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Who are the heroes and zeros of Ufology?

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posted on Mar, 29 2007 @ 01:26 AM
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On the side of the good guys I’d nominate Stanton Friedman (even though I don’t agree with all his ideas) who comes across as a sincere and genuine investigator, and James Moseley who came clean and admitted to some of the hoaxing he’d been involved in with Gray Barker in the early days of the subject. I’d recommend his book Astonishingly Close to the Truth for anyone who wants an insight into the Golden Age of ufology.

The bad boys are, for me, Ray Santilli (although he isn’t really interested in the subject, just an exploiter of it) and Steven Greer who is also exploiting its mysteries and passing off disinformation to his own ends.




posted on Mar, 29 2007 @ 01:52 AM
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Zero = Billy Meier. A faking loooooser.

Hero = Springer. Running this website is tribute enough to the status.

(Damn, I'm just a suck)



posted on Mar, 29 2007 @ 08:45 AM
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Torsion, good post.

For the heroes I'd nominate Timothy Good,Richard Dolan,Jaques Vallee,Dr J Allen Hyneck and Nick Pope.
All are well respected for their objectivel research and have written some excellent books on the subject(also the astronaut Gordon Cooper deserves a mention)

For the zeros I'd say its the lunatic fringe on both sides of the debate.
Folks who are hopelessly bias,lazily prejudiced or hysterically cynical/ naive usualy impede serious research.
The mindset "Dont bother me with the facts,my minds made up' is all to common with UFO cynics and wilfull ignorance makes it difficult for people to arrive at informed opinions.
Cheers Karl




[edit on 01/24/07 by karl 12]



posted on Mar, 29 2007 @ 09:14 AM
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Heroes: Stanton Friedman the "father of Roswell", Dr. Kevin Randle a well respected UFO Investigator who lends credibility and believability to the subject, and Peter Davenport the director of the National UFO Reporting Center

Zeros: Each and every single so-called "abduction" victim; people like Steven Greer and David Sereda who make outrageous and absurd claims that stem from new-age mumbo jumbo with no basis in science or fact and who present their claims with no concrete evidence whatsoever outside of "such and such person said this". They have done nothing but hurt the UFO field and have made a mockery out of all the serious UFO investigators who have spent their whole lives investigating this subject and have tried to bring credibility to it.



posted on Mar, 29 2007 @ 09:23 AM
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As for the heros, I am not sure. There are a few individuals who invvestigate UFO cases with an open and skeptical mind and who do not let themselves get carried away. Anyone in that catagory is a hero.

The zeros...the only one not mentioned so far is Mr. David Icke. But then again I am not sure if you consider him a UFOlogist.



posted on Mar, 29 2007 @ 09:51 AM
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For me...

HEROES

Timothy Good, Stan Friedman, Jaques Vallee, Dr J Allen Hyneck (former debunker, then UFOlogist), Ed Ruppelt (former BlueBook head who came out about agenda), Betty Hill (unreproachable abductee), and Nick Pope (former MoD member), and Kevin Randle (for Roswell work), and David Rudiak (the Ramey Memo). And of course, ATS Admins, who provide a place where we can all talk about this, and interact with many others in the field.

ZEROES

Billy Meier, George Adamski, and just about every other self-professed abductee that tries to start UFO cults, giving the entire field a bad name. The late Peter Jennings is also going to go here, strictly for that last bit of crap "journalism" UFO special he did before passing. The CIA (who stated publicly that UFOs were no longer investigated while continuing to run investigations behind closed doors and ridicule witnesses). Phillip Klass (who despite some good work, goes into each case intent on debunking, and has a habit of simply glossing over good evidence, if it goes against his pre-formed conclusions)....



posted on Mar, 29 2007 @ 09:56 AM
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Highly subjective topic, for sure. One guy's hero is sure to be another's hoaxing chump.

Fo hero, I'll take George Knapp who's willing to put his professional rep on the line by even investigating the topic. Ans as an Edward R. Murrow award winner, he's got the rep.

