Originally posted by Xtal_Phusion
How did you arrive at these population counts? Did your sources take into account the fragility of human remains? The vast majority of biomass decays and most of what people make does the same.

you are assuming this number was arrived at by counting bones
how ignorant
you extrapolate from the current population and work backwards
4 million is a conservative estimate
there might have been as many as 5 million or as little as 3 million

Originally posted by Xtal_Phusion
Is this the end of archeology? Has everything worth finding already been discovered? Case closed! Marduk has all the answers! Progress halts the instant faith substitutes exploration and this is in essence what you are asking me to do: believe you.

actually im telling you these are the facts
clearly you theorizing without them is worthless
as is your opinion if you don't know them

Originally posted by Xtal_Phusion
If you really think this case is closed, then your journey to find the answers is complete and you can feel free to move on to something else.

ok are you on something ?

Originally posted by Xtal_Phusion
I have not reached that point yet so until I see something more convincing, I have every intention of continuing to search.

starting your search in your imagination is doomed to failure

Originally posted by Xtal_Phusion
On one hand, I envy you for the satisfaction you feel in having a model that satisfies your curiousity but on the other, I am saddened by the haste with which you make conclusions that lead to abandonment of any new discoveries that happen to challenge your model.

this is the orthodox model
you can call it the scientific model if you like
I call it the correct one

Originally posted by Xtal_Phusion
If CNN came out with breaking news tomorrow that a previously unearthed Egpytian crypt contained a fully assembled Crooke's tube, what would happen to your theory?

useless speculation once again
if you knew anything about the AE you would have picked a better example

Originally posted by Xtal_Phusion
If anthropologists stopped looking because they thought they had found everything already, then it would be a horrible shame to miss this!

Anthropologists do not study egyptian tombs
do you know anything at all ?

Originally posted by Xtal_Phusion
Granted that specific event has not happened, but others like it have time and time again throughout history;

for instance ?

Originally posted by Xtal_Phusion
something called, "The Dark Ages". I respect your oppinion and accept the possibility that you may be right but at the same time, I have learned through my own personal experiences that most of the time, the truth lies halfway between extreme polar opposites.

the truth is arrived at by examining dacts collected as empirical data
how comes you don't know that ?

Originally posted by Xtal_Phusion
Yes, the Earth was round but it was not the center of the solar system.

thats a religious belief not a scientific one

Originally posted by Xtal_PhusionYes, the Earth has oxygen now but it didn't start out that way.

once again you are creating a strawman argument, the belief that the world started with oxygen is a religious one
are you religious ?

Originally posted by Xtal_Phusion
Yes, populations squeeze through bottlenecks when nature throws a curve ball but let's not underestimate the survival instinct here. Everyone agrees that there was a significant amount of migration going on. If people did not have the technology to adapt, there would be fewer habitable places for people to migrate to and people would be more concentrated, if not as concentrated as we believe (since we cannot possibly know; we were not there!) they should be to become civilized.

technology and migration do not go hand in hand
ask a swallow what technology it uses on its yearly migration
your logic is extremely faulty

Originally posted by Xtal_Phusion
Dilution would be a bigger issue if adaption to harsh climates actually occured. Inuit are one example of a culture that has adapted to these climates but lack what we consider technology (not to be confused with culture). Was this sort of living the rule rather than the exception in such circumstances? Not necessarily. When we look at the world today, where do we find the most technological progress? I would argue that necessity truly is the mother of invention and that Inuit solutions may not have applied to people who held a different system of beliefs and values.

inuit adaptation is a result of the environment they migrated to
if they couldn't adapt they wouldnt be there
it has nothing to do with technology
the ability to hunt tundra fauna is not a technological advancement, it is a learned skill

Originally posted by Xtal_Phusion
In addition, food sources available to the Inuit were not universally available to everyone else and this in itself would have triggered the development of alternative strategies (weapons, life style, etc.) to keep these other populations fed. They must have survived because I am not Inuit! The Inuit were not known for making trans-Atlantic whaling trips either but one Native American group did just that during the ice age and genetic evidence ties them to the Basque.

