Sad State of American Education..

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posted on Apr, 7 2007 @ 01:16 PM
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Originally posted by Odium
Logic evades you I see.

If you bothered to read the lists, you'd notice they differ which means they can't decide on who is best. If they can't do that what does it suggest? Furthermore, Cambridge students on average when I was at Uni had lower grades than where I went.


Logic evades you! My God man. Even if the lists differ a bit. The bottom line is we still have the best Universities in the world.


Originally posted by Odium
I skipped through parts of it, the arguement that he suggests doesn't work.


I'm not going to argue with you when you won't even watch the video. You don't have the system that is suggested in the video. It may be similar but it isn't the same.




posted on Apr, 7 2007 @ 02:46 PM
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Pretty much what sailor had to say. The US has a huge knowledge pool to pick out of. The worlds best and brightest come to the US to get their education. Which in part is why we have the best Universitys in the world. The US effectively receives a subsidy of $100 to $200 billion a year, as people educated at the expense of this nation immigrate here and promptly participate in the workforce. Which in part is what makes America so competitive in the world.

The list differ a bit. So what, it still has the US as the MAJORITY.



posted on Apr, 7 2007 @ 06:43 PM
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Watched it.

How would your education system (the one they suggest) ensure equal opportunities for all? How would it improve social mobility? I can't see the answers on the video.

Furthermore, does the U.S.A. education system (especaillly Uni's) not just favour the rich? Take Harvard for example, what are the vast majority of peoples economic and social backgrounds at the Uni?

Furthermore, both lists do not link or explain their methodolgy. If a 14-16 year old submitted something like that (or even sourced in) and it didn't give their methodology or explain any of it they'd fail. This source isn't credible, just because a University has it linked. If someone published a piece of work "claiming something" but they did not explain how they reached this conclussion you'd not accept it.

In fact, that's exactly what happens all over this website.



posted on Apr, 7 2007 @ 07:22 PM
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Originally posted by Odium
How would your education system (the one they suggest) ensure equal opportunities for all? How would it improve social mobility? I can't see the answers on the video.


It wouldn't restrict the residents of one part of town (their zip code) to attend a certain school. Right now, you a required to attend certain schools depending on where you live. If you want to attend a different school, in the rich part of town, for example, you have to move into that district. This is the problem you already mentioned. So there is no social mobility now.

Under the system mentioned in this video, the teachers would HAVE to do a good jobs, or lose them! Right now there is unionized monopoly on our schools system. No competition between schools. It is nearly impossible to fire incompetent teachers due to this Union. Because of this union, there is no choice for parents. Other then sending them to a private school. You sure you watched the video?


Originally posted by Odium
Furthermore, does the U.S.A. education system (especaillly Uni's) not just favour the rich? Take Harvard for example, what are the vast majority of peoples economic and social backgrounds at the Uni?


Harvard is an ivy league school. If you have good enough grades to get in you can via scholarships and grants and loans. However, with enough money and connections you can also get in I am sure. The rest of the Universities are not for the rich. Yes, you have to pay for them. Nothing is free.


Originally posted by Odium
Furthermore, both lists do not link or explain their methodolgy.


Ummm... I found the Methodology on both sites I linked.



posted on Apr, 7 2007 @ 07:29 PM
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Ummm... I found the Methodology on both sites I linked.


Show us then please.



You sure you watched the video?


Yep.

However, you've still yet to explain how it'd be different. So what if they compete? Are you claiming that there are not bad Uni's in the U.S.A?

You can make them compete, so what? IT will not change how things work, the better teachers will always work in schools that can pay them more. The schools that can pay more are private schools and paid/owned by the rich.

We have "league tables" in the U.K. of Schools, naming and shaming who does well and who doesn't - it's not changed anything. Bad teachers get sacked from Colleges, Unis and Schools all the time because they are failing the students it hasn't changed things. The rich still get the best chances.

