Proof Of Advanced Civilization 500,000 Years Ago?, page 4

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reply posted on 15-4-2007 @ 05:15 PM by Marduk
Originally posted by Xtal_Phusion How did you arrive at these population counts? Did your sources take into account the fragility of human remains? The vast majority of biomass decays and most of what people make does the same. you are assuming this number was arrived at by counting bones how ignorant you extrapolate from the current population and work backwards 4 million is a conservative estimate there might have been as many as 5 million or as little as 3 million Originally posted by Xtal_Phusion Is this the end of archeology? Has everything worth finding already been discovered? Case closed! Marduk has all the answers! Progress halts the instant faith substitutes exploration and this is in essence what you are asking me to do: believe you. actually im telling you these are the facts clearly you theorizing without them is worthless as is your opinion if you don't know them Originally posted by Xtal_Phusion If you really think this case is closed, then your journey to find the answers is complete and you can feel free to move on to something else. ok are you on something ? Originally posted by Xtal_Phusion I have not reached that point yet so until I see something more convincing, I have every intention of continuing to search. starting your search in your imagination is doomed to failure Originally posted by Xtal_Phusion On one hand, I envy you for the satisfaction you feel in having a model that satisfies your curiousity but on the other, I am saddened by the haste with which you make conclusions that lead to abandonment of any new discoveries that happen to challenge your model. this is the orthodox model you can call it the scientific model if you like I call it the correct one Originally posted by Xtal_Phusion If CNN came out with breaking news tomorrow that a previously unearthed Egpytian crypt contained a fully assembled Crooke's tube, what would happen to your theory? useless speculation once again if you knew anything about the AE you would have picked a better example Originally posted by Xtal_Phusion If anthropologists stopped looking because they thought they had found everything already, then it would be a horrible shame to miss this! Anthropologists do not study egyptian tombs do you know anything at all ? Originally posted by Xtal_Phusion Granted that specific event has not happened, but others like it have time and time again throughout history; for instance ? Originally posted by Xtal_Phusion something called, "The Dark Ages". I respect your oppinion and accept the possibility that you may be right but at the same time, I have learned through my own personal experiences that most of the time, the truth lies halfway between extreme polar opposites. the truth is arrived at by examining dacts collected as empirical data how comes you don't know that ? Originally posted by Xtal_Phusion Yes, the Earth was round but it was not the center of the solar system. thats a religious belief not a scientific one Originally posted by Xtal_PhusionYes, the Earth has oxygen now but it didn't start out that way. once again you are creating a strawman argument, the belief that the world started with oxygen is a religious one are you religious ? Originally posted by Xtal_Phusion Yes, populations squeeze through bottlenecks when nature throws a curve ball but let's not underestimate the survival instinct here. Everyone agrees that there was a significant amount of migration going on. If people did not have the technology to adapt, there would be fewer habitable places for people to migrate to and people would be more concentrated, if not as concentrated as we believe (since we cannot possibly know; we were not there!) they should be to become civilized. technology and migration do not go hand in hand ask a swallow what technology it uses on its yearly migration your logic is extremely faulty Originally posted by Xtal_Phusion Dilution would be a bigger issue if adaption to harsh climates actually occured. Inuit are one example of a culture that has adapted to these climates but lack what we consider technology (not to be confused with culture). Was this sort of living the rule rather than the exception in such circumstances? Not necessarily. When we look at the world today, where do we find the most technological progress? I would argue that necessity truly is the mother of invention and that Inuit solutions may not have applied to people who held a different system of beliefs and values. inuit adaptation is a result of the environment they migrated to if they couldn't adapt they wouldnt be there it has nothing to do with technology the ability to hunt tundra fauna is not a technological advancement, it is a learned skill Originally posted by Xtal_Phusion In addition, food sources available to the Inuit were not universally available to everyone