Hit the nail on the head. I make no effort.

There's no point. As you *so rightly* pointed out by calling me ignorant and oh, a cactus -I'm not armed with the intellectual backing and reams upon reams of knowledge about masonry that you people always require in order for us to validate our argument.

I have no energy for it.

I posted this thread cause I thought some people might be interested in Helen Miren's tattoo -NOT to engage in an overly discussed topic that I have already made my mind up on.

There's no point. As you *so rightly* pointed out by calling me ignorant and oh, a cactus -I'm not armed with the intellectual backing and reams upon reams of knowledge about masonry that you people always require in order for us to validate our argument.

Then I fail to see your point, entirely, with anything that involves this thread, and if this is your attitude, then no doubt any of your other threads.

On ATS you should be prepared to back what ever it is you claim with some form of evidence. A conspiracy site it may be, there is a certain standard.

I have no energy for it.

Right.

Okay, I couldn't resist.

If you want sensationalism, go somewhere else.
That kind of behavior is not welcome here.

Go to the National Enquirer or, even better suited to your level, the Weekly World News.

Oh, and you say that you're a thirty year old woman?
Well, perhaps it's high time to start conducting yourself like a lady.

You have successfully proven how little you know of the world and I applaud you for it.
By the way, you did resort to childishness in your posts, and you continue to do so.
It's sad, but you are right about something.
This site is losing it's "edge", as you put it, but only because of people like you.
To claim that you are open minded is an insult to actual open minded people who prefer to learn about their world rather than to make egotistical assumptions about it.
You know what they say about people who assume?
They run the risk of jumping to the wrong conclusions.

Oh, and don't bother calling me "kid", I'm the same age as you, at least chronologically.

You want sensationalism?
Go watch Oprah.
You want knowledge?
Come and engage in civil debate here on ATS.

End Statement.

Originally posted by Delta Alter
It may be a rune, it may be an Indian symbol - but it just as likely may be a symbol of Freemasonry.

So what if it is a masonic symbol, or a rune, or anyother damn thing for that matter.
Its a tattoo, its obviously fairly old judging by the fading and thickening of the lines, something she had done when in her own words "i was young and foolish".
Did you have a point in pointing out this tattoo. What if it is a masonic symbol, what would that mean, that Helen Mirren has cloven hooves and a pointy tail.
If its a nordic rune would that mean that she believes in Thor and Odin.
If its native american would that make her a shamen.
I dont get what your trying to infer.

How bizarre is that, just been down to the pub to watch the De la Hoya vs Mayweather fight and who's got front row seats - Helen Mirren.

OK, the battle for the last word ensues...............

I posted this thread because I am interested in people in positions of power and celebrity that have Masonic connections. So shoot me.

I am suspicious of ANY secret society that holds members in positions of power, for obvious reasons - and Freemasonry fits the bill there.

I am also suspicious of any group of WEALTHY businessmen that claims that they purely exist for philanthropy - again, for obvious reasons.

I am not an intellectual, but I have an opinion and I am certainly not ignorant or arrogant.

I posted this thread because the photograph interested me and I thought maybe it would interest other people - I did not say at any time that this was IRREFUTABLE PROOF that Helen Mirren is a Mason. I just thought it was a 'bit weird.'

And as you are Masons, and BOUND to defend your 'craft' I have no interest in debating with you on the topic because I am not interested in what you have to say. I was hoping to attract more 'like-minded' people to this thread. I am entitled to that as a member of this forum, despite what you say.

Oh, and by the way. Have you considered the fact that maybe you don't understand the full picture about your 'Brethren.'

You go to Masonic meetings as a way of getting away from 'er indoors?'

It looks like to me its a flattened out elongated square and compass. Or, two x's side by side. Aren't X's a symbol of the Illuminati?

Originally posted by Voyager1
It looks like to me its a flattened out elongated square and compass. Or, two x's side by side. Aren't X's a symbol of the Illuminati?

No idea, Voyager - but I would be very interested to hear more if you know anything about it

Whether you like it or not, you are going to get my opinion of your opinion...

Originally posted by Delta Alter
I am suspicious of ANY secret society that holds members in positions of power, for obvious reasons - and Freemasonry fits the bill there.

Incorrect perception #1. There are very few members of freemasonry that hold 'positions of power'. There are far far more non-masons holding the reins and any potential influence freemasons would be swamped.

Freemasonry does NOT fit the bill.

I am also suspicious of any group of WEALTHY businessmen that claims that they purely exist for philanthropy - again, for obvious reasons.