nothing ties the basque to the inuit, clearly you've been reading the wrong websites

Originally posted by Xtal_Phusion
Let's throw out the bathwater when it gets cold but try not the pitch the baby with it. I came here to learn, not to poop on someone else's party.

there is no baby in the bathwater and no one is throwing it out
what you are doing is creating a series of straw man arguments and then pointing out the obvious error in them
are you doing this to appear intelligent
do you know what a link is
this forum is not for unqualified opinions
it is for evidence
in future try not to sound off so much and try to post a link t something that will advance the discussion
cheers




[edit on 15-4-2007 by Marduk]

wow marduk,you didnt know that camels evolved before everything else?
They dominated the planet for the first of the six thousand years that the planet has been around.

Perhaps you should start picking on the person who created that site. I had no interest in camels whatsoever and couldn't care less about them. My interest was in the people and I still don't see your source for the census statistic of 4 million people. Still waiting... I would rather post peer-reviewed literature but I cannot do so without knowing whether or not members have access to the journals (you could come right back and tell me I made it all up then!). If you do, then we can bypass the camels and get back on topic. Otherwise, I will simply hit ignore the next time I see something that is more silly than serious so I can quit wasting time on this silliness. Feel free to do the same if you are so certain I must be stopped from pursuing this futher at all costs.

It seems to me you are more interested in picking on people than learning or teaching anything. I cannot say I did not try to work things out with you. In all honesty, I think you are just annoyed that you went through a great deal of trouble typing out a translation that turned out to be false. Given your spite, I cannot even consider discussing anything further with you. I will continue to search on my own and continue my discussions with others who have at least a rudimentary background in the process of intellectual debate. I am sorry you are so unhappy and I can only hope that whatever is disturbing you, it is resolved before you tread upon the toes of someone who actually takes you seriously.
P.S.- Mensa does not accept people who are "slow on the uptake" and neither does Harvard. I make mistakes like everyone else but I learn from them and refrain from taking out my anger on others. Yes, I am new here but that does not automatically make me a "newbie" punching bag for your entertainment. Everyone here deserves respect and I feel that you are falling far short of your obligations to others in this forum. Perhaps, you might feel more at home in the Skunkworks?

Originally posted by Xtal_Phusion
It seems to me you are more interested in picking on people than learning or teaching anything.

are you saying you havent learned anything from me
you havent learned for instance that the world population at the end of the ice age was around 4 million
how bizarre

Originally posted by Xtal_Phusion
I cannot say I did not try to work things out with you. In all honesty, I think you are just annoyed that you went through a great deal of trouble typing out a translation that turned out to be false.

what are you talking about
are you hallucinating, the only thing false around here was your attempt at theorizing without facts

Originally posted by Xtal_Phusion
Given your spite, I cannot even consider discussing anything further with you.

but you are

Originally posted by Xtal_Phusion
I will continue to search on my own and continue my discussions with others who have at least a rudimentary background in the process of intellectual debate.

you mean you will continue to discuss with people who make ignorant posts not based on any evidence

Originally posted by Xtal_Phusion
I am sorry you are so unhappy and I can only hope that whatever is disturbing you, it is resolved before you tread upon the toes of someone who actually takes you seriously.

ah so now its a personal attack on my character

Originally posted by Xtal_Phusion
P.S.- Mensa does not accept people who are "slow on the uptake" and neither does Harvard.

I find it very difficult to believe that you know anything about either
if thats true their standards have certainly dropped

Originally posted by Xtal_Phusion
I make mistakes like everyone else but I learn from them and refrain from taking out my anger on others.

you just claimed that you had learned nothing
are you bi polar ?

