I couldn't help but notice that this thread has picked up a lot of flags recently. As the recession deepens, crime will rise. It's only a matter of time (as many of you predicted) until Federal authorities call for increased law enforcement to crack down on gun ownership. Their justification will be economic in nature, but we'll still know what the long term agenda really is.

I hear you. Stuff like that is becoming much more common than most of us relize. Ammunition and reloading equipment are not high on many people's list of priorities. It's going to be be much harder to get unregistered brass and untagged propellents in the next decade. that says nothing about the state of firearms registration, which will only get more stringent as time passes.

In a past comment, there was referance to Fully Automatic machineguns as being illegal. This is not true. In some states you cannot own one without a class 3 license. In other states you merely have to register it and pay a 200 dollar federal tax stamp.upon purchase or sale.
I believe that taxing all firearms is the ultimate plan in the long run. They (the evil ATF) will then have the perfect list of where to go and what you have when they really do come to confiscate. And believe me that is the plan. They will have a windfall of tax money to use to further restrict us then confiscate from the legitimate and law abiding gunowners. The sportsmen and women will be the ones paying for it. I have worked for one firearms company and helped start another. This is something that has been in the forefront of the people who build our arms. Its not just a theory.
Zindo

As documented in many other ATS threads, and in this forum, the U.S. firearms industry has been under attack for many years. the plan seems to be rather obvious. Federal officials and special interests plan on chipping away at the Second Ammendment until its just...gone.

What's the current situation with gun dealers in Kansas? I'd be interested to know. What can you tell us?

Justin, I don't know any dealers there. I know some people from there so I"ll check around.

Roper

this has been coming for a long time slowly but surley. And all in the name of safty.

Throughout history, politicians have caused a lot of trouble...in the name of Public Safety. Some are arrogant enough to say that it's for your own good. Others will simply get mad if you question them. That's why we need to have these discussions.

IMHO I believe that American's have the right to bare and own arms. The one thing that these gun control people say is that we will stop criminals from having guns and that will stop them from shooting innocent civilians. This is very wrong because the criminals that have guns do not obtain their firearms legally. They have guns that were given or stolen. So taking away funs means taking the guns away from the people who actually need them and for the people who use them for self-defense.

"Gun's don't kill people, people kill people"

A gun is just a tool. it is a piece of metal. It is the person behind the trigger that is the killer. people will kill people needless of a gun. I believe that everyone who owns or touches a gun should go through a gun safety class and awareness so that they understand what a gun is and how to use it safely and properly.

I agree. It's too bad that more people don't know more about the anti-gun lobby. This is not a civic responsibility that we'll get back, if we lose it. That's why I want to keep this conversations going.

Yes removing guns from citizens would make it easier for criminals to do their bad biddings on us. Also that would make it easier if or when a police state is enabled and the citizens cannot defend themselves. it is the right for the people to protect themselves. I don't think the anti-gun law people see the reality or consequences of what will happen if they prevail.

It's hard for most Americans to consider the possibility that they might one day have to rise up against their own government. The concept of "revolution" has become foriegn to us. We forget that the Constitution as written by people who had just learned that lesson...the hard way.

This portion of the Declaration spells it out in no uncertain terms as to what the framers of the Constitution had in mind should any government including they'res tries to usurp the power of the people!!!

>>> But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such government, and to provide new guards for their future security. --Such has been the patient sufferance of these colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former systems of government. <<<

We migt be a bit removed from the principle by time but not in mind!!

Zindo

For the reasons already given in this thread, things will have to get much worse before the average voter will stand in opposition to what's going on. Consider that things had to get really bad in the colonies before the Founder themselves stepped forward to write that document.

With so much at stake, its important for those of us who can to speak up. Let's take this one thread for example. It's been read by nearly seven thousand people, and it now has 21 flags. That's really not too bad when you stop to consider that fewer than 30 ATS members have contributed their two cents to this conversation.

How much worse do things have to get? THAT is still a matter of some debate. It's very sobering when you stop to realize that today's America might not rebel against the rising tide of government. That's really why I msyelf am here. I want to paint the picture, so to speak. By showing real-world examples of what's in our future, we can give people just enough food for thought to...maybe....change their minds.

It's always been the case that reforms have been started by just a few people. As we discuss our options today, we lay the groundwork for that resistence tomorrow. Remember that revolution doesn't have to be violent. It's possible to change a person's thinking by exposing them to new ideas, while showing them real-world examples of the good and the bad.

The smart arguments we make today might go unheard for decades. Eventually, somebody will look back for inspiration. When they do, its important that they find books, movies, essays, and old internet threads that will give them some food for thought.

In certain respects, you're not talking to the people of today. You're making your case to the people of tomorrow. Think of it as a message in a bottle. THAT is why these discussions matter.

I was in a gun store today, and during my purchase, I was talking to the salesperson who was, of course, very pro second amendment. I'm pro second amendment, too, but I think that we cannot sacrifice any part of the Bill of Rights if we intend to retain or protect the others. I'm working on an article making these connections now, and I'd love to get some feedback from any of you who have any ideas as to how the amendments in the Bill of Rights are dependent upon each other.

Originally posted by scarlett1125
I'm working on an article making these connections now, and I'd love to get some feedback from any of you who have any ideas as to how the amendments in the Bill of Rights are dependent upon each other.

Let me see if I can do this with as few words as possible.

All of your civil rights are tighed to the concept of "dissent." Lose your guns, and you can't physically resist. Lose your voice, and you can't speak out against tyranny. Lose your vote, and you can't slow, stop, protest...or reverse...tyrannical trends in government. Lose the right to hear the charges against you and to know your accuser...and...you lose...your chance to slow, stop, or reform tyranny.

How's that for short?