Is CANADA a 2nd rate country?

If there is no conspiracy to be discussed this is going into the Canadian Politics section.

I am an American who has been living in Britain for the past year and a half. I can honestly say much prefer America. I also found that damn near every british person here wants to leave. But why? Its a socialist utopia! It should be heaven! Free everything! No effort required!

Wrong. The measure of a country's greatness is in how happy the people are to live there, how happy they are to be part of it, and how optimistic they are about life and their lot. Thats what makes a country great. The happieness of its people with their lives.

In that case, the socialist nannny-state nightmares ranke near bottom here in greatness. I remember reading a study in a paper once about happiness world wide. Guess what? Third world and developing countries ranked highest, with something like over 75% of people in those places reporting themselves happy with life. I think Peru or Ecuador ranked highest. There were also several African countries ranked highly.

I do know that the vast majority of European countries ranked less than 50% of their people of their people happy with life. And guess what? The US outranked damn near every country in Europe except Norway, Switzerland, and Spain. We also outranked Canada. I'll have to find the study. It was fascinating.

No, my little socialist mommy state lovers, explain that. Third world countries are far happier. How can that be? Not only do they not have universal heathcare, they also lack free education, if any educational opportunities exist at all for most. And alot of them disease is rife. Even basic necessities are olimited, like fresh food, clean water, sanitation.

But by god, the suicide rates there are low! They are generally happy people. Its because their measure of happieness is not wealth, cars, free healthcare, money, ect. Their measure of happieness is the song of birds, the company of close knit family, friends, and community. The things that make their lives worth living are hard work, pride in themselves, their families, their communities, independance and self reliance which bolsters self respect and strong cultural identities. They don't rely on the state to make them happy. Their happieness is in those things which are hard fought and won.

The US, despite being a western country, still ranked rather well, with like 70% of people polled stating they were happy. And it shows. Its something I have noticed a massive difference between Europe and the States. Europe is full of msierable people. I walk down the street and unless someone is drinking alcohol, you don't see people smiling. faces are dour or blank. Go into a restaraunt or store, the service is delivered with as much warmth as a glacier. Speak to people in Europe and be greeted with a torrent of grief, complaints, and extreme pessimism about even the most simple things in life. Maybe thats why the birth rate of Europeans is declining so rapidly. people here are so damn miserable they cant even bear having kids to join in their misery.

Back in the states I have been homeless. I have also been sick without healthcare. I am supposedly one of the downtrodden. When I was employed and had a roof over my head, i was still below the poverty level. Yet never once did I feel "oppressed" or downtrodden, or miserable. I was actually quite happy, even tho day to day existance was a struggle. Never once did I even think that i would want social healthcare or a nannystate to support me. if anything, a socialist system would have killed my spirit, because there would be nothing really to work towards. In a socialist system, the taxes and punishment by the state for achieving more and bettering your lot in life to "spread the wealth" would make me say, why bother? Why work hard to build a life for myself when i can get the same benefits for doing little to nothing?

No, in America we do not call people who are poor "bums". We call lazy people who want to do little yet take alot from others lazy bums. People who are poor, but work or try very hard to work, are not called bums. In America we don't give responsibility for our lives, fortunes, and opportunity in the hands of the government. In America, everyone is expected to make or pursue their own fortune and fate if the chose so. If they wish to pursue nothing, that is certainly their right as well. Just don't expect everyone else to support you.

No thanks. Keep your socialist nanny state nightmares if thats what you believe makes a great nation. Id much rather live someplace where there is hope, optimism, and joy in life, even if it means one or two years shaved off my life because a tax happy Big brother wants to suck my income for the benefit of others.

The measure of a great nation is how happy people are to be alive. Europe and Canada both lose bigtime in that respect.

Well I am American, and I've lived near the American-Canadian border,
and I have to say, by far Canada is by far the better country.

