Thank you for that Palasheea, my thoughts exactly.... our focus should be on demanding the release of the suppressed technologies to the world, not on battling back and forth on Greer's credibility.....

Kroms

In my last post to you I stated my argument about as clearly and cogently as I possibly could, and listed all the reference material and documentation to back up my argument.

I see little point in engaging in further point-for-point battling with you. It is becoming increasingly clear that you are expending MASSIVE amounts of time and emotional energy in trying to discredit not only Greer and TDP, but people like me, and tock too; and the more you do this, the more it looks like you have some kind of hidden agenda in doing this. (Like being paid.)

As Palasheea rightly pointed out, our time should be spent fighting for DISCLOSURE, not battling back and forth over Greer's credibility, my credibility, your credibility, tock's credibility....

In a nutshell - grow up.

As for me having to respond to your bit about historic data and Carl Marx and Utopian philosophy - why should I? That has absolutely nothing to do with what I was talking about. I am concerned with the technologies being actively suppressed by MIC, not socialist/communist utopian philosophy and whatnot. Where's the relevance to Zero-Point Energy and MIC and TDP?

Look. You're never going to be able to back me into a corner or discredit me. And why bother anyway? I'm nobody important, just another random truth seeker on a web site.

But if you're busy trying to get your UNOAPE thing going and trying to be somebody important, the LAST thing you want to be doing is engaging in these point-for-point battles with me - because all you're doing is making yourself look smug, arrogant and foolish in the process.

Sorry, but.... I am better at this than you are.

Originally posted by millerman
our focus should be on demanding the release of the suppressed technologies to the world, not on battling back and forth on Greer's credibility.....

Hasn't this been discussed on many other threads and hasn't it been shown that it is Greer himself who is holding back the 'evidence' from the public? He claims he knows about beam weapons, he claims to vector in ufos, he's been abducted, he's in communication with I don't recall how many different species of extraterrestrials -but he won't share it with anyone unless you hand over large sums of money!

And if he has been abducted then he has no need for disclosure, nor any back up witnesses - he knows ETs exist as a fact and he alone can prove it to us all by vectoring those suckers right back down here!

You need to set up a Disclose the Disclosure Project Project!

TORSION, your comments are so moronic, anyone can see that you're on some kind of quixotic war path of vengeance against Dr. Steve Greer because you just don't like it that some people have what it takes to round up and organize the most credible UFO witnesses out there, compile a vast archive of those witness accounts and then go up in front of the world at the White House and have a national press conference with world wide coverage on why we need DISCLOSURE NOW!

If you think you can do a better job than what Dr. Greer has accomplished so far, then I invite you to go ahead and initiate YOUR OWN DISCLOSURE PROJECT and we will see just how far you can get with it!



[edit on 1-4-2007 by Palasheea]

torsion

It is the Military-Industrial Complex that is witholding all the best evidence and proof - the "high-tech beam weapons", the suppressed technologies, the ETs both living and dead and their spacecrafts, as well as the spacecrafts produced right here on Earth, the ARVs (Alien Reproduction Vehicles).

Again, this is all established in the NPC Disclosure conference, and in the additional 4 hours of footage of witness testimony that's widely available (some of it is shown in Jose Escamilla's film, "UFO : The Greatest Story Ever Denied"). I believe you can get the DVD for a mere $5 contribution to TDP at disclosureproject.org.

Guys..... the MIC is the enemy, NOT Greer..... Greer's on our side!

Palasheea, why are you supporters of Greer so aggresive, ignorant and rude? Surely such attitudes violate the rules of ATS!

What is 'moronic' about the post I made? Re-read it and reply to the points I make in a polite manner, if you are capable of that...

Great idea Palasheea!

To all the Greer-bashers.... if it is supposed to be SOOO easy to get the evidence broadcast on TV on the major networks - go do it!

Go to bat for Greer and go talk to the TV networks and line it all up for him! (Since he holds all the copyrights.)

And when they give you the inevitable " 'They' won't let me do that!", maybe you'll finally understand what I'm talking about, about the CIA thwarting these kind of attempts......

Originally posted by millerman
if it is supposed to be SOOO easy to get the evidence broadcast on TV on the major networks - go do it!

Why waste time with TV broadcasters?

As I pointed out above - Greer claims he can vector in alien spaceships! You, I take it, believe he is telling the truth when he claims this.

So why waste time with television when he can summon the spaceships down to the ground in an open and very public space!

That's all he needs to do! No need to waste time and money 'flying in witnesses' who will relate an anecdotal story- people won't believe their testimony anyway.

Vector in the spacecraft - the final solution to disclosure!

TORSION, you seemed to have ignored my excellent suggestion for you to start up your own UFO DISCLOSURE PROJECT for us to see if you can at least match up to what Dr.Greer has been able to accomplish so far.

