666 is NOT the number of the beast!

I actually remembered this the other day - we watch movies and hear all about Satanists and how they use the number 666 as the number of the beast etc. And again I had a laugh at all these dudes in black prancing around but totally oblivious to the fact that the number is actually 616! Now, I think if we have to look back in time, and not so far, this 666 has come a long way and "all that was evil" was related to being equal to, with some weird mathematical equation, to 666.

Now I have to ask another question, based on 616, if they went back and looked at the "evidence" that evil equated to 666 in some cases, what would they now do to get it to equal 616? For example H i t l e r was meant to equal 666, but based on A=101 and B102 etc etc. Why did they start with 101? So now Hitler is a holy man – he no longer equates to 666(evil)? Hmmm…

Ok but back to the point: So all these Satanists having 666 as their number. Hmmmm… well what do they do now? What happens to the tattoo that we will all be branded with if we do not follow the Antichrist? Does that change? Back to the drawing board for the Antichrist I’d say. Though he probably already knew it was 616 all along so we are still in the dwang.

www.worldnetdaily.com...

While many Bible have footnotes saying the number translated from the original Greek could be 616, experts say new photographic evidence of an ancient fragment of papyrus from Revelation indeed indicates the number is indeed 616, instead of 666.

Any thoughts on this?



[edit on 5/4/2007 by shearder]

yes.

new is always better.

the fact that 616 is a BORING number, and 666 is as fascinating as all get out(mathematically speaking) should have NO BEARING.

does anyone know ONE interesting thing about 616(besides being the ONE translation of a copy of the beast number that 'proves' all the other copies to be wrong)?

misguidance.

I am confused. Where does it say that 666 actually means 616?

The original text is in Greek and says this (Rev 13:18):

wde h sofia estin: o ecwn noun yhfisatw ton ariqmon tou qhriou, ariqmoV gar anqrwpou estin: kai o ariqmoV autou exakosioi exhkonta ex.

Source: www.greekbible.com

exakosioi exhkonta ex - translated means six hundred, sixty, and six.

Sorry the 616 theory is totally bogus in regards to the original text. It means exactly what it says and nothing else. 666 stands......hurray, because it is the basis for my antichrist theory of the flesh.



[edit on 5-4-2007 by ben91069]

Originally posted by billybob
yes.
new is always better.
the fact that 616 is a BORING number, and 666 is as fascinating as all get out(mathematically speaking) should have NO BEARING.

I have to agree with you.

Just wanna add that the Pythagoras Square of the Sun = 666
seems to be too divine to be evil


616 looks like more fun and might be integrated into the consciousness of all 'doomgazers' but I doubt the revelations in the bible will be rewritten...
but this might be just the 'secret' Tattoo for some hardcore Deathmetal bands.
Maybe existing tattoos on some people have a
- 50 added next to their 666 inkjob

In the King James Version of the Bible, the well-known verse of Revelation 13:18 reads: "Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six."

While many Bible have footnotes saying the number translated from the original Greek could be 616, experts say new photographic evidence of an ancient fragment of papyrus from Revelation indeed indicates the number is indeed 616, instead of 666.

I would suggest reading the external link. The ORIGINAL, on which the bible was (re)written, the translation indicated that it COULD, that means a possibility, have been 616. Now new evidence indicates it IS 616. That means it is correctly translated to 616 NOW and the 666 originally translated from the ORIGINAL text (as seen in the pic on the external page was infact wrong.

but again, go and have a read here: www.worldnetdaily.com...

[edit on 5/4/2007 by shearder]

You forgot something else -- when a lot of people believe into something, it's as good as true. But besides that 666 is correct 'evil' number. Actually it represents something else not just evil. Many 666-events in history actually helped humanity.

Originally posted by billybob
the fact that 616 is a BORING number, and 666 is as fascinating as all get out(mathematically speaking) should have NO BEARING.

Well I have to agree that the 666 is a more interesting number as was realised by Irenaeus

To be sure, his perspective was theologically motivated (he gave the interpretation of 666 as striving for perfection [represented by the number 7] but never able to achieve it). But the fact that he was writing in the second century tells us that BOTH numbers existed at that time.

