Mysterious ‘Tracks’ On Mars And The Moon!, page 2
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ATS Members have flagged this thread 9 times


reply posted on 10-4-2007 @ 04:33 PM by zorgon
Hey Mike...

Stll no answer to my letters... but they may not have gone through as I attached an image... I will try again...

Here is the track closeup brightened up a little and I added a closeup of that "ramp"





Mike's Martian Page 2

Two things to add...

Look at whats below and above your question mark...

And for the "rolling rock crowd" please tell me where the "rock" that created the large straight track disappeared to



[edit on 10-4-2007 by zorgon]


reply posted on 11-4-2007 @ 11:05 PM by mikesingh
Originally posted by zorgon
Hey Mike...

Stll no answer to my letters... but they may not have gone through as I attached an image... I will try again...

Mike's Martian Page 2


Sorry Ron, I was out of town for a bit! And hey! That was good!!
By the way I dunno whether you received my Mars images I sent you in a Power Point format. No reply from U2 so far!!


Originally posted by ArMaP
I think it's rock number "1" in the image below. The track starts on the right, like all other tracks, and ends on the left. The rock started to climb the ramp on the left but it did not had enough energy for that, so it turn a little to the right and stopped.

All other arrows point to things I think are rocks that made similar tracks, some more visible than others.


ArMap, though it was a good analysis, there are still a number of question marks!

1. Notice the slope. It is very slight towards the left of the image. Not enough for the 'stone' to have travelled a distance of about a km or so. The incline had to be much greater than that. And also notice the softness of the soil as the tracks are clearly visible. How could the 'stone' have moved this distance over soft soil? It would have got stuck a couple of feet away from its start point.

2. If the incline was toward the left of the image, how come the upper stone has gone against this incline toward the top of the image?

3. How can a near perfect arc be made by this 'stone' where at some stage it has gone against the incline? What force made it do so? Volcanic activity? I think not!

4. How come there are two parallel tracks by 'stones' at different locations? Must be a billiard table top for this to occur, but it isn't.

5. What's that ramp like structure where this 'stone' has started from? Check out Zorgon's enlargement of the ramp.

All said, there's more than meets the eye here. But hey, what do we know about tectonics on Mars??

Cheers!



reply posted on 12-4-2007 @ 04:47 PM by ArMaP
Originally posted by mikesingh
ArMap, though it was a good analysis, there are still a number of question marks!

1. Notice the slope. It is very slight towards the left of the image. Not enough for the 'stone' to have travelled a distance of about a km or so. The incline had to be much greater than that. And also notice the softness of the soil as the tracks are clearly visible. How could the 'stone' have moved this distance over soft soil? It would have got stuck a couple of feet away from its start point.
The distance travelled by the rock, if we use the 25cm/pixel that they say is the image resolution, is something like 100 metres, not 1,000. And I don't think that the ground is as soft as that, from what I have seen from the ground on Mars, it usually has a thin layer of dust over rocks.


2. If the incline was toward the left of the image, how come the upper stone has gone against this incline toward the top of the image?
Because there are two inclines. That dusty area in the middle is between two higher areas, one on the left, the other, higher, on the right.
That stone came, as all other stones, from the rocky area on the left, down the slope, through the more horizontal area until it reached the slope on the other side.

3. How can a near perfect arc be made by this 'stone' where at some stage it has gone against the incline? What force made it do so? Volcanic activity? I think not!
That is a perfectly common thing, let a stone or a ball run down a slope until it reaches another slope but not perpendicular to the face of the slope and the stone (or ball) will make an arc whose shape and radius depend on the steepness of the slope and the angle between the initial trajectory of the stone (or ball) and the face of the slope.

The is no need for any other force than gravity to do such thing, if we disregard the initial force that unblocked the stone to let it run down the first slope.


4. How come there are two parallel tracks by 'stones' at different locations? Must be a billiard table top for this to occur, but it isn't.
They are not parallel, they are almost parallel, and they are not straight. If you look closely, or even better, if you use a graphics program where you can draw a line over those tracks, you will see the one makes an arc in one direction and the other makes an arc in the other direction.

5. What's that ramp like structure where this 'stone' has started from? Check out Zorgon's enlargement of the ramp.
I will use my image, if you don't mind, I don't like those colours.
That "ramp", to me, looks like two areas of the rock that are more salient than the rest of the face of the rock, in the same way as to the left of the "ramp" there is an area where the rock is less salient than the rock face.

All said, there's more than meets the eye here. But hey, what do we know about tectonics on Mars??

What bothers me is that from a huge picture we are only looking at a small area and ignoring the rest just because of something that probably is only a rock.

Do yourself a favour, if you haven't seen the complete photo, go to
this page and download the "Full-Scale JP2".

You will need a program that can read JPG2000. Photoshop has a plug-in to read them, but I am using a plug-in from Lizardtech (ExpressView Browser Plug-in) that works with Netscape, Internet Explorer and Safari web browsers.

It is worth the trouble.

PS: I hope I did make any sense in my answers, I am too tired and I did not had enough time to re-read it.


reply posted on 13-4-2007 @ 11:26 PM by mikesingh
Originally posted by zorgon

On the Moon Tracks...

Mission Recordings... Apollo 15

Scott: I can't either. That's really spectacular.

Irwin: They sure look beautiful.

Scott: Talk about organization!

Irwin: That's the most *organized structure I've ever seen*!

Scott: It's (garble) so uniform in width.

Irwin: Nothing we've seen before this has shown such uniform thickness from the top of the tracks to the bottom.