Anyone who hasn't read the threads with George in the Guest Speaker's Forum needs to do that. And flag 'em. Very good stuff there.



posted on Mar, 29 2007 @ 10:04 AM
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Originally posted by spines
As for the heros, I am not sure. There are a few individuals who invvestigate UFO cases with an open and skeptical mind and who do not let themselves get carried away. Anyone in that catagory is a hero.

The zeros...the only one not mentioned so far is Mr. David Icke. But then again I am not sure if you consider him a UFOlogist.


I don't necessarily agree with his hall of fame list, but IMHO Royce Myers is one of the heroes.

When the noise level is very high, as I see it you have three choices:


  1. Give up
  2. Filter aggressively
  3. Accept a low bandwidth.


I do 2 and 3 as best I can.

[edit on 29-3-2007 by disownedsky]



posted on Mar, 29 2007 @ 10:06 AM
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Originally posted by Gazrok

ZEROES

Billy Meier, George Adamski, and just about every other self-professed abductee that tries to start UFO cults, giving the entire field a bad name. The late Peter Jennings is also going to go here, strictly for that last bit of crap "journalism" UFO special he did before passing. The CIA (who stated publicly that UFOs were no longer investigated while continuing to run investigations behind closed doors and ridicule witnesses). Phillip Klass (who despite some good work, goes into each case intent on debunking, and has a habit of simply glossing over good evidence, if it goes against his pre-formed conclusions)....


You write of P.K. in the present tense. He's been dead for over a year now....



posted on Mar, 29 2007 @ 10:09 AM
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Sorry, wasn't checking for grammar, tense, APA formatting, etc...

I meant to include CSICOP's current cronies as well....(they're kind of heroes and zeroes at the same time)...



posted on Mar, 29 2007 @ 10:16 AM
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Heroes = Stanton F., Nick Pope, George Knapp, Mr. Hynek, kinda like Jim Marrs abit - he can be a bit kooky tho, the pre-spiritual Steven Greer, all of the military personel, commercial airline pilots/employees and Naval personel who have come forward over the years, anybody not out to make a blatant buck off of the phenomena, Budd Hopkins - at least the historical Budd. David Adair just because his story is so cool....

Level headed rational skeptics (not debunkers) and those who "believe" without becoming fanatical or religious about it. I can respect a "believer" but not a zealot.

Oh! and ATS of course for giving us this playground to play in.

Zeroes = Anyone who turns this into entertainment and exploits the people involved in it just for the buck and "fame" that can come with it and liars/hoaxers/fakers etc.

[edit on 29-3-2007 by Lost_Mind]



posted on Mar, 29 2007 @ 10:16 AM
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For Heroes...


Originally posted by yeahright
Fo hero, I'll take George Knapp who's willing to put his professional rep on the line by even investigating the topic.

Yep I agree that George Knapp is one as well as those in Gazrok’s list.

I also like Linda Moulton Howe.

For Zeroes...

I agree with those previously mentioned and to add more...

Dan Burish, Bill Ryan, Victor Martinez.



posted on Mar, 29 2007 @ 10:28 AM
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Heroes:

:George Noory and all the guys at Coast 2 Coast
:James Whale for keeping the UK Ufo scene alive on his radio show.
:Springer and all the guys at ATS for this site.
: Timothy Good, for all the fine books he's written.
: John Lear - Excellent topics, and he always replies to posts.
: YOU! the general Public. Always keep looking to the skies, and post your findings.


Zero's:

:Nick Cook - MOD dissinformation expert in my eyes.
:NASA for the constant debunking despite what i seen live during STS115.
:UG Gov - Area 51, I mean come on , we know its there, we dont need to know whats under the ground but at least give us a look around from topside documentry style.

Still on the fence about Bob Lazar, though he is on the heroes side of the fence until proven otherwise.



posted on Mar, 29 2007 @ 11:05 AM
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Originally posted by zeetroyman


Zero's:

:Nick Cook - MOD dissinformation expert in my eyes.
:NASA for the constant debunking despite what i seen live during STS115.
:UG Gov - Area 51, I mean come on , we know its there, we dont need to know whats under the ground but at least give us a look around from topside documentry style.

Still on the fence about Bob Lazar, though he is on the heroes side of the fence until proven otherwise.


