No Evidence That Global Warming is manmade, page 1


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reply posted on 2-4-2007 @ 02:53 PM by loam
Originally posted by TheAvenger
…I am a scientist…


What is your academic discipline?

Originally posted by TheAvenger
… and a signer of the Oregon Petition…

…disagrees with anthropogenic global warming…


State your case, then.

But since you are a signatory of the Petition, the statement you agreed to was the following:



”There is no convincing scientific evidence that human release of carbon dioxide, methane, or other greenhouse gasses is causing or will, in the foreseeable future, cause catastrophic heating of the Earth’s atmosphere and disruption of the Earth’s climate.”

Link.



How about “catastrophes” in the not so foreseeable future?

I’d also be interested in your take on this:



Case Study: The Oregon Petition

The Oregon Petition, sponsored by the OISM, was circulated in April 1998 in a bulk mailing to tens of thousands of U.S. scientists. In addition to the petition, the mailing included what appeared to be a reprint of a scientific paper. Authored by OISM's Arthur B. Robinson, Sallie L. Baliunas, Willie Soon, and Zachary W. Robinson, the paper was titled "Environmental Effects of Increased Atmospheric Carbon Dioxide" and was printed in the same typeface and format as the official Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences. Also included was a reprint of a December 1997, Wall Street Journal editorial, "Science Has Spoken: Global Warming Is a Myth, by Arthur and Zachary Robinson. A cover note signed "Frederick Seitz/Past President, National Academy of Sciences, U.S.A./President Emeritus, Rockefeller University", may have given some persons the impression that Robinson's paper was an official publication of the academy's peer-reviewed journal. The blatant editorializing in the pseudopaper, however, was uncharacteristic of scientific papers. Robinson's paper claimed to show that pumping carbon dioxide into the atmosphere is actually a good thing. "As atmospheric CO2 increases," it stated, "plant growth rates increase. Also, leaves lose less water as CO2 increases, so that plants are able to grow under drier conditions. Animal life, which depends upon plant life for food, increases proportionally." As a result, Robinson concluded, industrial activities can be counted on to encourage greater species biodiversity and a greener planet…

In reality, neither Robinson's paper nor OISM's petition drive had anything to do with the National Academy of Sciences, which first heard about the petition when its members began calling to ask if the NAS had taken a stand against the Kyoto treaty. Robinson was not even a climate scientist. He was a biochemist with no published research in the field of climatology, and his paper had never been subjected to peer review by anyone with training in the field. In fact, the paper had never been accepted for publication anywhere, let alone in the NAS Proceedings. It was self-published by Robinson, who did the typesetting himself on his own computer. (It was subsequently published as a "review" in Climate Research, which contributed to an editorial scandal at that publication.)

None of the coauthors of "Environmental Effects of Atmospheric Carbon Dioxide" had any more standing than Robinson himself as a climate change researcher. They included Robinson's 22-year-old son, Zachary, along with astrophysicists Sallie L. Baliunas and Willie Soon. Both Baliunas and Soon worked with Frederick Seitz at the George C. Marshall Institute, a Washington, D.C., think tank where Seitz served as executive director. Funded by a number of right-wing foundations, including Scaife and Bradley, the George C. Marshall Institute does not conduct any original research…


Doesn’t sound very scientific to me.




[edit on 2-4-2007 by loam]



reply posted on 2-4-2007 @ 05:20 PM by TheAvenger
Originally posted by loam
Originally posted by TheAvenger
…I am a scientist…


What is your academic discipline?


Chemistry. Thirty-five years experience. Unlike most here, I have actually tested for pollutants and atmospheric gases.


Originally posted by TheAvenger
… and a signer of the Oregon Petition…


Correct. Would sign it again.


[i
…disagrees with anthropogenic global warming…
State your case, then.