Once again, since you are not impressed with Dr. Greer's efforts to initiate a Disclosure program, then I challenge you to start one up on your own for us to see if you can do a better job at it!

As I pointed out above (another point you conveniently chose to ignore) there is no need for any disclosure because Greer can vector in alien spaceships.

If I could vector in alien spaceships, I'd do it.

You need to get on to Greer and insist that he stops wasting time trying to get old documents from government files released, stops wasting time and money collating witness testimony, and stops any other things he might tell people he is doing - just vector in the spaceships. He says he can do it! Do you belive him?

- the final and definitive undisputable disclosure solution! Surely you must agree, Palasheea?

Originally posted by torsion

Originally posted by millerman
if it is supposed to be SOOO easy to get the evidence broadcast on TV on the major networks - go do it!

Why waste time with TV broadcasters?

As I pointed out above - Greer claims he can vector in alien spaceships! You, I take it, believe he is telling the truth when he claims this.

So why waste time with television when he can summon the spaceships down to the ground in an open and very public space!

That's all he needs to do! No need to waste time and money 'flying in witnesses' who will relate an anecdotal story- people won't believe their testimony anyway.

Vector in the spacecraft - the final solution to disclosure!

torsion

You actually have an excellent point here.

I can't speak for Greer or CSETI here, but my own feeling is that the ETs likely have serious safety and security concerns about doing such a thing - since they have been SHOT AT and downed by elements of our government. If they attempt to set down in "an open and very public space", like say in the middle of the Superbowl, they put themselves at risk of being attacked not only by our government, but possibly by panicked civilians as well.

And as I have said in other threads, there may be other issues with actually touching down and getting out of their crafts. Maybe they can't breathe our atmosphere. Maybe they have no immunity to our bacteria and viruses and diseases (think "War of the Worlds"). Maybe we have too much or too little force of gravity for them to handle.

Or maybe they have something similar to the Prime Directive from Star Trek, and they are forbidden from making such large-scale contact until they deem our civilization is ready to handle it, and not panic en masse. (Especially since some of them look exactly like we do, according to DP witness Clifford Stone.)

I'm sure if the answer to Disclosure were to simply vector in UFOs right in the middle of the Superbowl, Greer would have attempted it already.....

Also don't forget, Greer has announced that such a major contact event IS in the works, and a G8 country is in the midst of planning it with him and his team now.....

Originally posted by millerman
Maybe they can't breathe our atmosphere.

We can't breathe on the moon but it didn't stop us going.

Maybe they have no immunity to our bacteria and viruses and diseases (think "War of the Worlds").

Greer says he has been abducted by them therefore they have had contact with humans. And according to Greer they keep coming back - so clearly no problem with bacteria

Maybe we have too much or too little force of gravity for them to handle.

Again, Greer says they regularly visit us so gravity isn't a problem

I'm sure if the answer to Disclosure were to simply vector in UFOs right in the middle of the Superbowl, Greer would have attempted it already.....

It is the simple answer to disclosure but I feel there are somewhat more prosaic reasons why Greer hasn't done it.

Also don't forget, Greer has announced that such a major contact event IS in the works, and a G8 country is in the midst of planning it with him and his team now.....

If I remember rightly, he said a G7 country... and if we give him the benefit of the doubt and say he meant G8, he could have named the country, and he could have said when it would happen - remember, he is supposed to be Mr Disclosure not Mr Ambiguous!

torsion

You do have a point in that he has been somewhat vague about the actual level of contact that CSETI has achieved.

Like, if the ETs have actually touched down and gotten out of their crafts and sat down for tea and round-table discussions..... or if they simply show up in the sky and signal back and forth for 5 minutes and then leave again.... (I get the impression that it is usually the latter.)

Maybe someone like tock, or "Debbie" from CSETI could speak to that, I don't know....

Again, I can't speak for Greer or CSETI, but I get the overwhelming impression that the ETs have some sort of issue with actually touching down and especially with getting out of their crafts - probably a safety issue.

Because remember, according to DP witnesses, the MIC have their own flying disks and advanced EM weaponry and whatnot, so the ETs are likely afraid that they will be attacked by MIC if they make themselves too vulnerable like that.....

As for Greer not giving out the actual name of the G8 country - he was likely just trying to protect them.

Originally posted by millerman
because all you're doing is making yourself look smug, arrogant and foolish in the process.

Sorry, but.... I am better at this than you are.

Hey, you can try to insult me all you want ... but:

it says it all right there in the last few sentences... now doesn't it. LOL

You SAID IT, I didn't

Under these conditions - I SURRENDER!

ROTFL

Originally posted by kroms33

Originally posted by millerman
because all you're doing is making yourself look smug, arrogant and foolish in the process.