Apart from that Canada is generall in the top tiers of free countries an
most uncorrupt countries, in fact I think that Canada is either the 2nd
least or the least corrupt country in the world, not sure which, I'll have
to go reread the article about it.

Canada is on my list of countries to move to, and for many reasons is
in the top two of that list.

The US gives more money in foreign aid then the rest of the world combined. US aid to africa outstrips Europe 15 to 1... I think the US does alot that goes unnoticed because anything that paints the US in a lighter picture is frowned upon by ppl like you.. get a life.

So you must be certified to say which is the better one to live in since you have 'visited' both..

Where was this that you supposedly visited that seemed 3rd world? I ask this because I know your full of #, so Im calling your bluff. Your just a biased prick who is jealous of america..
Just so ppl know what im talking about. this person is extremely bigoted and ill informed in his biased views about america.
www.abovepolitics.com...


Also just to rub your nose in some #. The average american is richer then the average european. Americas per capita GDP is $43,500 compared to the EUs $29,300. And that gap is expected to widen.



$49,500>$29,300



Americas unemployment rate is 4.5%....



Good for you.. Atleast you would be happy with a sub mediocre life filled with laziness... Thats not the way it is in America though.. In order to live the american dream you have to work for it. No free handouts filled with mediocrity.



$49,500 > $29,300.....




[edit on 093030p://5404pm by semperfoo]

And more tham 70% of American foreign aid money goes to Israel,
so that really does'nt make us out to be some great humanist country.

But this doesnt take into account the american ppls donation to aid which is 20X more then what the government dishes out.

Also the US does more for third world nations then any other nation on the face of the earth. You know all those illegal aliens who come here to work? Well they send money (remittances) back to there familys down in south america. Were talking 10s of billions of dollars every year.. The World Bank officially estimates that illegal aliens from developing countries in developed countries sent home more than $223 billion to their families in developing countries in 2005. It grows more and more every year.

[edit on 103030p://1604pm by semperfoo]

That was a beautiful read. As a merchant mariner I have been all over northern Europe. England was the most memorable. Not because of it's beautiful country side or culture. but, because of the people I met while I was there. As of my views on Canada. No, they are not a 2nd rate country in my opinion. They went down a different path. I love visiting Canada. But, I wouldn't want to call it home.

[edit on 1-4-2007 by LostSailor]

Just a friendly reminder that the subject at hand is how much Canada does or doesn't suck. It doesn't have much to do with the US or Europe at all.

Canada - too American for the Europeans and too European for the Americans.



[edit on 1-4-2007 by Duzey]

Canada has never been and never will be a second rate nation.
Our politics on the world stage our quiet but the effect is long standing.
I always cringe when I hear someone say that we are "peace keeping nation". The people who say we are "peace keeping nation" have never been soldiers. They have absolutely no clue what it takes to get to that level of security with in a troubled nation where "peace keepers" can be sent in to monitor and intervene as far as their rules of engagement allow.
How do you get to the level of stability where “peace keepers” can be sent into a country?
It is a 3 step process from the militaristic perspective.
1. A force either local or foreign must be sent to be a war fighting force
2. That force then turns their responsibilities from war fighting to peace making.
3. After the established forces have created a level of security where there is no longer a sustained threat in the area of operations peace making operations can then turn to peace keeping.
If you were to ask any Canadian peace keeper about their time in areas such as Egypt, Israel, Golan Heights, Cyprus or Bosnia they would state without hesitation that peace keeping is one of the most dangerous levels of soldiering due to the use of land mines, unexploded ordinance, local and cultural differences still present and the perceived lowered threat level with in the area. Bosnia is a perfect example of how world powers intervened due to the ethnic cleansing occurring in that country in the early 1990’s. Today the threat of violence is still present and when the foreign forces leave the area the chances of this occurring again are very high.
I appreciate the sentiment of the original posters submission. Therefore I would kindly ask them to take a step back, remove themselves from the annals of liberal post secondary academia and look at the reality to which as a nation and as a member of the global community which Canada faces today.

