What do you suggest in the place of cultural awareness threads?

Originally posted by ceci2006
Well, I can't help that you posted a rant and knowingly used a member's post to incite an orgy of prejudice against non-white people.

I'm sorry that you don't feel the least bit of conscience over what you did.

But that is neither here nor there. And I have nothing more to say on this matter.

Your opinion ceci. "Don't like what I hear, oops, I'm not going to play."

I would like to hear responses to the issue of tolerance and cultural awareness now. I do not want to get into an argument over your thread or other past business.

Since when did ATS in general and the Social Issues forum in particular become YOUR soap box?

The pertinent issue has to do with how the Staff and the Administration will deal with tolerance and cultural awareness on the board.

I think the staff has been damn lenient with this issue.

I personally think that for the Administration to "Take a Stand" on this issue would defeat the very nature of the board.

That is not to say that individuals within the Administration (Intrepid) can not voice an opinion. Of course they can.

What I am getting here is a desire to "hear" an Administrative opinion on the subject. This goes against the very grain of free and unfettered expression of personal opinions and interest.

The Administration has in fact posted their opinion; it is contained with the Terms and Conditions and very clear. That opinion is simply that we may post our opinions within those standards...

Would not the insertion of an overall Administration opinion on any one given subject cause the board to be "Led" in a specific direction? I just can not see how this would be healthy for the free expression we all now enjoy...

Semper

Originally posted by intrepid

Your opinion ceci. "Don't like what I hear, oops, I'm not going to play."

Whatever. It is my opinion. But, I've been more than game here on this accord than you have. So, I'll take your reply as an insult.

Since when did ATS in general and the Social Issues forum in particular become YOUR soap box?

What does that have to do with the topic?

It is comments like yours that contribute to the discord instead of staying on topic and discussing it in full. That's why there are problems with the race-related threads in the first place.

I think the staff has been damn lenient with this issue.

I think you're quite right--especially when it came down to passing on members who replied to us with "Go Back to Africa" and calling us imbecilic for wanting to have a discussion about reparations.

The staff and Administration were especially lenient in the fact that instead of discussing the topic of this thread people were more interested in how many warns or bans they received on the board.

Yes, you're right on that one.



[edit on 6-4-2007 by ceci2006]

Originally posted by ceci2006

Originally posted by intrepid

Your opinion ceci. "Don't like what I hear, oops, I'm not going to play."

Whatever. It is my opinion. But, I've been more than game here on this accord than you have. So, I'll take your reply as an insult.

Now there's a frickin surprise.

Since when did ATS in general and the Social Issues forum in particular become YOUR soap box?

What does that have to do with the topic?

Another question unanswered. Another surprise.

I think you're quite right--especially when it came down to passing on members who replied to us with "Go Back to Africa" and calling us imbecilic for wanting to have a discussion about reparations.

They were especially lenienent in the fact that instead of discussing the topic of this thread people were more interested in how many warns or bans they received on the board.

Yes, you're right on that one.

Now you're living on Fantasy Island. The board is monitored by the T&C and no matter how much you would like to believe otherwise it's not moderated by the colour of a persons skin.

But I digress, I must be attacking you.

Well i can say that impartiality serves everyone on this board.

Situations and members, not issues, are taken one at a time and dealt with accordingly as they come about.

As a member I find some members points of view on certain topics personally offensive but as a mod it's my responsibility to make sure that every member even (actually especially) the ones I disagree with or outright find offensive are as free to speak their mind as I am.

As a mod I ask myself have they crossed the T&C of the site. If that answer is no, I cannot in good concience punish that member.

If a member feels another member or even a moderator has crossed the terms and conditions then that handy complaint button is incredibly helpful and the complaint will be given very serious consideration.

We cannot and will not take a specific stand on any given issue that is not the point of ATS.

The whole point of ATS is to be a place were completely opposite view points are allowed to meet, clash, converse and debate...in a civil manner.

Again all members are served best by impartiality that includes me, intrepid, semper, ceci, even SO and springer who both take their fair share of licks.

Spiderj

Having said all that, personally at this point I'm in favor of replacing the social issues forum with a self serve frozen yogurt bar with your choice of toppings and mix ins.

Any takers?

intrepid, I thank you for your participation on my thread. But, if you are going to spend time attacking the messenger, then it is time wasted here.

I would much rather hear from other staff on this aspect who can thoughfully answer on topic without trying to turn it into discord. And those are the staff members I would like to address this question instead of those who want me to "get down off of that cross".

I think that you've said enough here. And, I would appreciate that if you don't have anything else to address on the topic, that you just be a gentleman and leave this thread alone for the sake of others who would like to deal with this on the level.



[edit on 6-4-2007 by ceci2006]

I would suggest seminars/workshops on Culture, Awareness and Respect;

staff and the Administration ... what they can do to promote understand amongst all people here based on their cultural heritage and thinking.

