10-year-olds attack, beat homeless man

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

Originally posted by intrepid
Society and the times are to blame imo.

You think the parent's care? From the original source:

... no parents were in the courtroom during the boys' first appearance before a judge Wednesday.

Sorry BH, reread the source material again and didn't see this. Where did this come from?

why don't we blame the kids?

by age 10 i knew attacking someone was wrong and that it was worse to attack an unarmed person.


we need to hold people accountable for their actions, even if they're just 10 years old.

maybe these kids should have been taught empathy, feeling for others.

Originally posted by andy1033
its just like the fact that loads on this planet now through away religion, and do what ever pleases them, so corporations and mindless loons in hollywood gets loads of cash.

well, i've thrown away religion and accepted secular humanism. since i did that, the worst thing i've done is get into a fight for self defense.

the problem is definitely not the abandonment of religion in society, prison population statistics prove that the majority of offenders are religious. in the USA the percentage of atheists and non-religious people is actually lower than the percentage of atheists in the general population

Sorry, Intrepid! I forgot I'd clicked a link in the original story about the homeless man describing the incident. Here it is...
Source

I'm an idiot.

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
by age 10 i knew attacking someone was wrong and that it was worse to attack an unarmed person.

And who taught you that?

we need to hold people accountable for their actions, even if they're just 10 years old.

I agree. But at 10, if they're acting like this, something is wrong with the parenting.

maybe these kids should have been taught empathy, feeling for others.

Right! Taught by whom???

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
Sorry, Intrepid! I forgot I'd clicked a link in the original story about the homeless man describing the incident. Here it is...
Source

That's screwed up. Parents care that little? Do the planet a favour and sterilize those parents before they can procreate further.

Taught empathy by almost anyone who gives a damn. Yes, the parents were criminally negligent, but teachers, pastors, freinds, you can learn empathy from almost anyone if you care to learn it.

Ten years old is certainly old enough to know good from evil...I did, and I make no claim to being an enlightened child in any shape form or fashion.

I know, seagull. My point is that the parents should have taught them these things but apparently didn't or somehow failed these children miserably. Madness was saying we have to hold the kids responsible, and I'm just not so sure I agree. They're so young! There got to be other factors. And the first thing that comes to mind is the parents. And the fact that they didn't even show up in court... :shk:

I wish I knew more of the story. Poor kids. I'm glad the man lived and is ok... It could have been a lot worse.

BH. While I do advocate holding them responsible for their actions, I certainly don't want them slammed into prison. There is a middle ground here somewhere. I suppose mental health professionals would be involved somewhere. They do need to be held accountable though, after all they did kill someone. The why is important. Insane?

Honestly, after thinking it over, the state of these kids mental health should be the determining factor.

They didn't kill anyone. The guy didn't die. They beat him up real bad. They could have killed him.

But I agree, the kids' should be evaluated. And I think they should be punished to learn about consequences (since their parents are obviously lax) but not a normal punishment that an adult would get. And the parents should be evaluated as well. I don't think the kids should go back to them...

Our jails are too full, so we cannot lock them up, some DREAM of going to jail because they think it is cool. So I came up with this when I was in highschool and I can still recall the looks on peoples faces when I said it, I PURPOSEFULLY told this to some delinquents:
#1: Anti-Gang law: military forces are to be employed in cleansing gangs from society, the rule is as follows: confirmed gang sighted, shoot without mercy, take no prisoners. Your judge and jurry is the bullet that lodges itself in your skull.
#2: For those captured before #1 and are young (12 or younger): a specialized military school awaits you where you will be drilled every single day in military surroundings and then be realesed back to society after 10 years. You will not learn anything military, this is a school that would teach what a public school should. Food is MRE's and SOS (slop on a shingle) only, never anything above the rank of dogfood.
#3: Those in jail are kept in isolation blocks, never permitted to see others, see TV, magazines or any reading material AT ALL for the duration of their stay. They do hard labor. In short: turn this 3 story high boulder to sand by 7PM or you do not eat.
#4: Provide adequate schooling, teach ethics and morality, unity, in short teach them the "glue" that holds society together.
#5: Provide options, give them something to do that is meaningfull, give them hope and do not treat them like prisoners untill they have become prisoners. Treat people with respect.

To be short those two kids despite age and the 17 year old should be locked up seperate from each other for a year and do hard labor. Child labor? They are guilty of an adult crime. Yes they could have killed the man, yet shall we wait untill next time?
Society is too, tooooo lack on people, they bust those who have done nothing and when the have to bust the people who have they let them go or slap them on the wrist. Corporate owned prisons and prison labor that benefits CORPORATIONS is the WORST step the USA ever took.
I was talking to a college professor once and we were talking about those who are in for life or near life. We both agreed they should all be shipped to some island the US military bombed flatter than a pancake and just dump them there and basically create a "no go zone" where if you enter without permission you are blown out of the water on the spot. He suggested using the radioactive islands in the south pacific. With all of these though we must first get rid of corruption so we may better deal out justice. Right now taking these measures would backfire to an extreme degree due to the horrific amount of corruption we see. Many people on death row are people who never did anything, those who have done crimes and should be on death row are released back into society quickly.

Makes you proud no? This is the USA! Land of the free home of the brave, land of the drug cartels, gang warfare to the extreme and child delinquents who attempt to murder the homeless. B-E-A-U-T-F-U-L.
You are free to go vomit now.

Getting mothers out of the house and working sometimes 2 jobs along with dad has created this discipline vacuum and a whole generation of what used to be called latch key kids.
Even when most parents are at home, how much time is actually spent teaching kids lessons in morality? What little time they have is spent cleaning, cooking, shopping, driving the kids to soccer, ballet etc. Life has got way to busy.