Sorry, but.... I am better at this than you are.

Hey, you can try to insult me all you want ... but:

it says it all right there in the last few sentences... now doesn't it. LOL

You SAID IT, I didn't

Under these conditions - I SURRENDER!

ROTFL

Laugh all you want, but I notice you still haven't come up with anything that comes even remotely close to shooting down my actual argument, you know the one that I backed up with documents and reference material and evidence....... ;-)

I don't know if this has been mentioned yet, but Greer said that he and those who were with him when some of those sightings occur, sometimes experience equipment malfunction at the time of those sightings preventing them from taking photo's and or video's of those lights/crafts.

But at any rate, one obvious reason why he would not be showing any photo's of such sightings anyway would be because those photo's would inevitably be attacked by skeptics as being fake -- not to mention those in the UFO community who would love to diminish him in any way possible because he's too credible and accomplished -- in short, by proving that he's a fraud, that's just one less well-known researcher that they would have to compete with.

Anyone in Greer's position would not want not put himself into such a vulnerable spot like that -- (meaning that he would be put on the defense) especially when there's a very good chance that any photographic evidence of his would be ruled inconclusive by even the best experts out there due to the current state of the art photographic analysis available today. And if they are just lights, then they would be ruled out as balloons or airplanes flying at a distance.... the list goes on and on...

I would think that even having his photo's ruled 'inconclusive' would not be a good thing or good enough -- especially for someone like Greer who's ardently working for full Disclosure.



[edit on 1-4-2007 by Palasheea]

Originally posted by millerman


Laugh all you want, but I notice you still haven't come up with anything that comes even remotely close to shooting down my actual argument, you know the one that I backed up with documents and reference material and evidence....... ;-)

Dude, I think if there was a vote on ATS - I think most of the people would tell you to stop supporting Greer because you are doing more damage then good. As for your suppositions on me not shooting down your actual argument - yeah the one backed with documents - if you could read my posts over again instead of making this topic so circular (you know, it keeps going around in circles, I answer - you insult, you want more answers - you insult more, so I give you some links - you shrug your shoulders and go back to something else we discussed and insult more)... if you stopped this I think you would find my answers.

You seriously take almost every thing you read out of context - and that pretty much hinders your views on things. That CIA document doesn't mention a damn thing about Greer and the Disclosure Project but is MOST likely talking about the WAR in IRAQ... Believe me - if the CIA had an interest in Greer, you would have NEVER known who he EVER was.

This is WHY no one understands the NEED for a PUBLICIST. As Torsion stated : Vector the UFO's in - and stop that BS about 'atmosphere, gravity, and all that other garbage spewed' - Even Greer thinks they can handle everything under the sun and that they are here... don't make excuses.

It's so easy to make excuses and that is ALL I have seen from you. Even most fanatical religions don't follow that blindly.

Originally posted by kroms33

Originally posted by millerman


Laugh all you want, but I notice you still haven't come up with anything that comes even remotely close to shooting down my actual argument, you know the one that I backed up with documents and reference material and evidence....... ;-)

Dude, I think if there was a vote on ATS - I think most of the people would tell you to stop supporting Greer because you are doing more damage then good.

LMAO!

AGAIN claiming to speak for many more people than just yourself!

I told you, I am nobody important, and I never claimed to speak for anyone other than just myself. And you know what, I don't really give a crap what people think of me! You can all call me a smug arrogant fool if you want - makes no difference to me either way!

YOU are the one trying to be someone important with your UNOAPE thing, so it is YOU that needs to be careful in how you present yourself - and you have been presenting yourself, like a smug, arrogant, foolish Greer-debunker, claiming to speak for many people on this site..... spending hours and hours of your time attacking Greer, the one guy who lead the battle for Disclosure and accomplished far more than anyone else ever has....

It's so easy to make excuses and that is ALL I have seen from you. Even most fanatical religions don't follow that blindly.

Sure I make excuses for Greer - because fighting the MIC is HARD! They have a tendency to MURDER people that get in their way!

You think it should be SOOO easy to get the NPC Disclosure conference on TV - then go do it! Go to bat for Greer and get it done! He NEEDS people on his side helping him like that!

But when you hit a complete brick wall and all the TV networks tell you "I can't do that, 'they' won't let me do it....", I'm going to be right here going I TOLD YOU SO!!!!!!!!! ;-)

kroms, you're new here and when you first signed up to the forum a week ago or so, you didn't hesitate to inform everyone here that you used to be 'into' UFO's where you considered yourself a researcher but for what ever reason, you failed to mention why you took time off for a few years from UFO's that is until the O'Hare sighting which brought you back in again. Fine.

I don't know who you are, but as millerman said, you are coming across as extremely arrogant, rude and confrontational. There's no doubt in my mind that the reason why you dropped out of these forums years ago was because you somehow managed to offend everybody who had the misfortune to fall in your path.

