King Herod murderer or madman?, page 1
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Topic started on 29-12-2003 @ 07:56 PM by yogibear
This was the title of a recent tv documentary that was
on discovery channel.
It was about the life and personality of the infamous King
Herod.

Like many other tv documentaries on disscovery, I found this
one informative and interesting.
However only up to a certain point was this show objective.
That is until they mentioned what some refer to as the massacre of the innocents.

The story goes that 3 wise men came to his court and
supposedly told him about a great king who was to be born in bethlehem.
When he heard this he supposedly when about killing all
the infants in Bethlehem.

The only evidence for this as the show admits, is one
passage or reference in the bible.
There is no other historical reference or evidence to support this.
This show mentioned one of the sources for Herod and
his reign was the historian Josephus.
In his writings however Josephus mentions many things
about Herod but not this incident. Why?

Some biographers of Herod have maintained that this
occurence is no more than a myth .
Michael GRant in his biography of Herod has also stated
this.

As this documentary mentions he was a brutal and paranoid ruler who had his wife and children murdered
on suspicion of treachery.
Based on this the show then concludes that it was very possible for him to go about murdering innocent infants.
That is if he thought they would have grown up to challenge his throne.
One psychologist interviewed on the show concluded
this based on his previous behavior.
Aside from that no other evidence is given but that one
scriptural evidence.

Where is the facts here in this case?
Anybody else seen this show and know anything about
this?
I still think this story about the massacre of the innocents
is simply a myth and nothing more.


reply posted on 11-1-2004 @ 09:21 PM by Seekerof
Yogi....
As to this:
"....then how is it they were not able to foresee the massacre of the infants?"

Perhaps because the "slaughter of the innocents" (ie: the male babies) quite possibly never happened. There are no mention by historian's of that time period, Josephus, mainly, never recorded such an occurrance.

"HEROD'S SLAUGHTER OF THE INNOCENTS: Matthew 2:16 describes King Herod's order that all of the boy infants who had not reached their second birthday in Bethlehem and vicinity were to be murdered. The date of that mass murder would give an approximate idea of Jesus' birth. Unfortunately for historians (and fortunately for the residents of the Bethlehem area) the killings never happened. If the children were killed, then historians of the era would have been certain to have recorded the event. Josephus would have been one. He wrote in great detail about even minor actions and decisions of Herod. The mass murder was never mentioned."
Link:
www.religioustolerance.org...


As to your other mentions:
"And how did they know that there was suppose to even be a king or messiah born in the 1st place?"

Ancient Biblical Prophecy is 'how'.

"Hundreds and even thousands of years BEFORE Jesus was born in Bethlehem, the Old Testament Prophets predicted His coming. Their predictions were not just general ones that "a Messiah, a Saviour, will come" etc., but SPECIFIC prophecies about places, times and events that have been fulfilled in only ONE person who has ever lived--JESUS of Nazareth! In this brief lesson we have chronologically arranged several of the most outstanding Old Testament Messianic prophecies in the actual verbatim text of the Scriptures and followed them with their New Testament fulfillments.

HIS BIRTH

PROPHECY: Nearly 750 years before Christ's birth, the Old Testament Prophet Isaiah prophesied: "The Lord Himself
3. shall give you a sign; Behold, a VIRGIN shall CONCEIVE, and bear a SON, and shall call His name Immanuel."--Isaiah 7:14.


FULFILLMENT: In exact FULFILLMENT of this prophecy, Mary was a young VIRGIN engaged to be married to Joseph, a carpenter of Nazareth, when the Angel Gabriel appeared to her saying that she would bear a child. "Then Mary said to the Angel, `How shall this be, seeing I have not laid with a man?' And the Angel answered, `The HOLY GHOST shall come upon you, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow you! Therefore that holy One which shall be born of you shall be called the SON of GOD."--Luke 1:26-35. (Immanuel means "God with us", and for those of us who have received Jesus into our hearts, that's Who He IS: God is WITH us!)


PROPHECY: "For unto us a child is born, unto us a Son is given: And the government shall be upon His shoulder: And His NAME shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, the MIGHTY GOD, the Everlasting Father, the Prince of Peace!"--Isaiah 9:6. (Prophecy given 740 B.C.)


FULFILLMENT: This shows that the ancient Jews, unlike most modern ones, believed that God had a SON--Who was to be born in the flesh and Whom the prophecy said was to be called "The Mighty GOD".


PROPHECY: Micah, prophesying in the eighth century B.C., predicted the exact village where the Messiah would be born: "You, BETHLEHEM, though you are small among the clans of Judah, yet out of you shall He come forth unto Me that is to be RULER over ISRAEL; Whose existence has been of old, from EVERLASTING."--Micah 5:2. (Prophecy given 710 B.C.)


FULFILLMENT: The Gospel says "Jesus was born in BETHLEHEM of JUDEA."--Matthew 2:1. Although the Jews knew that their Messiah was to be born there (Matthew 2:4-6), they didn't, as a nation, accept Jesus as their ruler. Nonetheless, the prophecy says that He "IS to BE ruler". This takes place spiritually now for those who voluntarily accept His Messiahship, and will SOON take place LITERALLY by FORCE at His Second Coming!


Jesus' existence, as the prophecy says, "has been of OLD, from EVERLASTING". Jesus said, "Before Abraham was (around 2,000 B.C.), I AM."--John 8:58. He was here referring to Himself as the eternal God Who revealed Himself to Moses in the burning bush as: "I AM THAT I AM"(Exodus 3:14), the eternal Son of God! (See also John 1:13,14.)"


Link:
www.anzwers.org...



Hope this helps.



regards
seekerof


reply posted on 11-1-2004 @ 09:29 PM by Seekerof
As for King Herod....
He was not mad, per se' but then again, in truth, he was not a Jew or of Jewish descent. King Herod was Arab: "Herod was not actually of Jewish blood. His mother Kypros was an Arab, his father Antipater an Idumaean, and neither of them was of royal lineage. The little that did seem Jewish about him was a veneer which had been applied to his ancestors by violence. Herod meaning "descendent of heroes" shows how little of Jewish spirit his father had absorbed when he gave his circumcised son a name out of Greek mythology. Herod had a frenzy for power. No tyrant in history ever was more hated than Herod was hated by the people who worshipped there. They resented an man not of their blood, he was an Arab from Ashkelon, a tribal warrior, ferocious enough to win many a battle, shrewd enough to be an expert politician, but no true king of theirs. By turns Herod had tried being cruel and kind. Having despoiled their treasury, and with the very money he had filched from them, he built a magnificent house of God. The people took this new temple to their hearts but they barred him from entering any part of it. It may be clear to others why Herod had been called the great, but to the Jews it has always remained a mystery. He was the arch-murderer of his time. He murdered 45 members of the Sanhedrin as well as his family and all the children of Bethlehem.

Herod was married ten times. Of his family those who cross the New Testament were: Herod Philip the First - First husband of Herodias, Herod Antipas - Ruler of Galilee and Perea, second husband of Herodias. Archelaus - Ruler of Judea, Samaria and Idumaea. A thoroughly bad ruler, Herod Antipas was deposed and banished. Herod Philip the second - called Philip also in New Testament as King of Judea meaning almost all of Palestine."


Link:
latter-rain.com...


In such, he was simply "a tyrant"....cunning and viscious mixed with a bit of "madness".



regards
seekerof
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