Asked and answered....

Originally posted by Majic
ATS exists to provide a forum for members to share opinions and discuss topics of interest. It does not exist to promote any particular point of view or advocate any cause ....

No mandatory culture awareness and/or cultural heritage training.
That's not the purpose of this site.

Question for any mods listening in -

What is the purpose of this thread anyways?
Why does anything 'have to take the place of 'cultural awareness' threads'?
Nothing has been removed. Nothing has been banned.
Anyone can post anything that follows the T&C and that stays within the spirit of this site.
Threads that discuss race are welcome.
So what is the point of this thread?
Nothing has been taken away - so nothing has to be replaced.

Mods/staff ??

Yes, I agree. I would like the staff and mods to stop hiding behind the guise of "freedom of opinion" and "tolerance of different views" on the board, and finally face the music on this question.

And like Majic, I am looking for suggestions that might help on this accord to help promote this issue so that it is a welcoming board and a place that truly encourages cultural awareness.

For people who can't make any sense or still are hung up about the purpose of this thread, need not to be here because they are part of the problem.

We need people who are committed to creating understanding and conscience amongst all people. That goes beyond simply "advocating a position".

In fact, I think that the continual repetition of the board "not taking a position" is just another fancy way to deflect the issue being presented here. It's time that the silence is broken and that someone speaks on this accord.

Let's tear down the wall of silence and finally discuss this issue.

[edit on 6-4-2007 by ceci2006]

Originally posted by Spiderj

Having said all that, personally at this point I'm in favor of replacing the social issues forum with a self serve frozen yogurt bar with your choice of toppings and mix ins.
Any takers?

As long as I can get the chocolate/vanilla twist in a big bowl!


I have been watching this whole thing (including all 465,465,121,561 of the race threads) and have to say it has been handled with quite the professionalism by the staff...and it seems that unless things are going a certain way some people will just never be happy.

Anyways....about that yogurt.......

Ceci, did you miss Majic's post on the bottom of page 5?

I believe he answered your questions.

Originally posted by ceci2006
intrepid, I thank you for your participation on my thread. But, if you are going to spend time attacking the messenger, then it is time wasted here.

I would much rather hear from other staff on this aspect who can thoughfully answer on topic without trying to turn it into discord. And those are the staff members I would like to address this question instead of those who want me to "get down off of that cross".

I think that you've said enough here. And, I would appreciate that if you don't have anything else to address on the topic, that you just be a gentleman and leave this thread alone for the sake of others who would like to deal with this on the level.



[edit on 6-4-2007 by ceci2006]

Now you're dictating who can contribute? Remember, it was your question that I was responding to:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Now that you don't like the answer you want to limit the participation? That's not how it works ceci. I would hope that you would be lady enough to be able to discuss this topic AND address the points put to you rather than ignore my points and attack me.

Is it not clear to everyone that if the Administration came out with an Administrative opinion on any subject, not just this one; that it would prejudice the board in that direction?

Heaven knows they get accused of being in the CIA, Aliens and everything else, that action would quite simply be very destructive in regards to the free expression of all opinions here..

Semper

Nothing From Nothing

Originally posted by FlyersFan
What is the purpose of this thread anyways?
Why does anything 'have to take the place of 'cultural awareness' threads'?
Nothing has been removed. Nothing has been banned.
Anyone can post anything that follows the T&C and that stays within the spirit of this site.
Threads that discuss race are welcome.
So what is the point of this thread?
Nothing has been taken away - so nothing has to be replaced.

This particular discussion began when several threads related to the topics of race and racism were closed in the Social Issues forum.

At the time it looked like we were effectively shutting down all discussion of race and racism, and understandably, Ceci was concerned.

In fact, the move was a response to a chronic but growing problem with discussion of these topics, and was taken to give us a little time to step back and discuss ways of solving it.

The closures were not aimed at any particular viewpoint, but at threads that were turning into flame wars.

Over the course of this discussion, I've repeatedly asked for ideas on how to solve the problem.

So far, the best idea I've seen is also the simplest: enforce the T&C.

Not terribly exciting, I know, but the plan going forward is to pull members aside as needed and review the "fine print" rather than allow threads to be shut down.

It's an ongoing process and will no doubt be filled with drama and intrigue, but if it gets us to a point where any member can feel confident about posting an honest opinion about these topics without suffering abuse or retaliation, I'll consider it a success.




P.S. Intrepid. Ceci. Don't make me come over there.

Yes, I agree. I would like the staff and mods to stop hiding behind the guise of "freedom of opinion" and "tolerance of different views" on the board, and finally face the music on this question.

We don't hide behind anything. I'm sorry Ceci but you're a little out of line here.

Let me make things perfectly clear. We will not turn this into an activist site. That was not, is not and will never be the intention of ats.

As you constantly attempt to dictate board conditions may I suggest that you as much as anyone benefit from our open minded and soft handed approach to members.

