P.H.A vs. P.H.O

reply to post by RedPill


thank you bro for shedding light to this big problom on clandestine masonary? im new into the prince hall family came over as huntington lodge ud and now just went up to suffern and a motion was made to grant us a charter/warrant to practice masonary in the state of ny under the most worshipful bernard l holley grandmaster re-elected prince hall gm all the masonary i knew was bogus and dispelled in darkness these 11 mos have been a experience i will never forget this is true masonary at its best i never look down on a bro but now i know that clandestine lodges hurts all masonary not just prince hall it misleads bro into thinking something thats not is something that is? to god be the glory and bless this most worshipful order to our founding father prince hall all praises do to u? and the prince hall familt soon in a few months we will be huntington lodge#124
4th masonic district most worshipful prince hall state of ny thank you all you know who you are for bringing us from darkness to light? ty grandmaster bernard L HOLLEY FOR YOUR STEADFAST FAITH AND CONFIDENCE in us and r.w conners r.w spearmon #72 r.w carmen#72 and the whole prince hall family.

First International is chartered we were chartered in Ausgust 1950 through the grand lodge of England. study the history of international before you make a false statement.reply to post by PrinceHall06

First International is chartered we were chartered in Ausgust 1950 through the grand lodge of England. study the history of international before you make a false statement.reply to post by PrinceHall06

reply to post by Phattdragon

Originally posted by Fitzgibbon
PrinceHall06,

Thanks for the heads-up about PHO. Having been to a Prince Hall Lodge for the first time only relatively recently, I must give honours where it's due. As a member of the GRC, the behaviour and degree of involvement of the brethren of the Prince Hall Lodge I visited impressed me no end. Were the anti-Masons on ATS to look at the behaviour of PH Masons, I would suggest that they'd scurry for the hole from which they eminated.

Keep up the good work

I have to second this.

We had some brothers from our local Prince Hall lodge come for a visitation and it was impressive! We were all sitting around in our jeans and shorts and these guys showed up in tuxedos, white gloves and some of the most ornate and beautiful aprons I have ever seen.

I don't know if this makes sense to anyone but masons, but in our lodge we are pretty informal and we usually just stand or raise our hand if we want to speak.

When these brothers were asked a question or wished to speak they did so in the very strict and formal traditional way and it was very impressive. I might say that some of our guys were a little embarrassed that we acted so casually.

Prince Hall masonry seems to be much more low-key in the community. They have many wonderful programs and they do a lot of work with their neighbors, particularly helping underprivileged folks in the African-American community.

Edit:
I forgot to mention the point I was trying to make. I wanted to say that our Prince Hall brothers (in my opinion) seem to spend a lot more time doing good than they do talking about doing good. I think this is a lesson that all fraternal groups could learn.

[edit on 7/14/08 by emsed1]

This seems like a good place to bring up a question about something I noticed recently.

I live in Illinois and I believe this state AF&AM and Prince Hall have had full recognition for quite a while.

One of the things that gave me pause when I joined was some of the strange wording in some of the ceremonies. I think the way we word things is the root of most of the misunderstanding of modern masonry. Words that made sense in the Middle Ages make no sense now and sometimes even sound stupid.

In several of the ceremonies, including public ones, there used to be references to 'black' lodges, such as a mason should never participate or help create a black lodge.

The first time I heard this I was shocked and offended, but I noticed in the last couple of years 'black' has been replaced with 'irregular' or 'clandestine'.

I don't know historically if 'black lodge' was a racial term or if it really meant irregular and was just some of the archaic language that shows up now and again. Either way I am glad it's gone because even if it was just an archaic reference it serves no purpose in masonry and only confuses people.

Seeking enlightenment on the difference between Scottish Rites and York, aren;t they both under Prince Hall?

I am a White Woman who is a member of the Order of the Eastern Star, Free & Accepted Ancient York Masons, Prince Hall Origin, National Compact. I am also the Worthy Matron of my Chapter.

Sister Teri Purr
Worthy Matron
Rose of Sharon #8
Columbus, OH

“Go in peace, for we have sworn friendship with each other in the name of the Lord, saying, ‘The Lord is witness between you and me, and between your descendants and my descendants forever’.” 1 Samuel 10:41-42

reply to post by PrinceHall06


I am a recent entered apprentice. What does pha stand for? I was raised to e.a. on 10/25, 5 days ago. I'm anxious to receive information. St. Joseph Lodge 0102

reply to post by CRob318


I have just read your reply it was crazy the only man i wish to follow or be like is Jesus! And dont forget where prince hall got his "OK" from read a little more before you speake. And yes Im PHO! So mo to be

reply to post by Anonymous ATS


Scottish Rite and York Rite are independent bodies that any Master Mason can join.

I am not a member of Scottish Rite, but I am a member of York Rite.

York Rite is made up of Royal Arch Masons, Cryptic Masons and Knights Templar.

Any Master Mason in good standing can join, but I believe to take the Knight Templar orders you must be a Christian or swear to defend the Christian faith.

As far as I know there is no connection between Scottish/York Rite to Prince Hall Freemasonry except that any Master Mason in a PH lodge can join them like any other Master Mason.

I am also a Prince Hall mason on this board. I think there are more here than you realize, but most choose to read instead of comment. I am at school right now so I cant log in. My usual username is On_The_ Leve.