Arcticnull

@ skadi_the_evil_elf,

if you don't like this country then leave, simple as that

ive gave my views on the US from what i saw in the 2 months while i was there, i will probably go to visit again, but to live NEVER. do the same if your unhappy and go back home - as for how great england or britain is, where have you seen me post a message about how GREAT we are?

this thread is about how canada is a 2nd rate country by an american, so i just gave my views on how commonwealth countrys and EU have systems in place FAR more advanced than the US for looking after its own people....btw if look polls on the best country to bring a child into the world it isn't britain or america, its australia.

but its a well known fact, the standard of living in america is declining - there is a HUGE divide between the rich and the poor in america and its getting bigger, whereas the gap between the rich and poor in other western countrys is closing.

there’s many statistics now show america is no longer the land of opportunity, you must remember europe was BATTERED 60 years ago from the world wars, the only country who came out of that smelling of roses was america, yet in late 1930's the US was broke and riots were on the streets during the great depression era, world war 2 was the best thing that happened to the United States.

But things are changing, just look at Americas debt clock (tick tock) - not only that the US simply cannot compete with the European Union in all departments, from the $ to the talk of a ‘north american union’ - things are grim.

[edit on 2-4-2007 by Sepiroth]

I think canada is a very freindly place. Ive been there a few times. however I wouldnt want to call it home. Way to cold for my taste.



The EU was founded to be more competitive with the US. Its failing as it does not have the unity that the US has. I think ppl should also know that the current EU welfare state is unsustainable and the lack of any economic revitalisation could lead to the splintering or, at worst, disintegration of the EU. The CIA had a report published on this back in 05-06. (They do give the EU a fighting chance as long as proper reform is followed) The problem with the EU is they cant agree with one another on anything. So proper reform takes a back seat.

And what do you have to say about the European study that has estimated that the EU economy is only as developed as the US economy was 22 years ago? Note that this does not even include the newest, poorer members of the EU like Romania and Bulgaria, which would drag down the EU stats even further. Furthermore, the EU has a growth rate slower than that of the US, guaranteeing that the gap will continue to widen.

Study: EU Economy 22 Years Behind U.S.
www.businessweek.com...

So I would have to say that it is the EU who is currently being outclassed by the States..

And what about our nations deficit?... The budget deficit now stands at about 1.4 percent of the nation's GDP, well below the 2.3 percent that's been the norm since 1970's. And in 2008, the US deficit as percentage of GDP is projected to be at 0.7%.. Safe to say I see a strong rapidly expanding economy... The US economy is growing on average at about 3.5% a clip per year. The EU is lucky to be growing 2% a year (which is considered a "robust year in the EU). If the EU was "outclassing" the US then why the slower growth rate? Explain to me the EUs stagnate economy then? why cant the EU agree on the proper reform to make the EU more competitive. The EU is to comfortable with the status quo its not even funny. I think your just jealous that an entire continent cant keep pace with a single nation(the US). "It is the wage of the superpower to be envied. Others weaker vie for its influence and attention" (the EU)

Yes but your thinking of the European Union as a nation like the United States (which is 50 countrys or states into one), the EU is not a nation, not designed to be and it never will be in our lifetime.

[edit on 2-4-2007 by Sepiroth]

Which is precisely there problem. Unity.. Commonality between all those nations. They wont be able to compete with the US without it. Atleast not for long.
I like how fritz put it in regards to the EU. "We're all fish in a very big pond trying to go our own separate ways."

that is the EUs problem. This is why they can not agree with one another on proper reform which doesnt paint a pretty future for the EU. At worst you are looking at the disintegration of the EU. Which seems to be very likely say in 15 years time.

do you know what the EU is and what it's designed for?, to me it seems you don't

but just for agruments sake, i'll argue against your points,
intresting read:-

en.wikipedia.org...