Who is Nick Cook? Do you mean Nick Pope? or maybe Nick Redfern? While I don't think Pope's books are terribly enlightening, I don't have any evidence he's a disinformer. Do you?



posted on Mar, 29 2007 @ 11:08 AM
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Oscar Kilo... a timely and cross-generational query that encompasses qualification and quantification subject to individual perspective. In other words - great fun. Thanx Tor' - well done.

My short-list of personal favs in no particular order and the what/why that choice.

AJ Gaevard for the Colares work and prying open some aspects of the Brazilian X-files.

Barry Chamish for his Kibbutz Hotspur work.

Brian Vike for his contribution to general awareness.

Dr. Bruce Maccabee for many things - mostly great explanations and calling "unknowns" with candor.

Chris Rutkowski for his relentless patience and truly excellent long-term documentation.

Chris Styles and associates for Shag Harbour... especially diggin' thru' RG19, 29 and 77 in the Canadian National Archives.

Doctor Edgar Mitchell for dissociating himself from anything to do with the "Greerians".

Erich Von Daniken for the Chariot of the Gods.

George Knapp for his broadcasting.

The late Graham Birdsall for decades of work.

Jim Marrs for diggin' up the Aurora TX 1897 stuff.

The late Admiral-Lord Hill-Norton for his Rendlesham-Bentwaters work.

The late Martyn Stubbs for his personal work on the NASA transmissions.

Nick Pope for his work in the aerial phenomenon in the UK.

Stanton T. Friedman - 'nuff said.

Dr. Richard F. Haines for all his pilot sighting work.

The late Wilbert Brockhouse Smith for his pioneeering detection work.

The late Gordon Cooper just for being himself and the UN stuff in '78.

A great many more do good work too...

Zeroes? Those who neither contribute or detract? A great many.

Less Than Zeroes? Lots, too many, perhaps most and they're getting more wealthy by the day and they all have lawyers.


niv

posted on Mar, 29 2007 @ 11:15 AM
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I'd like to add one name to the good list that I haven't seen yet: Dr. James McDonald. Dr. James McDonald. He gave credibility to the fight and died too soon.



posted on Mar, 29 2007 @ 11:24 AM
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I don't have any zeroes because everyone is a hero in their own way, like Marshall Applewhite for instance:



He took his own whacko self and a whole bunch of other whackos off this Earth. I never understood those gastly purple shrouds......how tacky!!!


My other heroes:

John Lear - A legend even though I think he still works, at least in some respect, with the CIA, and the only reason I say that is because he's still alive.

Phil Schneider - Died for what he believed, a hero.

Bill Cooper - Died for what he believed, a hero.

Bob Lazar - Because I believe him.

Me - because I'm so damned good looking.


Peace


[edit on 29-3-2007 by Dr Love]



posted on Mar, 29 2007 @ 11:31 AM
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Dr Greer for giving greater worldwide credibility to the study of ufos and for him taking the initiative to get the military and other witnesses together, and of course the witnesses themselves, those who participated in the Disclosure Event and the other 500 who have not yet.



posted on Mar, 29 2007 @ 11:46 AM
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Some interesting names cropping up here. Several I’m unfamiliar with, too, and they look like they may warrant further investigation!

Here are some more I’ve recalled:

Heros-
Ronald D Story for his definitive Encyclopedia of UFOs.
Kenneth Arnold- he must take some credit for starting it all.
John Keel for his insightful and interesting concepts.

Zeros-
Richard C Doty & William Moore for their crippling disinformation campaign against Paul Benewitz



posted on Mar, 29 2007 @ 12:02 PM
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Originally posted by Gazrok

ZEROES

The late Peter Jennings is also going to go here, strictly for that last bit of crap "journalism" UFO special he did before passing.



Hi Gazrok,

My instincts tell me you may have this one backwards. It may not be a coincidence that PJ developed lung cancer and DIED SHORTLY AFTER that bogus ABC special.

Perhaps he actually reviewed Greer's material extensively and fought for it to be aired on ABC, and was punished for it......

So I'm voting for MARTYR status for Jennings.... thoughts anyone?





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