else and this in itself would have triggered the development of alternative strategies (weapons, life style, etc.) to keep these other populations fed. They must have survived because I am not Inuit! The Inuit were not known for making trans-Atlantic whaling trips either but one Native American group did just that during the ice age and genetic evidence ties them to the Basque. nothing ties the basque to the inuit, clearly you've been reading the wrong websites Originally posted by Xtal_Phusion Let's throw out the bathwater when it gets cold but try not the pitch the baby with it. I came here to learn, not to poop on someone else's party. there is no baby in the bathwater and no one is throwing it out what you are doing is creating a series of straw man arguments and then pointing out the obvious error in them are you doing this to appear intelligent do you know what a link is this forum is not for unqualified opinions it is for evidence in future try not to sound off so much and try to post a link t something that will advance the discussion cheers [edit on 15-4-2007 by Marduk]
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reply posted on 15-4-2007 @ 05:21 PM by Marduk
Originally posted by Xtal_Phusion www.telusplanet.net... Just to put everything in perspective. your time line is laughable it states 600,000,000 B.C. The Camel originated about this time and became extinct in America by 8,000 B.C. the very next line states 530,000,000 B.C. to 520,000,000 B.C. A burst of evolution known as the Cambrian explosion began about this time. It is believed the entire earth had just come out of a world wide ice age. so apparently Camels evolved before marine life quite a trick in future try and use a credible site wiki is rarely credible but at least it gets human civilisation correct en.wikipedia.org... Human civilization dates entirely to the Holocene. or for totally credible try berkley www.ucmp.berkeley.edu... the Holocene has witnessed all of humanity's recorded history and the rise and fall of all its civilizations [edit on 15-4-2007 by Marduk]
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reply posted on 15-4-2007 @ 05:55 PM by Cygnus_Hunter
wow marduk,you didnt know that camels evolved before everything else? They dominated the planet for the first of the six thousand years that the planet has been around.
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reply posted on 15-4-2007 @ 06:23 PM by Marduk
Originally posted by antar I have seen several unexplained space craft in my life and one thing that I have always noted and have not heard much if any about is the lighting on them. I have always seen the lighting as not man made or artificial light. I should start a thread on that one because it is so different than man made light, it is like capturing real light. ! those craft were obviously manned by Alien camels heres an artists impression of a camel from a different planet this of course means that the lighting you are referring to is simply camel lights heres an artists impression of them in action as you can see from the graphic, it was also alien camels that were involved in building the pyramids [edit on 15-4-2007 by Marduk]
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reply posted on 15-4-2007 @ 06:59 PM by Xtal_Phusion
Obviously a typo! Perhaps you should start picking on the person who created that site. I had no interest in camels whatsoever and couldn't care less about them. My interest was in the people and I still don't see your source for the census statistic of 4 million people. Still waiting... I would rather post peer-reviewed literature but I cannot do so without knowing whether or not members have access to the journals (you could come right back and tell me I made it all up then!). If you do, then we can bypass the camels and get back on topic. Otherwise, I will simply hit ignore the next time I see something that is more silly than serious so I can quit wasting time on this silliness. Feel free to do the same if you are so certain I must be stopped from pursuing this futher at all costs.
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reply posted on 15-4-2007 @ 07:52 PM by Marduk
you appear to be a little slow on the uptake so heres a graph or if you prefer We know that mankind came out of the last Ice Age after 2.5 million years of its development with only a 1-10 million world population members.shaw.ca... Around 25,000 years ago, the world's population may have numbered only about 3 million. Fifteen thousand years later, around 8,000 B.C., the total had probably grown by one-third to 4 million. It took 5,000 more years to jump one more million www.stanford.edu... so there goes your argument along with your flagging credibility care to try for double jeopardy where the scores can really count I'd love to know what number of people your imagination told you were present without you needing to resort to the facts ? gonna come clean and tell us ?