Telling members and mods who disagree with you to simply go away does not serve your purpose and in fact will invite agression.

Treat members and mods with the same respect you demand to be treated with and you will find that most will indeed be civil towards you.

Accusing people of having a certain agenda when there is none does not help your cause either.

Spiderj

Oh and brandon, dude it wouldn't be much of a self serve yogurt bar without the swirl button. May I suggest the butterfinger mix in's they're exceptionally fresh today sir.

Originally posted by intrepid

Now you're dictating who can contribute? Remember, it was your question that I was responding to:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Now that you don't like the answer you want to limit the participation? That's not how it works ceci. I would hope that you would be lady enough to be able to discuss this topic AND address the points put to you rather than ignore my points and attack me.

You've haven't said anything that is worthy of myself addressing, to tell you the truth. They aren't on topic. And, when I did respond, you've personally attacked me.

So in the future, I will not address your posts anymore. You're free to post here. But I will not take away from the topic by having this start into a fight with you.

I hope you understand that. And, I still have hope that you can be less adversarial towards me in the future and actually address what is being said in this topic.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

And now, I will turn my attention toward hearing what the staff has to say about tolerance and cultural awareness. And I surely hope that people stop beating around the bush and just simply answer the question instead of "not advocating any position". Please. A lot of staff members have posted on race-threads when they had the chance. I don't see what is actually different here--especially when it does serve to clear the air here.

Stop pussyfooting around and let's discuss cultural awareness.



[edit on 6-4-2007 by ceci2006]

spiderj,

I am not out of line here. I would like to know how the staff plans to deal with tolerance and cultural awareness. I am tired of the wall of silence here. I put it out clearly. And I would like an answer. Is it that hard?

As for intrepid, he has made a garden industry out of personally attacking me when he has the chance. So, my comments are not out of line. Instead of trying to deal with him, it is better to ask him to refrain from personally attacking me for the sake of continuity on this thread. And right now, I am tired of people who just don't contribute anything new except to attack the messenger. That is what he was doing. He always does this. And, I just don't feel like engaging in another bickering match with him.

I'm just nipping the conflict in the bud before it happens this time.

You're new as a mod, but I think you can appreciate that not even mods are excused from the derailing the topic or personally taking out their angst against another member.

Stop pussyfooting around and let's discuss cultural awareness.

That does not help your position. Please read majics posts very carefully.

If it isn't clear to you by this point then quite frankly you're not thinking clearly.

This is not a debate forum this is board questions and business. Your questions have been answered thoroughly and fairly.

If you feel that we are not being fair or if you sincerely believe that we have some sort of agenda then may I suggest that, that would have a lot more to do with you than us.

If you go around your whole life looking for enemies that is all you will ever find.

You ask people to have an open mind and be fair and unbiased yet you seem convinced that we are operating under a certain agenda when that is not the case at all.

Physician heal thy self.

SPiderj

What agenda is this? Please outline this nefarious agenda.

I've been accused of this so many times, I've lost count. Find something new.

If not, do the thread a favor and just leave it alone so that others can express their views on this topic.

I hate to get into a fight over this because I am more interested into solutions. And I will not get into conflict.

So, I have to ask you that instead of being glib about this and have to discuss my "agenda", do so on another thread. This is board business.

And, I would like someone from the staff to simply speak on this issue instead of just hiding being board policy. Since "a difference of opinion" is being entertained here on the board then treat your answer like that and stop this pussyfooting. Discuss the issue of cultural awareness and tolerance along these lines.

It you find that you can't discuss cultural awareness and tolerance as simply as anything else, the problem does not lie with me. It lies with you.

[edit on 6-4-2007 by ceci2006]

I am not out of line here. I would like to know how the staff plans to deal with tolerance and cultural awareness. I am tired of the wall of silence here. I put it out clearly. And I would like an answer. Is it that hard?

Yes I am a new mod, thanks for noticing but I have been a member for a very long time and am fully aware of the terms and conditions of the site.

Youre questions have been answered, thoroughly by majic and myself.

It can't be any more clear than we've made it. If it is not a satisfactory answer for you than again I suggest this has more to do with you and your agenda not our nonexistent agenda.

As far as your problems with other members and mods, well perhaps you might want to take some responsiblity for that as well.

And yes when you accuse us of attempting to hide an agenda when there is none and we've explained it carefully and patiently than yes ceci you're crossing the line.

Not crossing T&C of course or we would have dealt with that, but you do come across as acusatory and insulting.

Or is that my problem as well.

Spiderj

Well your agenda seems to be that you would like ats to take an activist approach to racial and cultural issues.

We don't take an activist approach here. We're a meeting place for different points of view, not a rallying point for a specific point of view I.E. agenda.

Telling me not to post in this thread doesn't help your position either.

How do you expect people to take you seriously when your basic response to anyone who disagrees with you is to tell that person to go away.

Spiderj