Incorrect perception #2. Freemasony is not a club of wealthy businessmen. There is a mix of people in my lodge in England, from professional people right down to a retired dustman. In lodges I have visited in Alabama the profile is even more 'working class'. I have met thousands of freemasons in my 14 years of membership and only half a dozen or so could be described as 'independently wealthy', no more or less than I might expect to meet in the general population.

Incorrect perception #3. Freemasonry does not claim to be a philanthropic organization. Its primary purpose is to act as a personal development program, and it achieves this through three major tenets - brotherly love, relief and truth. The giving to charity is as often done in private as it is publicized; and it is more accurate to describe the philanthropy as a by-broduct of its aims rather than the aim itself.

I am not an intellectual, but I have an opinion and I am certainly not ignorant or arrogant.

That would depend how you define ignorant, as you have demonstrated a stellar lack of knowledge of the real function and purpose of freemasonry, as opposed to the popular perception of the organization.

I posted this thread because the photograph interested me and I thought maybe it would interest other people - I did not say at any time that this was IRREFUTABLE PROOF that Helen Mirren is a Mason. I just thought it was a 'bit weird.'

And if you reread the thread you will find my attempts to answer this question, and even assist you in keeping the thread on track.

And as you are Masons, and BOUND to defend your 'craft'

Incorrect perception #4. Freemasons make no obligation to defend the fraternity as a whole, and for the most part over the last 200 years or so have maintained a dignified silence when baseless accusations have been bandied around. But more and more freemasons are becoming sick and tired of the misinformation which is being perpetuated on the internet, promulgated for the most part by innocent pawns who regurgitate theory and allegation without any basis in fact, and believe what they are told without further investigation.

I have no interest in debating with you on the topic because I am not interested in what you have to say. I was hoping to attract more 'like-minded' people to this thread. I am entitled to that as a member of this forum, despite what you say.

If you want to discuss kooky masonic conspiracy theories with people who will only agree with you, then you are in the wrong place my friend. Here all kinds of veiwpoints and preconceived notions are challenged and discussed.

Oh, and by the way. Have you considered the fact that maybe you don't understand the full picture about your 'Brethren.'

Alternatively, have you considered the possibility that a freemason of 14 years standing who has been actively delving into masonic conspiracy theory for over 5 years might know more about these things than a non-mason? If you have some value to add then please add it. Tell me specifics. Or, quite frankly, get off the pot.

You go to Masonic meetings as a way of getting away from 'er indoors?'

Incorrect perception #5.Most freemasons I know my age work far too long and spend far too little time with the family. The have been many month when my single evening at lodge has been the only social activity I have undertaken all month. Your simplistic attempt to portray freemasons as part of a 'war of the sexes' doesn't begin to cover the reasons why more and more 21st century men are finding such pleasure in freemasonry, and why they are generally supported in this by their wives.

I urge you to do some serious research into what freemasonry is really all about, and don't just take for granted what sensationalists and agenda-driven individuals have to say on the matter.

I don't care what the tattoo represents. She's still hot for an old lady.

Originally posted by Delta Alter

And as you are Masons, and BOUND to defend your 'craft' I have no interest in debating with you on the topic because I am not interested in what you have to say. I was hoping to attract more 'like-minded' people to this thread. I am entitled to that as a member of this forum, despite what you say.

1st, i'm not a mason, never have been and probably never will and know very little about it. I responded because you seemed to be inferring that because Helen Mirren has a Tattoo that you think is a masonic symbol that there is something strange going on. I dont get that at all.
2nd, if you post something on this site then you better get ready to defend your view point, because other members of this forum that dont agree with your position are also entitled to reply to your thread. Believe me i learnt that early on.

I haven't posted on these discusssion boards in quite a while. I laugh out loud; as it seems that nothing has changed in the year or two I have been idle. I remember the days of thinking that all masons were in cohorts against mankind, and that they secretly controlled the goings-on of many governments worldwide. I even decided to read morals and dogma, by Albert pike, looking for satanic references and whatnot. Then I pulled my head out of my stink-hole and realized that I was an idiot.

Masonry is a Way of life, to make one into a better person. To gain connections with lifelong friends. To attain knowledge of history, science, and divine alchemy. Not to spend hours stagnating on online discussion boards discussing some senior citizen's tattoo. The real conspiracy: I got a tattoo on my behind, a "B" on each cheek, now when I moon people they all yell "hi, BOB." haha.