Have you ever thoughts that this might be the reason?
Does it cross anyones mind that most kids know there life will be pointless? They will work for 50 years, get married and have children if they are lucky. More than likely they'll barely own one home, barely enjoy retirement, live in a society filled with worry and crime (partially due to the media). Do people not think maybe, just maybe that all this talk of terrorism, war, etcetera, also plays a role in this?



posted on Apr, 7 2007 @ 07:51 PM
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Originally posted by Odium
Show us then please.


No... click the links I provided already and then click on the methodology links. They are right there.


Originally posted by Odium
However, you've still yet to explain how it'd be different. So what if they compete? Are you claiming that there are not bad Uni's in the U.S.A?


Dude, the video explains how they would be different. Do you have some kind of agenda against US universities? Of course some Universities are better than others. Some are harder to get into and require a better GPA, extra curricular activities, etc.


Originally posted by Odium
You can make them compete, so what? IT will not change how things work, the better teachers will always work in schools that can pay them more. The schools that can pay more are private schools and paid/owned by the rich.


Private schools have always existed. Of course better teachers will teach at Private ones. Everyone knows this. This about Public Federally funded schools. Also, private schools aren't that damn expensive. You make it sound like only the rich can attend them. That is not true.

As for the rest of your post. It has nothing to do with what I am talking about. I get the feeling you are just arguing for the point of arguing. I'm not going to get into a repeating match or a US vs UK pissing match. I don't understand how you could watch the video and then ask me questions the video has already addressed.



posted on Apr, 8 2007 @ 07:20 AM
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Methodology is flawed.

Two peer review magazines, which don't accept non-english pieces is not a credible source. The noble prize is nothing more than another part of the OBN. It's laughable. It is sad what passes for research and evidence these days.

Furthermore, your video does not provide evidence to back up the claims that it'd work. Saying something works and showing that it works are two different things. Would you risk the education system being worse than it is?

Also, you can ignore it all you like but it is true. The Western media has done enough to scare adults into thinking Iran is going to make Nuclear Weapons and killl us all. It'll work on children too. Why bother with School we'll be dead in 5 years if you believe the hype?

There are also other reasons. Ever thought it is not how it is run but what they are taught? Students are no longer doing research, investigations, creating their own studies instead now it is: Read this, repeat it, well done have an A-Grade.

How do you get into Unis in the U.S.A?

Would you rather students took in example pieces of research than did an SAT test? Oh look multipul choice. :O How difficult.

When I went to School, out of my 13 GCSE's (Ages 14-16) ten of them were based on studies, etcetera, same for my A Levels (16-18) and my degree. Now in the U.K. it is all about what you can "parrot" back. From what I've seen the same is happening in the U.S.A. (aside from at degree level) and I'd place that as the real problem.

Students are only taught they'll do well if they can remember. Where is the innovation going to come from? Creative writing, the arts, athletics, science, maths, etcetera can all be research based or practical and this is what students want. They don't want to sit and read or listen to someone talk down to them which is how they feel more often than not.



posted on Apr, 8 2007 @ 07:36 AM
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Originally posted by Odium
Methodology is flawed.


I am sure it is. But, I am also sure you knew that before looking at them. Hopefully, other people looking at this thread will make up their own minds. Regardless, the US has some of the best Universities in the world.


Originally posted by Odium
Furthermore, your video does not provide evidence to back up the claims that it'd work.


Yes, it does!!! Jesus man, are you just arguing for the sake of arguing? The rest of your post all comes down to good teaching or bad teaching. Even if there is was no evidence that it would work. Which, there is. Anything is better then what we have now. If anything, the more government gets involved and standardizes education, the worse it becomes. Get the government out of education and it will improve.

[edit on 8-4-2007 by LostSailor]



posted on Apr, 8 2007 @ 08:28 AM
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Then who teaches? Who decides what should be taught if the Government doesn't?