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reply posted on 15-4-2007 @ 08:52 PM by Xtal_Phusion
I find you extremely rude! It seems to me you are more interested in picking on people than learning or teaching anything. I cannot say I did not try to work things out with you. In all honesty, I think you are just annoyed that you went through a great deal of trouble typing out a translation that turned out to be false. Given your spite, I cannot even consider discussing anything further with you. I will continue to search on my own and continue my discussions with others who have at least a rudimentary background in the process of intellectual debate. I am sorry you are so unhappy and I can only hope that whatever is disturbing you, it is resolved before you tread upon the toes of someone who actually takes you seriously. P.S.- Mensa does not accept people who are "slow on the uptake" and neither does Harvard. I make mistakes like everyone else but I learn from them and refrain from taking out my anger on others. Yes, I am new here but that does not automatically make me a "newbie" punching bag for your entertainment. Everyone here deserves respect and I feel that you are falling far short of your obligations to others in this forum. Perhaps, you might feel more at home in the Skunkworks?
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reply posted on 15-4-2007 @ 09:03 PM by Marduk
Originally posted by Xtal_Phusion It seems to me you are more interested in picking on people than learning or teaching anything. are you saying you havent learned anything from me you havent learned for instance that the world population at the end of the ice age was around 4 million how bizarre Originally posted by Xtal_Phusion I cannot say I did not try to work things out with you. In all honesty, I think you are just annoyed that you went through a great deal of trouble typing out a translation that turned out to be false. what are you talking about are you hallucinating, the only thing false around here was your attempt at theorizing without facts Originally posted by Xtal_Phusion Given your spite, I cannot even consider discussing anything further with you. but you are Originally posted by Xtal_Phusion I will continue to search on my own and continue my discussions with others who have at least a rudimentary background in the process of intellectual debate. you mean you will continue to discuss with people who make ignorant posts not based on any evidence Originally posted by Xtal_Phusion I am sorry you are so unhappy and I can only hope that whatever is disturbing you, it is resolved before you tread upon the toes of someone who actually takes you seriously. ah so now its a personal attack on my character Originally posted by Xtal_Phusion P.S.- Mensa does not accept people who are "slow on the uptake" and neither does Harvard. I find it very difficult to believe that you know anything about either if thats true their standards have certainly dropped Originally posted by Xtal_Phusion I make mistakes like everyone else but I learn from them and refrain from taking out my anger on others. you just claimed that you had learned nothing are you bi polar ? Originally posted by Xtal_Phusion Yes, I am new here but that does not automatically make me a "newbie" punching bag for your entertainment. then maybe you should understand how this works claims without evidence are not valid in this forum Originally posted by Xtal_Phusion Everyone here deserves respect and I feel that you are falling far short of your obligations to others in this forum. Perhaps, you might feel more at home in the Skunkworks? respect has to be earned you have just posted one ignorant diatribe after another when you were told the facts you didn't accept it that will not earn you any respect from anyone claiming youre a member of mensa and attended Harvard is another claim of yorus without evidence in fact theres a lot more evidence to the contrary seeing as you just got served because you didn't 1) have any evidence 2) ignored evidence that was offered to you 3) refused to admit you were wrong
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reply posted on 15-4-2007 @ 09:06 PM by Terapin
I believe Marduk means well, but isn't very socially well adapted. He aims to be exact with the facts, which is commendable, but seems to jump on people who make errors. X-tal, so you made a few errors, no big deal, but your aim was one of discovery, which is what ATS is all about. Actually I think the two of you would get along just fine if things were a bit less heated. You seem to be basically on the same page give or take a few minor details. I hope the future holds better conversations for you two. My recommendation ... stick to discussing the material, and not each other. As for me, I'm done with this thread as the topic is a Hoax and not worth discussion. There are far better threads on ATS to discuss than a spark plug in mud. [edit on 15-4-2007 by Terapin]
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reply posted on 15-4-2007 @ 09:13 PM by Marduk
Xtal_Phusion I apologise if I have upset you but you should know I don't make any blanket statements about anything that I don't have evidence for if someone asks for the evidence then I'm happy to post it its up to them to then read it and understand it and then use that to advance their knowledge check out the forum motto are you following it you think by ignoring the evidence ?