The piece of papyrus that this was originally translated from is said to be 1700+ years old. And under a microscope the number ALSO appears to be 616. Though, yes, more tests need to be done, it is agreed by Daniel B. Wallace (Ph.D) where he adds

Actually, the verdict is not in on this one yet. I am inclined to the view that the original wording here was 616, but a lot of work is needed to determine this. Although this is the earliest fragment for this portion of Revelation, the fragment’s textual affinities and general reliability still need to be examined fully.

www.religionnewsblog.com... l-b-wallace-responds-to-article-on-the-number-of-the-beast

Now, though he basically leaves the door ajar on this; he has studied the fragment under a microscope and agrees with 616. Now what this means also does not change the fact that evil exists and people will still hang on to the 666 number - but I do find it interesting that it was basically known to be 616 and changed to 666 because the number looks better.

Another thing that intrigues me is that the anti-christ is actually not as significant as he, or his followers, may believe. I mean, in terms of how many times he is even mentioned in the bible would make one (me especially) wonder if he is even worth following (if one would be tempted). Ok - so his coming has been sensationalized by those who would follow him and darkness has been "prayed" to for hundreds if not thousands of years yet in the big scheme of things he is just a simple "speed bump" in what God has planned for us - insignificance as mentioned ONLY 4 times in the bible - I John 2:18, I John 2:22, I John 4:3 and II John 7. All by John too.

Ah well, I guess we shouldn't pay him as much attention as he has been getting all this time

Added (i'm getting old and forgetful): Also, "Dr. Aitken said, however, that scholars now believe the number in question has very little to do the devil. It was actually a complicated numerical riddle in Greek, meant to represent someone's name, she said. "It's a number puzzle -- the majority opinion seems to be that it refers to [the Roman emperor] Nero." www.religionnewsblog.com...

So where does that leave satanism? Hmmmm... they perhaps DON'T have a number... Man this is getting funnier the more I thin about it. But VERY interesting.

[edit on 5/4/2007 by shearder]

Originally posted by shearder
I would suggest reading the external link. The ORIGINAL, on which the bible was (re)written, the translation indicated that it COULD, that means a possibility, have been 616. Now new evidence indicates it IS 616. That means it is correctly translated to 616 NOW and the 666 originally translated from the ORIGINAL text (as seen in the pic on the external page was infact wrong.

but again, go and have a read here: www.worldnetdaily.com...

[edit on 5/4/2007 by shearder]

This source quotes the worldnetdaily article and adds this:

Source:
Catholic Apologetics International

Comments by Robert Sungenis:

Although it is true that a “616” textual variant for Apocalypse 13:18 exists, this has been known for quite some time. In fact, it has been known by modern exegetes for at least two hundred years, since the art of textual criticism came into vogue. The truth is, the evidence for 616 is negligible, even with the additional papyri evidence touted by David Parker and Ellen Aitken.

The number 666 also has papyri evidence to back up its superiority. It comes from the famous Chester Beatty collection, Papyrus 47, which dates from the second century A.D. Its papyri pedigree is thus older than 616, since 616's evidence originates from the third or fourth century papyri, also known as Oxyrhynchus Papyri, specifically, Papyrus 115 for the Apocalypse. As such, Papyrus 115 does not add much to the issue, except to confirm the existence of 616 as a variant text. Irenaeus, who died just a few years after the second century, rejected 616 as a scribal error (See Against Heresies 5, 30, 1).

The Greek reading for 666, “exakosioi exekonta ex” (600 + 60 + 6), not only has the oldest pedigree but also has the most prominent and numerous textual evidences and witnesses. Papyrus 47, Codices Sinaiticus and Alexandrinus (fourth-fifth century), as well as P, 046, 051, 1, 94, 1006 (and 13 other minuscules); with witness such as Irenaeus, Hippolytus, Origen, Victorinus-Pettau, Gregory-Elvira, Primasius, Andrew and Arethas, all follow the reading “666.”

Only Codex C (fifth century) and one unknown manuscript from Irenaeus and Tyconius have “616,” as translated from the Greek “exakosioi deka ex” (600 + 10 + 6). Hence, 616 has hardly any convincing evidence to its reliability.

666 makes a better song than 616.

"Six...one six...the number of the beast.."



Doesn't work.