Originally posted by Xtal_Phusion
Yes, I am new here but that does not automatically make me a "newbie" punching bag for your entertainment.

then maybe you should understand how this works
claims without evidence are not valid in this forum

Originally posted by Xtal_Phusion
Everyone here deserves respect and I feel that you are falling far short of your obligations to others in this forum. Perhaps, you might feel more at home in the Skunkworks?

respect has to be earned
you have just posted one ignorant diatribe after another
when you were told the facts you didn't accept it
that will not earn you any respect from anyone
claiming youre a member of mensa and attended Harvard is another claim of yorus without evidence
in fact theres a lot more evidence to the contrary seeing as you just got served because you didn't
1) have any evidence
2) ignored evidence that was offered to you
3) refused to admit you were wrong

I believe Marduk means well, but isn't very socially well adapted. He aims to be exact with the facts, which is commendable, but seems to jump on people who make errors.

X-tal, so you made a few errors, no big deal, but your aim was one of discovery, which is what ATS is all about.

Actually I think the two of you would get along just fine if things were a bit less heated. You seem to be basically on the same page give or take a few minor details. I hope the future holds better conversations for you two. My recommendation ... stick to discussing the material, and not each other.

As for me, I'm done with this thread as the topic is a Hoax and not worth discussion. There are far better threads on ATS to discuss than a spark plug in mud.

[edit on 15-4-2007 by Terapin]

Xtal_Phusion
I apologise if I have upset you
but you should know
I don't make any blanket statements about anything that I don't have evidence for
if someone asks for the evidence then I'm happy to post it
its up to them to then read it and understand it and then use that to advance their knowledge
check out the forum motto
are you following it you think by ignoring the evidence ?

Originally posted by Terapin
..a spark plug in mud.

[edit on 15-4-2007 by Terapin]

Oh yeah! Right. So your evidence is based on what a bunch of amateur spark plug collectors thought it was! As to why it was found on a mountain top 4000 feet high is no big deal.

And has Ford been asked to provide the details of the type of spark plugs fitted on its Model T in the 20s as claimed by these amateur spark plug collectors? Or is there available the same type of spark plug that was found? Surely Armstrong must've produced hundreds if not thousands of this type to be fitted on Ford's cars? Where are they? Why all this halla baloo over a darn spark plug? It would have been a pretty simple matter to solve if the same spark plugs of the same lot from Armstrong were made available for comparison. Why wasn't this done? Or was this spark plug one of a kind?

that is just saying that is the sun having its last day in the old year and its first morning in the new year.
it has nothing to do with lightbulbs
if it had maybe it would have depicted "Seker" the god of light somewhere in the mural
it doesn't
so its a complete non starter
and anyway
that temple as already pointed out dates from the greco- Roman period
so if the egyptians knew about lightbulbs so would the greeks and the romans
and they didn't
or we would have
and we didn't
so work it out for yourself Mike
there are mysteries
and then there are mysteries
this is just a hoax designed by Von Daniken to sell books

he went bust last year
apparently because there are not enough gullible people around to buy into the refuse he's shovelling
i say apparently
should that be allegedly in your case ?

Yer darn'd right! I was a fan of Daniken once upon a time. But heck! Why should an omnipresent God ride on a chariot of fire??

Oh, never mind!

Cheers!

Originally posted by Marduk
chariots of fire is that other movie

That movie? A movie about Jews priest who won Olympic medallion?
How many Olympic medallist in this world? Why no movie about them?

Was the movie made by Steven Spielberg? Another Jews? A Jews made a movie about Jews?



Just how many English medallist compared to Russian medallist?

since the olympics began the uk have won 190 gold medals thats about 1 for every 300,000 people of its population
the soviet union has won 478 which is about 1 for every 300,000 people of its population
shall we compare the amount of medals won between christians and muslims compared to their populations now ?

Originally posted by Marduk
since the olympics began the uk have won 190 gold medals thats about 1 for every 300,000 people of its population
the soviet union has won 478 which is about 1 for every 300,000 people of its population
shall we compare the amount of medals won between christians and muslims compared to their populations now ?

Are those numbers for Gold only or all three of them?

Olympic is a race between country not religion, anyway it is a good idea, do you have the data?

could well be from an ancient advanced civilization, they foiund a map 120 million years old, i belive it is on a rock or some thing like that, but it shows there were people,creatures, demons, gods or what ever before us.