============
Potential 21st century superpowers

Both popular and academic commentators, historians and economists predict the rise of new superpowers in the 21st century, mentioning in particular three likely superpower candidates. As to whether the European Union, China, and India can or will be future superpowers is a matter of ongoing debate.

Mark Leonard writes in his book, Why Europe Will Run the Twenty-First Century, that the European Union will certainly rival the United States as a Superpower. [25] Leonard cites the following four factors: the EU's large population relative to the U.S., the EU's large economy and market size relative to the US, the unpopularity and perceived failure of U.S. military action and foreign policy in recent years, and finally, the EU's better social organization or quality of life (based on measures such as hours worked per week and income distribution). [26] According to Leonard, the EU's unique structure is actually the genesis of a new paradigm in history, where a multipolar or even nonpolar world power structure develops based on large EU-like country groupings working in cooperation with one another. According to Andrew Reding, senior fellow at the World Policy Institute in New York City, the EU's economic might and prosperity as well as its technologically advanced infrastructure will make the most potent political entity in the relatively near future.[27]

“ Europe is gradually emerging as the world’s new superpower. Within a couple of decades, the European Union will equal—if not surpass—the United States as the dominant economic force on the world stage... It is enormously more prosperous and technologically advanced [than India and China]. It encompasses four of the Big Seven economic powers: Germany, Great Britain, France and Italy. -Andrew Reding, Chicago Tribune[27]

=================

Well you just through up a hail merry for arguments sake. im afraid it holds no water though. I would much rather prefer the EU to be the next "superpower" then say china or india. However it couldnt be further from the truth. The EU is starting to decline. China and India are the ones catching up to it. The gap is getting closer and closer by the day. Also the EU is set for a looming demographic crisis because of a drop in birth rates and increased longevity. In the year 2040-2050 the US is due to have a population over 400 million ppl. The US will surpass the EU population by then.

ALL 10 MILLION EUROPEANS
web.inter.nl.net...

And heres some more insight as to what the CIA has to say about the EUs possible collapse and decline in 15 years time.







also heres a good read by the futurist about the US still remaining the worlds sole superpower in the year 2030.
futurist.typepad.com...





Obviously you dont either, or perhaps you would have explained it?. the EU was designed to be a counter balance to america. Individual european countrys dont have a leg to stand on when it comes to being competitive against the USA. Same is true with china and to a lesser extent, india These nations are due to surpass individual eu countrys in the not so distant future. So the EU was designed to be more competitive with the US and to a lesser extent, china and india, who are emerging powers. The thing the EU lacks is commonality or a more "united europe". This in part is why europe struggles to reform its ailing welfare state which is unsustainable. The EU cannot adapt to the changing world fast enough... Where as the US continues to lead, and adapt, the EU just sticks with the "status qou" hopeing to hold on to past glorys for as long as they can.



[edit on 043030p://3204pm by semperfoo]

blahhh take no notice what the CIA says, i'm sick of americans resulting to bias CIA statistics when resulting to sources

anyway i don't care, if it was left to me id be born in a wachati tribe in the middle of nowhere, now that would be cool

[edit on 2-4-2007 by Sepiroth]

Now wouldnt that be sweet!
HAHA well atleast you have a sense of humor.

I LOVE visiting Canada. Every part that I've been to has been great - except for that one trip into French Canadian territory - but other than that I have enjoyed visiting very, very much. It's expensive up there ... but very beautiful. The people were all wonderful and nice (except in the French Canadian part).

Canada gets - two thumbs up from me -

I don't think Canada is second rate at all. As has been mentioned before, it's a 'quiet' power - it's not like the United States, which seems pretty extrovert in its global position, but nevertheless Canada is undoubtedly a world player (in political, economic and military terms).

In fact, when you think 'first world', you think of nations such as those in Western Europe, North America (excluding Mexico), Australia, New Zealand, Japan and so forth.

Whether non-Canadians (including myself) like the direction Canada is taking is really irrelevant. What matters is that the Canadians themselves are happy, and if the people are happy with a system then it seems relatively sustainable.