It's no point Ron. Some guys on ATS will never agree that there could be something odd going on, on the Moon and Mars! The conversation between astronauts though crystal clear, is goin' to be put down as a hoax transmission, heard by some ham operator, made up conversation that never took place etc etc.

The darn problem here on ATS is that people go all out to debunk everything that doesn't fit into their scheme of things, using all their expertise, (Those who have it). But they will not use that expertise to try and go deeper into the issue and get to the bottom of it by intelligent analyses. And that's sad. ATS is not what it was. It's become more a place of pointless duels, of banal arguments. of oneupmanship, arrogance and discourteous posts. These guys have arrogated on themselves to trash everything and anything which could be termed an anomaly without intelligent arguments.

It's simply...

Oh that's trash!
You're imagining things.
Hoax.
I can't see anything.
Ha! Ha! Ha!
You're denigrating our scientists.
Stop wasting our time.
What a load of crap!!
Etc, etc.

I'm seriously thinking of quitting ATS for good as one cannot even discuss things here in an intelligent friendly fashion, except for a few members who are few and far between.

So I'll think I'll call it a day on ATS and join a site where at least we can discuss things in a analytical and friendly manner.



reply posted on 14-4-2007 @ 01:11 AM by Doc Velocity
Originally posted by mikesingh
The darn problem here on ATS is that people go all out to debunk everything that doesn't fit into their scheme of things, using all their expertise, (Those who have it). But they will not use that expertise to try and go deeper into the issue and get to the bottom of it by intelligent analyses.

I haven't seen "all-out debunking" on ATS... If you want to experience "all-out debunking," try the Skeptical Enquirer or any of the other hardcore skeptic sites — those guys will really give you grief. In my observation, the ATS "believers" seem to outnumber the "debunkers" by hundreds-to-one, which makes ATS a pretty liberal arena for kicking around ideas.

When I postulated gravity, seismic activity and meteoritic impact as likely explanations for any perceived movement or tracking formations on the Moon or Mars, I was using what I know of natural phenomena to explain that which you perceive as a mystery. That's not my "analysis," it's just conjecture — which is all we can accomplish by gazing at two-dimensional images. To my knowledge, nobody in ATS (nor on planet Earth, for that matter) is "qualified" to draw iron-clad conclusions regarding the surface of the Moon or Mars from two-dimensional images... If anyone was so qualified, we could save untold billions of dollars on interplanetary probes and hands-on exploration. We could just stay at home and learn everything in the universe from photos.

However, simply posing intuitive conjectures based on photographs is not "analysis," any more than is posing intuitive conjectures of aroma, texture and taste based on photographs of food. Hmmm, that looks good! If we study this photo dilligently, we may be able to deduce the recipe!!

Drawing conclusions (or, worse, jumping to conclusions) based on such sparse evidence is much less than science... It's more like anti-science.

Originally posted by mikesingh
I'm seriously thinking of quitting ATS for good as one cannot even discuss things here in an intelligent friendly fashion, except for a few members who are few and far between. So I'll think I'll call it a day on ATS and join a site where at least we can discuss things in a analytical and friendly manner.

Well, Mike, if you think Science is a friendly endeavor, I've got one more piece of discouraging news for you....

Just don't let criticism bring you down so easily, or you'll be miserable for the rest of your life. The best that you or anyone can do is remain true to your beliefs and wait for your critics to be proven wrong. In the meantime, have fun with your speculations, but don't expect scientists to be very accepting of anything that they didn't think of first.

— Doc Velocity

[edit on 4/14/2007 by Doc Velocity]


reply posted on 14-4-2007 @ 01:54 AM by mikesingh
Originally posted by Doc Velocity

Well, Mike, if you think Science is a friendly endeavor, I've got one more piece of discouraging news for you....

Just don't let criticism bring you down so easily, or you'll be miserable for the rest of your life. The best that you or anyone can do is remain true to your beliefs and wait for your critics to be proven wrong. In the meantime, have fun with your speculations, but don't expect scientists to be very accepting of anything that they didn't think of first.

— Doc Velocity


Doc, thanks for the encouragement! I fully understand that just based on 2-D photographs, one can't jump to conclusions. Right. Where on Earth have I ever categorically stated that 'hey! That IS proof of aliens. Or OMG! Have a look at that structure! It's been made by them aliens! Or Wow!! That dark shadow IS an alien sitting on an ice floe on Mars south pole!'

Those are outrageous claims that anyone in his right senses wouldn't venture to make. There's always a 'question mark' because a particular thing or structure looks intriguing. But when you get it out on ATS to get opinions, all one mostly gets as comments are:

You've really gone over the edge!
Rocks! Nothing but rocks!
Wild imagination.
You need to do your homework!
What a load of crap!
No offence, but I'm going to avoid your threads. A waste of time.
Etc, etc, etc.


Now that ain't intelligent conversation / debate. At least a scientist / analyst would tell you what it can't be and what it actually is, by intelligent analysis and reasoning. NOT one line wonders, as above. That's what gets my goat!


So I honestly think it's a darn waste of time reading the replies of these self styled pseudo analysts / scientists with hardly anyone (Which I can count on my fingers now) contributing to some good intelligent / analytical debate.

So what the heck am I doing here?

[edit on 14-4-2007 by mikesingh]


reply posted on 15-4-2007 @ 05:20 AM by ArMaP
Originally posted by zorgon
Now can anyone tell me whats special about THESE Martian Rocks?


That looks different from what I am used to see on photos from Mars.
The rocks do not have those peculiar shapes and all have more or less the same colour.

The ground also looks different, from what I have seen in the rover's photos, Mars' ground looks smoother, with a finer.

And here are some really interesting structures in a crater, in one of the polar regions...
One of the polar regions from what planet, Earth or Mars?
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