Do we go back to what we used to have, where Rich people would own the Schools and would teach what they wanted instead? So we can have "Walmart University"? The plan is flawed on so many levels it isn't even funny.

Fact is, you remove Government from the education system the poor will still suffer.

Their is nothing on that video that speaks of how to improve social mobility and reduce ascribed status eventually replacing it with achieved status. Which is the purpose of education on one level.



posted on Apr, 8 2007 @ 09:02 AM
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Originally posted by Odium
Then who teaches? Who decides what should be taught if the Government doesn't?


Who decides what is taught in private schools?


Originally posted by Odium
Do we go back to what we used to have, where Rich people would own the Schools and would teach what they wanted instead?


Nope, The public schools are still funded Federally. You just get to choose which school you want to go to. you are over complicating this my man. Give parents a choice instead forcing them to attend the school in their neighborhood.


Originally posted by Odium
Fact is, you remove Government from the education system the poor will still suffer.


That's not a fact. But, it does go against everything that Socialism stands for. So I can see why it scares you. You live in the UK right? You still trust your government?


Originally posted by Odium
Their is nothing on that video that speaks of how to improve social mobility and reduce ascribed status eventually replacing it with achieved status. Which is the purpose of education on one level.


It does speak about improved Social mobility. We don't have ANY under our current system... Damn man... I'm just repeating myself. If this is how you want to debate. Just making a person repeat himself over and over again until he gets frustrated, and leaves the thread so you get some high. I'm not going to go there. You win... You feel better now?



posted on Apr, 8 2007 @ 09:09 AM
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What's the problem with education in America? Not the gov't, but the entire system itself. In the American education system we remember only our teachers, and not the techniques in the school. Once we change that we will have a better system, etc.



posted on Apr, 8 2007 @ 12:18 PM
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I'd say the US has much the same problem as we have here in Australia.

Private schools recieve 70% of the funding and have 30% of the students..whoa,uneducated masses,no way



posted on Jun, 3 2007 @ 06:47 PM
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Please correct me if I am wrong. Is Japan the leader in education?



posted on Mar, 11 2013 @ 01:22 AM
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Originally posted by Odium
Watched it.

How would your education system (the one they suggest) ensure equal opportunities for all? How would it improve social mobility? I can't see the answers on the video.

Furthermore, does the U.S.A. education system (especaillly Uni's) not just favour the rich? Take Harvard for example, what are the vast majority of peoples economic and social backgrounds at the Uni?

Furthermore, both lists do not link or explain their methodology. If a 14-16 year old submitted something like that (or even sourced in) and it didn't give their methodology or explain any of it they'd fail. This source isn't credible, just because a University has it linked. If someone published a piece of work "claiming something" but they did not explain how they reached this conclusion you'd not accept it.

In fact, that's exactly what happens all over this website.


Like your words as i thought the same many time when these kind of discussions are started. It is true it is not very easy for a common American to enter in the university like this. But there is another point to be noted that those universities like Harvard or others like that also requires the good points or ranks for admissions too then the financing, but still this is an issue that need to be discussed.

cert iv tae40110
edit on 11-3-2013 by droiddna because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 13 2013 @ 07:59 AM
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Why America supports Central Asia? I don't understand the reasons why America supports dictatorships of Central Asia? Of course they promised to support the war against Al-Qaeda, but in fact they just traded their loyalty in exchange for money and weapons. I hope soon we will leave Afghanistan and what we have to do with tons of weapons we used there? Authorities told us they won't give it all for free, but we know that these weapons could be exchanged for loyalty, especially during the economical crisis when we can hardly find money to stay afloat while authorities waste money to support dictators not only with money but also with some special stuff like UAVs or something else. We saw how Uzbek regime treats its people and what will happen when authorities there will get these deadly weapons and use them against civilians or other innocent people? Honestly speaking, I feel terrible because of the mere thought that America is a part of it...





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