[edit on 5/4/2007 by enjoies05]

Originally posted by ben91069
The number 666 also has papyri evidence to back up its superiority. It comes from the famous Chester Beatty collection, Papyrus 47, which dates from the second century A.D. Its papyri pedigree is thus older than 616, since 616's evidence originates from the third or fourth century papyri, also known as Oxyrhynchus Papyri, specifically, Papyrus 115 for the Apocalypse. As such, Papyrus 115 does not add much to the issue, except to confirm the existence of 616 as a variant text. Irenaeus, who died just a few years after the second century, rejected 616 as a scribal error (See Against Heresies 5, 30, 1).

And again, as i said, I posted links which need to be read. I do not discredit anyones opinion, however, the original that was interogated dated back 1700+ years - OLDER than the 2nd century and before Irenaeus translated what he had which i assume was papyrus 115.

Originally posted by enjoies05
666 makes a better song than 616.

"Six...one six...the number of the beast.."

Doesn't work.

I agree that 666 is a more attractive number

Originally posted by detonator
You forgot something else -- when a lot of people believe into something, it's as good as true. But besides that 666 is correct 'evil' number. Actually it represents something else not just evil. Many 666-events in history actually helped humanity.

I 100% agree with you. I am not trying to change the worl, but I did find the information pretty interesting. However, it won't change the scriptures ans that's not what I am aiming for

Originally posted by shearder
Another thing that intrigues me is that the anti-christ is actually not as significant as he, or his followers, may believe. I mean, in terms of how many times he is even mentioned in the bible would make one (me especially) wonder if he is even worth following (if one would be tempted). Ok - so his coming has been sensationalized by those who would follow him and darkness has been "prayed" to for hundreds if not thousands of years yet in the big scheme of things he is just a simple "speed bump" in what God has planned for us - insignificance as mentioned ONLY 4 times in the bible - I John 2:18, I John 2:22, I John 4:3 and II John 7. All by John too.

Ah well, I guess we shouldn't pay him as much attention as he has been getting all this time

How many times is this thread mentioned in the bible?? ..... i guess we shouldnt pay this thread much attention... its not like anything else life canging wasnt in the bible or anything...

perhaps we all need to forget these numberS? and Live Life???? i mean comon... if the Antichrist walks up to u and wants to kill u are u going to care what number repressents him? HONESTLY PEOPLE

it's based on the babylonian numbering system.
the beast is all about the beast empires starting with babylon.
the heighth of the golden statue they were supposed to worship
was 666 (forget the little measurement standard)
6 is the number of man, it means incomplete.

Satanists are imbeciles . Any sane person would know that numbers are arbitary depanding on which religion or culture you follow.In China and most of the Far East , the most evil number is 4 . Four when spoken sounds almost the same as the word for Death. Indeed in China ,Korea and some parts of Japan Apartment blocks or offices usually don't have a 4th floor. 666 has no significance in the Far East culturally. 4 has no significance in the West.The number 13 is unlucky for some. Why ? Because Friday the 13th was the day that the Knights Templars were betrayed by Phillip the Fair King of France. Yet the original USA flag had 13 Stripes & 13 stars for 13 colonies .If you are a believer in Judaeo-Christian faiths you should know that the mystery of 666 was solved many years ago.
Humans are Carbon life forms with an iron oxide blood , The Aliens that are known about are Silicon based life forms with copper oxide based blood.
Carbon has 6 electron 6 protons and 6 neutrons. This means that the beast
is humanity. We are the nightmare.Humanity is mostly evil. Evil is live backwards. Devil is lived backwards. The genuis of the creator is overwhelming. Those that live backwards are evil. Those that haved lived backwards become the devil. This is the collective unconcious. The collection of electromagnetic ,electrostatic ,gyroscopic images , sounds , nightmares, insanity , barbarity, cruelty and other vile acts.It is a coiled engergy spiral or serpent.The Earth is a giant Electrostatic , Electromagetic , Gyrascopic dynamo. It is the source of most of our gravity & most of our magnetic fields.It is mostly water and Iron spinning centrafugally . Ferrous Oxide is a great way to record
audio & video. The Earth records every single thing we do. It is the Database. When we die we release our soul which is electromagentic energy. If during our lifes our soul energy has increased through love peace wisdom compassion etc our soul is released from this planet . If our soul energy stays at 8v or decreases the life force returns (you return) to the molten iron core known as Hell .Some say that those souls that can shake loose from the energy serpent are reborn reincarnated.Conversely the collective conscious is the collection of all that is good.It is the source of inspiration ,creative , beautiful art music etc.
E=mc2 . We are energy .We are electric. We are magnetic.The Sun is the source of light for our plants for our food and light to see. We are urged by the intelligent , wise spiritual people to seek the light. Jesus is the light as are Krsna,Buddha,Visnu,Kon Tiki ,Viracocha etc etc.
But evil people try to trick us by deception .The false light of Lucifer (The Bringer of Light) isnt the light of the sun but the dull light of molten iron. Hell.

