not exist. Cause and effect does. Eliminate the cause and there is no effect.

So deport this man and be done with it. Or let him rot in our prisons for 30 years then deport or execute or whatever you want to do. But lets not start assuming that illegals come here to get drunk and run over people.

Originally posted by Icarus Rising
How many drunk driving fatalities are caused by illegals as a percentage of the total, and their percentage of the population?

Ya know, I don't think that's the pertinent point here either. The point should be to try and stop all drunk driving accidents. Let's take it from that perspective, rather than the immigration one.

If we catch someone as a result of a crime, and find out that they're an illegal, then deport them immediately. Illegal entry should be a felony offense, first time. This way, the law could be enforced, and we can at least attempt to prevent any more accidents from happening. The loss of life should be the main focus here, not the nationality of the person committing the crime.

TheBorg

Originally posted by DYepes
But lets not start assuming that illegals come here to get drunk and run over people.

Noone is. Ok... some are. But not me. Regardless of my personal experiences with the illegal infestation, every person murdered by an illegal is a person that could easily be alive today. That is all that is being argued.

As you said, and with which I agree, deport them. Let them rot in prison. Execute every one that has taken the life of another. It's only fair.

Typical of Fox to make a news item about an illegal doing this.
Geraldo was right of course, whether the offender of a crime is illegal or not has nothing to do with this.

The mayor could have prevented this, and the parents of the offender could have as well, and the friends of the offender, and lots of other folks.

Crimes happen, people getting into the country happen, both different problems that require different solutions. Mixing stuff up like this is a bit weak.


But cool that they are passionate about their views, allthough I would have loved to see the chairthrowing. (is there a vid about that?)