It will only get worse as wages drop and parents have to spend more time out of the home to keep a roof over the families head and to keep afloat.
It's all a conspiracy to get the kids out of control so then big brother can get step in and get control of them to do god knows what with them.
That part of the equation hasn't come to light yet.
My guess is to eventually put them in the military and make them cannon fodder for the war machine.
There is way too much going against parents these days. With all the new outside influences that have taken control of our kids, even spanking won't turn the tide.

It used to be only single family, welfare kids who used to run amok and do this kind of thing. I've noticed a lot of juvenile crime is being committed by kids of 2 parent, well off families. So even having a Dad around isn't the guarantee of social cohesion that it used to be.

I also remember seeing this kick flicks of homeless people being taunted.
I think a few turned up on youtube as well a while ago. Which caused a storm. I distinctly remember one incident in Australia of some boys sexaully assaulting an intellectually disabled girl and burning DVDs of it and selling it in the playground. Most thought it was FUNNY. (Can you believe it?) I don't think until part of it was put on youtube that it was found out about. Naturally youtube took it down but not untill a lot of young people had already seen it.

I really don't know what's happening to young people. Are they so bored with the usual things like sport, music etc that used to keep us occupied during our childhoods and out of trouble?
It really seems to have gotten worse with advent of video games 10 years or so ago. I think we are only just now seeing the result of that. TV is one thing but a totally interactive game where you can virtually blow people apart is psychologically dangerous for young minds. That is what I think is what is turning kids minds.

I blame also the 17 year old in this article. This 10 year old didn't do it without the influence of the older kid. I think HE should be made to take responsibility for this.

Sorry for the long rant.

benev, my comments on personal responsibility were a bit of a joke...

i really didn't do a good job with that joke

Prison no longer cuts it as a means to scare people not to do bad things...therefore laws should change.

For example, if you beat a homeless person, you should be forced to live on the street for a couple of months.

If you steal, your goods will be given to the people that you stole from.

If you raped a woman, you will be thrown in a prison cell with 10 thugs who haven't had sex for quite a while just to get a taste of your own medicine.

If you committed a murder using a knife, you will be stabbed (and taken care of) just to taste the experience.

If you dealt drugs, you will forced to get high several times, just to see how it is to be addicted to drugs.

If you committed a racial crime, you will be thrown to live with the family of the people you offended.

All this may sound cruel, but it is the only way people will be forced to realize what they do is bad. Especially young people...

Your right, BH. They didn't kill him. Misspoke, or rather miswrote, myself. Trying to multitask, when I should know better, not one of my talents.

They should never go back to their loving parents? Why when they've obviously done such a "wonderful" job prior to this? On that we are agreed, BH.

MasterP. That sounds remarkably like eye for an eye. Not a new concept, but one that I could get behind in certain cases...

[edit on 31-3-2007 by seagull]

Good post, Flighty. I agree with a lot of what you've said. The absence of parents' attention guidance plus the violence-worshipping culture we live in has much to do with what we're seeing here, I think. And I also tend to agree that this isn't happening by accident. Someone is orchestrating this phenomenon.

I think if these 10-year-olds spent some time in a prison atmosphere (protected, so they didn't get hurt) with a lot of "tough love" and counseling, it might do a lot of good.

I like the way you think masterp!

Does anyone remember back a few years ago, there was a judge that made shoplifters carry signs outside of Wal-Mart? The signs said something to the effect of… "I stole from this Walmart" I guess it was pretty humiliating having to parade back and forth carrying that self-declaration.

A little humility goes a long way

Intrepid said:

It TOO easy to point fingers at the parents.

Huh? Tha is the only thing that generally doesn't get the blame. We blame music. We blame movies. We blame society. What ar ethe parents doing to instill good moral values in children nowadays?Not much. Why? Well, I tend to think that it is due, at least in large part, to parents wanting to have the 250 thousand dollar luxury house and the Mercedes. Both mom and dad are working and no one is around to guide the child.

Like I have said time and time again, parents aren't raising children. children are raising themselves. Intrepid, that might not be so true in
Canada, but here in the United States it is very true.

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul


by age 10 i knew attacking someone was wrong and that it was worse to attack an unarmed person.

You were taught that. You didn't just "know" it. Somewhere down the line, a parent or guardian instilled into you that it was wrong to do that. That is a benefit that many children do not have.

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
Well, I tend to think that it is due, at least in large part, to parents wanting to have the 250 thousand dollar luxury house and the Mercedes. Both mom and dad are working and no one is around to guide the child.

I rather think that with the economy of the new millenium parents HAVE to work to make ends meet. Electricity isn't getting cheaper, neither are groceries. Don't get me started on gas and heating costs. Until recently both the wife and I were working 7 days a week. Our cars 92 Civic and 93 Intrepid. Can you guess which one is mine.

Originally posted by intrepid
That's screwed up. Parents care that little?

Do the planet a favour and sterilize those parents before they can procreate further.

Let me tell you a story I read in the local paper not too long ago. There was a man, his wife and child who went on a "field trip." Guess what it was for. Drugs. Yeah, that's right.

Now mind you, this seven year old child was sitting in the back of the vehicle. They get to the drug dealers house and the drug peddler comes out. The man gives him the money and sits the drus in his son's lap.

Drug Dealer: "What are you doing, man?"

Man: "It'll be okay."

Drug Dealer: "No, man, it's not oay that is a child."

Guess what. The drug dealer wound up calling the police on the parents of that child. That is how little todays' parents care.

[edit on 31-3-2007 by SpeakerofTruth]

Intrepid, the 92 Civic?