But seriously folks. Why not research a real conspiracy against mankind, like the klan, or aryan nation, or anarchists. Something that actually conspires against mankind, not a society that tries to better people. I really think that all these mason bashers carry a serious personal resentment against masons, because you truly want what they have. But you are simply too lazy to seek it. Who are you going to rip on next? Alcoholics Anonomous? College fraternities? What a waste of time and effort to spend so much of your time resenting the other members on these boards. The internet is a powerful resource, it can give you the power to sound right, because Dr. Bob anonomous posted something about masonic conspiracy on his webpage. But where is his credability, or anyone's for that matter. If you want a real conspiracy against man, talk about the vast internet "scum pond" of "information."
Thank you for your time.

Nothing masonic about the symbol at all, it's a runic symbol that dates way back in European culture (celtic culture in particular I believe), a lot of White Supremacists use this symbol. Go on to a site like Stormfront and look at peoples avatars, you will see this symbol all over.

Maybe Helen Mirren is a white supremacist or something or just really into European culture.

I know that symbol. As mentioned in an earlier post it is a symbol of the "eastern star". My favourite aunt was a high degree member and told me about the organisation. Another sign is a purple rose. They are associated with the masons in as much as they follow the same degree system, are very secretive, but unlike the masons they are a much younger organisation being "In her words", founded in the early 20th century , 1910?.

They met regularly, were all females and very much labour based in political awareness. She worked most of her life in a carpet factory and a very high percentage of the females were members. I also know she was very high in rank in the eastern star.

That exact symbol/tattoo was on her regalia, her handkerchiefs and on a purple sash she wore.
Hope this helps.

Secondary to my earlier post, I just went looking through some of her stuff that I was left. There is a handkerchief with a star on it and the word.."fatal" written in the star, again it is purple. Im going to do some research online now about the meanings of the star and word. Thanks OP for this, I never realy thought much about her keepsakes till you posted.

Respects

[edit on 18-12-2008 by captiva]

Dear gentles,

I, too, have been fascinated by Dame Helen Mirren's tattoo; my wife Fayaway has a similar one, inspired by Ms. Mirren's, on her right ankle. Fay thought she read about it in Us or People sometime in the 1980s; I finally tracked it down to People Weekly, November 3, 1980--the caption to a photograph reads thus: "She says the hand tattoo is an American Indian symbol meaning 'equal but opposite.'" A noble sentiment, indeed!

This is not to say that everyone's theories are not correct, but it is helpful to have all of the pieces of the puzzle, I think.

Curiously,
Hermester Barrington,
Co-curator of The Invisible Library, Malibu Lake Branch

I searched Symbols.com and found out that her left hand contains alcohol damaged chromosomes.

Originally posted by captiva
I know that symbol. As mentioned in an earlier post it is a symbol of the "eastern star".

That symbol is not found in the Eastern Star.

My favourite aunt was a high degree member and told me about the organisation. Another sign is a purple rose. They are associated with the masons in as much as they follow the same degree system, are very secretive

The Eastern Star does not follow the Masonic degree system, nor is the Order secretive. The Order has only one degree, divided into five sections, which represent 5 women from the Bible, and the 5 points of the Eastern Star.

They met regularly, were all females

Eastern Star is not all female. The Order is for Masons and their female relatives, so is co-ed.

That exact symbol/tattoo was on her regalia, her handkerchiefs and on a purple sash she wore.
Hope this helps.

The symbol you saw was the square and compass, not the rune tattooed in the original post.

BTW, "F.A.T.A.L." is known as the "Cabalistic Motto". It stands for "Fairest Among Thousands, Altogether Lovely".

Originally posted by WayneMahar
Nothing masonic about the symbol at all, it's a runic symbol that dates way back in European culture (celtic culture in particular I believe),

Well, then you'd believe wrong. Nothing 'celtic culture' about it.

a lot of White Supremacists use this symbol. Go on to a site like Stormfront and look at peoples avatars, you will see this symbol all over.

Sadly, you're right with this part. However, only a fool would think that just because some White Supremacists use runes doesn't mean that runes are about White Supremacy. I'm sure many White Supremacists also like turkey and wear shoes; does that mean turkey eating and wearing shoes are a 'White Supremacist' thing? If it is a rune, then ᛝ doesn't have any meaning that has any relationship to racism or 'white supremacy'. It can be interpreted in a few ways but none of them have anything racist about them.

Maybe Helen Mirren is a white supremacist or something or just really into European culture.

That's pretty doubtful.

Edited for clarification

[edit on 27-3-2009 by Merriman Weir]