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reply posted on 16-4-2007 @ 05:53 AM by mikesingh
Originally posted by Terapin ..a spark plug in mud. [edit on 15-4-2007 by Terapin] Oh yeah! Right. So your evidence is based on what a bunch of amateur spark plug collectors thought it was! As to why it was found on a mountain top 4000 feet high is no big deal. And has Ford been asked to provide the details of the type of spark plugs fitted on its Model T in the 20s as claimed by these amateur spark plug collectors? Or is there available the same type of spark plug that was found? Surely Armstrong must've produced hundreds if not thousands of this type to be fitted on Ford's cars? Where are they? Why all this halla baloo over a darn spark plug? It would have been a pretty simple matter to solve if the same spark plugs of the same lot from Armstrong were made available for comparison. Why wasn't this done? Or was this spark plug one of a kind?
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reply posted on 16-4-2007 @ 06:25 AM by Marduk
Originally posted by mikesingh Oh yeah! Right. So your evidence is based on what a bunch of amateur spark plug collectors thought it was! As to why it was found on a mountain top 4000 feet high is no big deal. "Are you sure it's a spark plug?" Stromberg asked? Figure 4 X-ray of a 1920s Champion spark plug provided by Chad Windham. "There's no question about it, " Windham replied, barely containing his laughter, "it's a spark plug." Stromberg asked Windham if he could identify the particular make of the spark plug. Windham replied he was certain that it was a 1920's era Champion spark plug. Stromberg was stunned by the collector's certainty, but Windham insisted that he had nailed the identification. Windham offered to send two identical spark plugs, the only possible but slight difference being the diameter of the packing nut at the base of the plug. Stromberg accepted Windham's offer and a few days later a package arrived in the mail. Ten days after the phone call with Windham, Pierre Stromberg received a phone call from Bill Bond, founder of the Spark Plug Collectors of America, and curator of a private museum of spark plugs containing more than two thousand specimens. Bond said he hadn't spoken to Windham, but said he thought he knew the identity of the Coso Artifact, "A 1920s Champion spark plug." Spark plug collector Mike Healy also concurred with Bond and Windham's assessment about the spark plug. The fourth collector, Jeff Bartheld, Vice-President of the Spark Plug Collectors of America contacted Stromberg via postal mail on October 18, 1999, and also confirmed that the artifact was a 1920s Champion spark plug. To date, there has been no dissent in the spark plug collector community as to the origins of the Coso Artifact. Since Chad Windham mentioned that spark plug collectors enjoy pulling pranks on one another, the question of deliberate fraud inevitably crops up in relation to the Coso Artifact. However, there is little hard evidence that the original discoverers intended to deceive anyone from the start. Pacific Northwest Skeptics investigated the Spark Plug Collectors of America. The group formed in 1975, well after the discovery of the artifact, and none of the three discoverers was ever affiliated in any way that the collectors can recall. Windham and Bond insist that while spark plug collectors enjoy hoaxing one another, they cannot imagine that any of their members would take a prank this far. Originally posted by mikesingh It would have been a pretty simple matter to solve if the same spark plugs of the same lot from Armstrong were made available for comparison. Why wasn't this done? Or was this spark plug one of a kind? Comparisons and Analysis I am enclosing two spark plugs made by Champion Spark Plug company circa - 1920's. Plug #1 is 7/8" - 18 thread. I have loosely assembled the plug, and chipped the "brass hat" off to show the configuration of it and the porcelain under it. Plug #2 is 1/2" NPT - of same design. The diameter of the porcelain on Plug #1 is slightly less than 3/4" - close to the dimension in your letter. As you can see the base and packing nut which hold the porcelain, are sealed with a copper and asbestos gasket. This corresponds with the article. The center electrode of plugs were made of special alloys which may support "...cut in two in 1961 but five years afterwards had no tarnishing visible." The sketches included clearly show one rib on the upper end of the porcelain, although Champion used two ribs in this era - probably just an artist's error. The "top hat matches those of "plug 1 and 2." As for the outer shell, it obviously decayed - probably from salt water (or other corrosive substance) and the outer crust is merely some sort of deposit like sea shells or other deposits collected on the deteriorating surfaces of the spark plug base. There is NO doubt that this is merely an old spark plug. Most probably, it is a Champion spark plug, similar to the two enclosed. let it go Mike its not worth it www.talkorigins.org...