One of the main issues I have with masonry is the ongoing battles over who is legit and who isn't. Which are irregular and which are mainstream? The First thing I have to say about P.H.O. vs P.H.A. is to do a little reading and learn all facts before passing judgement. Prince Hall and his brothers sought and finally obtained charter from England, yes. But what about the lodges he himself chartered? One could say he had no legitimate authority to do so. Does this not make those lodges as irregular as P.H.O. lodges are considered to be? Long have Prince Hall lodges been discounted and regarded as irregular by "Mainstream" lodges and so is the case today in some states. For a fraternity that is based on brotherly love, social equality, etc, why must we always spend so much energy tearing each other's credibility to shreds? We should all come together and put our teachings to practice instead of building walls between us.

this is all kind of funny and senseless seeing that during the Rev War the Lodges uummm lets called them main stream lodges. Were cut off and as soon as they found out about the colored lodge (Prince Hall) the main stream in America cut the off at the head too. Yea England sent Prince Hall a charter but soon dropped them from roll and acted if they rec no dues from them. So if you really geat down to it everyone in the US is a bogus mason. Main streams picked up and governed themselves so did the colored and now we silly negros want to argue over who is legit.. FUNNY VERY FUNNY

As Masons, we often waste too much time and effort on if you are a PHO, PHA, or mainstream mason. We obligated ourselves to go to the length of your CT for a brother.

If a brother is heard to say, OLMGISTNHFTWS do you ask them are you PHO, PHA, or mainstream and wait for their response. If so if you are PHA, will you walk away from this brother? I would ask them same of a PHO mason, do you walk past the brother who is PHA. Now to the mainstream mason does it matter if the brother is PHO or PHA?

To this, I would add that you ask yourself this question, am I using the trowel, as MM should to SBLAM. If you are then PHO, PHA, or mainstream should not pressed Mason.

reply to post by hrdataman


as masons we obligated ourselves to help anyone in need. Not just a mason, and not just a regular mason. So no, I don't think anyone would walk past you or vice versa. But, as a mason in a regular AF&AM lodge, I also obligated myself not to discuss the secrets of masonry with a clandestinely made mason, knowing him to be such. They are the rules, you don't have to like them, but you do have to follow them.

I'm a prince hall mason and I never heard of the P.H.O but they sound like something i wouldnt want anything to do with! I like being a recognized REAL mason, not part of some stupid organization that sells degrees. lol thats rediculous.

Interesting though, I'm gonna look them up on the net and read about 'em.

Its funny how the comments that are so ignorant are the ones that are posted with no name lol. If you was offered an application from a pha brother do you do the research on the history of pha and pho ??? and vice versa if you was offered an application from a pho brother do you try to goggle the does and donts about charters and warrants ???? no you jump to the chance of joining the greatest fraternity in the world. My mind is soaked and saturated with 32 degrees of ancient craft masonary and i thank god for blessing me with the application that was offered to me by a yorkrite (pho) mason. If a prince hall brother would have offered first i will be a prince hall mason !!!!! but rather you think i am bogus or not (try me prove or disaprove if you can) bro avent 32 degree asst wm of lodge taft 282 beech island s.C free and accepted york rite masons. The founder of the razor sharp degree team.

And you would be correct...You DO NOT want anything to do with them.I am a Prince Hall ( PHA ) Mason,but upon seeking to become a Freemason I unknowingly joined a pho lodge..It was a complete joke. There was no teaching,or Masonic education what so ever.No Masonic attire was ever worn at meetings,and I won't even begin to tell you the things that took place within the confines of the lodge hall.I even witnessed a fight between the WM and another member at the lodge.There was no work being done in the community.When I began to inquire if the lodge was "regular" Prince Hall masonry I was told we are the same but they (PHA) don't want to recognize us.No one could tell me anything.So I wrote to the UGLE and got my answer from there.NO pho lodges are recognized anywhere,except in the minds of the individuals who belong to them.I was fortunate enough to seek the knowledge for myself,and came through again in a PHA lodge..(thank the GAOTU for that). Immediately I noticed the difference.It was originally formed illegally,according to Masonic law,by Prince Hall Lodges (but not all of them) in the 1800's and they (pho) actually chartered alot of lodges that are PHA lodges today.The National Compact,as it is referred to was disbanded and those lodges that it chartered had a choice to "Affiliate" themselves with the 'regular" Prince Hall lodges or not. Hence the PHA...What is known as pho today is the illegitimate offspring of an illegitimate National Grand Lodge (which there cannot be..each Grand Lodge is sovereign) that still operates under that name.Trust me these guys are a joke. I now do everything I can to expose them for what they are, as they ruined the beginning of my Masonic travels with their "B.S.".If you care to research them simply google National Compact F & AAYM,pho.You can never understand how many GOOD men they have taken and ruined,and now those individuals who could have made outstanding PHA Bruhs..They now want nothing to do with Masonry because of their experience in The BOGUS pho

PHA Freemasons don't offer applications to Men,nor do we seek them out to.Freemason do not recruit.You must seek admission through a member.Members of PHA. You stated that you were the Asst. WM ...never heard of that position within the lodge.The majority of people are unaware that there are BOGUS organizations claiming to be Freemasons,so why would they think to compare PHA to pho? I was duped into joining a pho lodge myself..Upon seeking to become a Freemason I asked several people about it and the 1 thing they all told me was make sure it is Prince Hall before you join.Looking at the application I received it said Prince Hall,but it was that O for Origin that made the difference.So some people do research it's just in my case once I saw the Prince Hall on the app I thought I was good.But oh how wrong I was....That's all been taken care of now though..no pho here