For you to have the audacity, as a newcomer to the forum, to speak for everybody else here in regards to what you think others think about Greer, is just too much for my little brain to wrap around. Sir, may I ask? Just who do you think you are??

Your most recent post is a case in point where you are turning the tables around and accusing millerman of doing exactly what you've been doing all along. So all you need to do is look in the mirror to find out who the real person is who has been keeping this conversation going round and round and round like a circus ball -- you won't even need to look very closely to see exactly who that person is -- he's looking right back at you!





[edit on 1-4-2007 by Palasheea]

Originally posted by millerman

I told you, I am nobody important, and I never claimed to speak for anyone other than just myself. And you know what, I don't really give a crap what people think of me! You can all call me a smug arrogant fool if you want - makes no difference to me either way!

In a serious note - back to reality: Wasn't it YOU whom called ME smug arrogant and a bunch of other inconsistent drivel? Arn't you the one who is calling people names - NOT ME? You have even called other users 'Moronic' within this own thread. This supports the fact that you don't care what people think about you - including even what the MODS think of you: noting how low your points are, and have been since I joined.

YOU are the one trying to be someone important with your UNOAPE thing, so it is YOU that needs to be careful in how you present yourself - and you have been presenting yourself, like a smug, arrogant, foolish Greer-debunker, claiming to speak for many people on this site..... spending hours and hours of your time attacking Greer, the one guy who lead the battle for Disclosure and accomplished far more than anyone else ever has....

Your words speak louder then I can about the exact nature of your being.
You are not following the guidelines of Greer's teachings by such a vulgar representation of yourself.
You again ridicule, make rash accusations, and belittle people you debate.
I have never claimed to be someone important - are you jealous or something? Because you keep pointing that I am trying to be someone important - I am not. You keep making these radical claims about me, which only seems to be emotionally driven out of fear of losing an argument. That is your problem, not mine. As for spending hours upon hours battling disclosure - I will have you know, I went to Ikea today and picked up a dresser,and a crib for my baby, went to my parents house and talked with them - when out to eat with them and then came home with my wife. I think you are the one haunting these forums looking for "Greer" topics. I humbly admire your complete dedication to him... but I do find it a bit uncanny.

Seems like if you can't win an argument - you attack the person.

Sure I make excuses for Greer - because fighting the MIC is HARD! They have a tendency to MURDER people that get in their way!

It is so sad that you even had to admit that you have to make excuses for him.
Excuse: to regard or judge with forgiveness or indulgence; pardon or forgive; overlook (a fault, error, etc.)
That about sums up your argumentations and support for Greer... all excuses with no hard facts... even that CIA document doesn't mention a thing about Greer, disclosure, or any UFO related material. It is a generalized document referring to PR exposure and how the world/media portrays the CIA/Government - BUT since Greer states it is against HIM trying to get disclosure through the media - you humbly accept it as fact. That wouldn't cut it in a court of law, nor in any applicable real world scenario. So YEAH, I think (NOTE THINK) that the majority would side with my stance on this.

You think it should be SOOO easy to get the NPC Disclosure conference on TV - then go do it! Go to bat for Greer and get it done! He NEEDS people on his side helping him like that!

Again, back to this. I have seen you argue this with other members on here - and what you are asking is pointless rhetoric. WHY? It is a non-argument, and a conjectured statement based on a particular member of this board actually attempting disclosure. As Torsion stated: Vector them. He says he can do it - so go to a football stadium that is packed with people and DO IT.
Greer is the one CLAIMING that disclosure is around the corner - NOT me, NOT any other member on ATS.. ONLY GREER. This is GREER'S mess, not anyone else's.

But when you hit a complete brick wall and all the TV networks tell you "I can't do that, 'they' won't let me do it....", I'm going to be right here going I TOLD YOU SO!!!!!!!!! ;-)

Who says I would even go though the media if I even wanted to undertake this task? I support disclosure as much as the next person - but for you to actually think that the TV networks are the only forum to exact disclosure you need to rethink your tactics. Seeing is believing. Hold "UFO Vectoring" and stage them around the world - show people that 'they' are here - don't charge them - but ask for donations. If UFOs pop up where ever this is done - then POOF people will SEE this and BELIEVE. Throw all the witnesses to the side, throw all the documents on the floor: Greer can vector in UFOs - HE has the proof... I don't know how to vector UFOs - IF I DID, I would have them landing and zooming all OVER Chicago. Has Greer done this yet? If he was for such disclosure, and had the proof to show people in major cities - what excuse does he have for not doing it? To hell with the media - he doesn't need them. If people look up and see UFOs flying all over their cities - I can tell you that it would cause a lot of attention to be focused on the cause.
He won't do it though.