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reply posted on 16-4-2007 @ 08:41 AM by mikesingh
Originally posted by Marduk Let it go Mike its not worth it www.talkorigins.org... OK, Marduk. As you say! But about that light bulb. You had given an excerpt which was pretty interesting. (That's what I call an analysis, not like some guys here who just say, ahh! That's bullsh#t. It's already been debunked!! ). So what do you make of this particular line which does mention something about light? Resomtus is alive with gloss in the sky (and) lives at the day of the New Year celebration. He lights up in its house in the night of the child in his nest, by donating the light to the country from the birth bricks. Now that's what needs to be deciphered!! Does it have any relationship with the light bulb? Cheers!!
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reply posted on 16-4-2007 @ 09:00 AM by Marduk
that is just saying that is the sun having its last day in the old year and its first morning in the new year. it has nothing to do with lightbulbs if it had maybe it would have depicted "Seker" the god of light somewhere in the mural it doesn't so its a complete non starter and anyway that temple as already pointed out dates from the greco- Roman period so if the egyptians knew about lightbulbs so would the greeks and the romans and they didn't or we would have and we didn't so work it out for yourself Mike there are mysteries and then there are mysteries this is just a hoax designed by Von Daniken to sell books he went bust last year apparently because there are not enough gullible people around to buy into the refuse he's shovelling i say apparently should that be allegedly in your case ?
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reply posted on 16-4-2007 @ 09:20 AM by mikesingh
Yer darn'd right! I was a fan of Daniken once upon a time. But heck! Why should an omnipresent God ride on a chariot of fire?? Oh, never mind! Cheers!
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reply posted on 16-4-2007 @ 09:28 AM by Marduk
chariots of fire is that other movie www.mp3dimension.com...
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reply posted on 16-4-2007 @ 03:43 PM by CinLung
Originally posted by Marduk chariots of fire is that other movie That movie? A movie about Jews priest who won Olympic medallion? How many Olympic medallist in this world? Why no movie about them? Was the movie made by Steven Spielberg? Another Jews? A Jews made a movie about Jews? Just how many English medallist compared to Russian medallist?
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reply posted on 16-4-2007 @ 05:11 PM by Marduk
since the olympics began the uk have won 190 gold medals thats about 1 for every 300,000 people of its population the soviet union has won 478 which is about 1 for every 300,000 people of its population shall we compare the amount of medals won between christians and muslims compared to their populations now ?
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reply posted on 16-4-2007 @ 09:13 PM by CinLung
Originally posted by Marduk since the olympics began the uk have won 190 gold medals thats about 1 for every 300,000 people of its population the soviet union has won 478 which is about 1 for every 300,000 people of its population shall we compare the amount of medals won between christians and muslims compared to their populations now ? Are those numbers for Gold only or all three of them? Olympic is a race between country not religion, anyway it is a good idea, do you have the data?
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reply posted on 17-4-2007 @ 06:27 AM by Vixion
could well be from an ancient advanced civilization, they foiund a map 120 million years old, i belive it is on a rock or some thing like that, but it shows there were people,creatures, demons, gods or what ever before us.
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