Honestly guy's. If the past was similar to the future, we can conclude that man was behind writing these so called words of god and prophecies. They create these to sway the mass's into their way of thinking.

It's why the Taliban killed people.
It's why Zionists want Israel because they're prophecy fulfillers. Years have gone by we will never know who actually wrote these books.

As for 616 and antichrist, its a bunch of baloney. What if the bible was man made, what if christ doesnt exist, would the antichrist need to be alive? 616? If you add them up you get 13 isn't' that the lucky mason number.

I have read the Bible ( It took me about 4 years) & the Koran (About a week) & the Bagavad Gita(a month), The Purana's & the Upanishads (a few weeks).
I believe in God. God is the supreme intellect . God is the Universe all things in it and all things beyond it.

The bible has been written by many dozens of people over many centuries. It isn't the word of God. The bible is ridduled with translation
errors, hypocricy and erroneous repetition & contradiction.
God is perfect .I don't believe God would create or inspire a book with so many errors. It's a shame so many people have died or been tortured for this.
Intelligent people have found these errors since the 1380's when the first English translation was made by John Wycliffe. It has taken many centuries for western scholars to get the translations right. Unfortuantely the bible remain more or less unchanged. The dead sea scrolls have also shown the new testament to be very inaccurate.
The Koran is also full of contradiction and errors. It is far more cohesive , but is far more psychological. When a person is bought up in an islamic family in a islamic culture, it is very difficult to find errors or even mention them.This is because the Koran fobids it and the penalties are severe.

Basically if you read a spirtual text and find errors , then clearly it is written by a human being.Thus it is not to be followed literally.

Most of the fanatics or fundamentalist have not read the books they promote. Most can not read abstractlly or critically . Instead they blindly follw other peoples interpretations creating factional strife, sectarian violence and absurd wars ,massacres or even holocausts.

I believe in God . I believe in Jeshua , Krsna, Shiva, Visnu,Buddha etc etc . There is only one God. And God may do as God wishes and is omnipotent & omnipresent. To say God is White or Black or Jewish or Arab or Aryan is absurd.Our understanding of God is predominately Judaeo Christian Islamic . But these versions of God are from a small speck of land in the middle east on a small planet in a small galaxy in an absolutely huge Universe. I think it is arrogant and selfish to believe that God is really like those described in these books , written in the dark ages by people that forbid any updates any ammendments.

fyi,
en.wikipedia.org...

When the name "Nero Caesar" is spelled with Hebrew letters as נרון קסר (NRON QSR—Hebrew vowels are not letters), each letter has a corresponding numerical value, N=50, R=200, O=6 N=50, Q=100, S=60, R=200, resulting in the sum of 666.
Some Greek manuscripts of Revelation have a different number. Here the number is not 666, but 616. If Nero is alternatively spelled as NRO instead of NRON, one gets 616; NRO minus N(=50).

So they both work for Nero.

So far as the beast (666) goes, look for a system of man, not a man. Seriously, is anybody gonna be fooled by some smooth talking European politician trying to stamp his name on their hands? That's the Catholic interpretation used to counter the Protestant movement (whom were calling the RCC the beast and its Pope the antichrist.) Because, imho, John is talking about Nero's Rome does not mean Revelation is not prophetic... it's an example/model. The idea of a global version of that system is not so far fetched. With the world getting so much smaller and interconnected; what happens when it collapses... just as Rome did?

The end of days.

Such an occurance is inevitable, imo and that's what John is trying to show us. Men will create and run this system... not a man. This is the reason most will be deceived, imo.

Regards,
-Rren

The revelations appeared as a vision, in a dream.

I do know for a fact in dreams, most times numbers appear upside down. 666...999!

Damn....I'm confused! Hahahahahaha