State yours. The burden of proof is with the believers. Why should I attempt to disprove something that does not exist? Prove to me IRREFUTABLY that man has caused "global warming" A CO2 chart will not impress me; I have seen them all. They are nonsense. The assumptions drawn from them are a crock. Bovine scatology.



But since you are a signatory of the Petition, the statement you agreed to was the following:

"There is no convincing scientific evidence that human release of carbon dioxide, methane, or other greenhouse gasses is causing or will, in the foreseeable future, cause catastrophic heating of the Earth’s atmosphere and disruption of the Earth’s climate.”…


Absolutely agree with it.

Further:

I am not interested in what some "believer" wrote to discredit the Oregon Petition. Anyway, this is about the lecture I posted, which you obviously did not watch, not the Oregon Petition itself. You will like the lecture, it has lots of the graphs and charts that you seem so fond of.


Doesn’t sound very scientific to me. .


I'd be happy to match my scientific knowledge and wits anytime. Global warming is not my religion like it is Al Gore's and....others.


reply posted on 2-4-2007 @ 07:07 PM by Rren
Originally posted by KhieuSamphan
Originally posted by loam
Burdens shift when the weight of the evidence is against what is advanced.

This might be a daft question, and I realise that what we are talking about goes above and beyond any such notions, but would such evidence stand up in a court of law, do you think?



... on that note:


Source
The US Supreme Court ruled Monday that the Environmental Protection Agency must consider greenhouse gases as pollutants, in a blow to the White House.

[...]

The harms associated with climate change are serious and well recognized," said judge John Paul Stevens as the ruling was carried by five votes in favor to four against.

Please visit the link provided for the complete story.



reply posted on 2-4-2007 @ 11:07 PM by loam
Originally posted by TheAvenger
I posted a lecture presented by another scientist here, whether you chose to watch and listen is your choice.


I did.

If anyone is interested, a written version can be found here:
Environmental Effects of Increased Atmospheric Carbon Dioxide

Originally posted by TheAvenger
It certainly is evidence,




Not for me, it isn't.

Originally posted by TheAvenger
If I annoy you, I suggest you add me to your "foe" list, use the ignore button...


You don't annoy me.

Originally posted by TheAvenger
or simply go somewhere else if you can't handle the scientific proof


On this matter, I have seen nothing proven.

Originally posted by TheAvenger
A.G.W. is B.S. I certainly have a great deal more.


Bring it on... I still want you to be right.


reply posted on 2-4-2007 @ 11:40 PM by Johnmike
Loam's use of misleading underhanded logical fallacies is impressive.


Originally posted by loam
Funny, I often think the same about those who are so keen on refuting the evidence with nothing more than a summary unscientific proclamation to the contrary.

Appeal to Ridicule

Originally posted by loam
At this point, your position is a lonely one…

Show me the science that effectively corrects this MASSIVE ignorance shared by the vast majority of the scientific community.

Bandwagon Fallacy

Originally posted by loam
Not for me, it isn't.

Argument from Personal Incredulity

Originally posted by loam
On this matter, I have seen nothing proven.

Argument from Ignorance


The problem is, that you have to prove that Global Warming IS happening, and that it IS happening because of humans. You can't prove that something doesn't exist, because nothing exists to prove! What TheAvenger is trying to say is that he doesn't think there's enough evidence supporting the theory that humans are causing global warming.


reply posted on 3-4-2007 @ 12:07 AM by loam
Originally posted by TheAvenger
Schwinger


schwinger.harvard.edu..." target="_blank" class="postlink" rel="nofollow">W. Aeschbach-Hertig’s Rebuttal of “On global forces of nature driving the Earth's climate. Are humans involved?” by L. F. Khilyuk and G. V. Chilingar

Originally posted by TheAvenger
physorg


You’re kidding, right?

Rebuttal of Vladimir Shaidurov’s Theory

Originally posted by TheAvenger
Deming


Mostly an opinion piece. Moreover, politics plays heavily on BOTH sides.

Here’s a more balanced view…
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