Brits were in Iranian waters - I have proof

meh, no reason to talk about the training of either British or US forces. Both are extremely well trained. US and UK troops have proved their training is extremely effective over the past decade and a half. Don't listen FOX........I'm a conservative and I still don't like much of their rhetoric....

Now, getting back on topic. Us here in the US of A are as interested in this story as you are so keep us informed of the news coming out of there

You're doing a good job so far.

Who owns the Arvandrud/Shatt al-Arab waterway? The answer is not so simple.

en.wikipedia.org...

It has been contested for hundreds of years and was the main focus of the Iran-Iraq war.

Before you can answer the question of where they were when captured you must first answer where is Iran and where is Iraq.

Originally posted by Reality Hurts

Originally posted by proprog
Brits were in Iranian waters - I HAVE PROOF

Not to be a pain, but you don't have proof.

What you have is a news article. That states other people's opinions.

Proof would be a video, an eyewitness account, something tangible.

Thanks for wasting our time

Actualy with how much ive heard about this ..... the ONLY proof im willing to accept right now is Either Iran Admiting they were wrong... or a LINE IN THE WATER where it is written clearly (might be kinda hard to do on wateR_ IRAN and IRAQ... then they would take a pic w/ the boat past the line.....

thats pretty mucht he only proof ill take... this is NOWHERE near proof... FACT and OPINION are VERY different... thought we learned that in 3rd grade kiddys...


(god i was so immature in this thread.... if a mod sees this please Remove my post )

Latest news from the UK is that those 15 were in IRAQI waters. UK will release any info as required.

Don’t know why info isn't already public - mine is not to reason why.

The boat they were investigating is still anchored IN POSITION within Iraqi waters.

That speaks volumes to me.

There could be buoys in place where the line, separating the Iraqi from Iranian waters supposedly is at.

Originally posted by Sad Lil Alex

Originally posted by Reality Hurts

Originally posted by proprog
Brits were in Iranian waters - I HAVE PROOF

Not to be a pain, but you don't have proof.

What you have is a news article. That states other people's opinions.

Proof would be a video, an eyewitness account, something tangible.

Thanks for wasting our time

Actualy with how much ive heard about this ..... the ONLY proof im willing to accept right now is Either Iran Admiting they were wrong... or a LINE IN THE WATER where it is written clearly (might be kinda hard to do on wateR_ IRAN and IRAQ... then they would take a pic w/ the boat past the line.....

thats pretty mucht he only proof ill take... this is NOWHERE near proof... FACT and OPINION are VERY different... thought we learned that in 3rd grade kiddys...


(god i was so immature in this thread.... if a mod sees this please Remove my post )

Originally posted by stumason
Let them, bah! Honestly, they always think they could do better.

As is the common saying in the UK Forces "All the gear, but no idea". They may have shiny toys, but our guys have better training.

Having said that, if the ROE were different, then this whole story would be different. We may already be at War. Is that really what we want?

We don't have people getting captured by the Iranians which says a lot about your so called superior training. Are you saying their training led them to capture? I really don't want our guys following that manual...

Let us not forget who brought us to the brink of war with Iran here... It was the Brits that got them selves caught here. We may be at war yet and you still want to malign the US for your alleged stupidity? I say alleged because I am willing to wait and see.

Let's hope your guys have the proof that says you were not over the line. If not Blair may have to save "face" we may have to start shooting and it will be the UK we will be looking at as the war monger here. I suppose you will spin it otherwise though. In true British fashion you start the fight and ask us to finish it and we are still a red headed step child... whatever..

Hand in mouth gathers no foot...

Originally posted by Perplexed
We don't have people getting captured by the Iranians which says a lot about your so called superior training. Are you saying their training led them to capture? I really don't want our guys following that manual...

Let us not forget who brought us to the brink of war with Iran here... It was the Brits that got them selves caught here. We may be at war yet and you still want to malign the US for your alleged stupidity? I say alleged because I am willing to wait and see.

Let's hope your guys have the proof that says you were not over the line. If not Blair may have to save "face" we may have to start shooting and it will be the UK we will be looking at as the war monger here. I suppose you will spin it otherwise though. In true British fashion you start the fight and ask us to finish it and we are still a red headed step child... whatever..

Hand in mouth gathers no foot...

Firstly, I qualified my statement with the last paragraph stating about the ROE these guy's where under. No stupidity, in fact it was cool heads that have us following the diplomatic channels as opposed to already being at war.

So how about you actually read up the circumstances surrounding the kidnapping before firing off. That is exactly what i was posting against and you've proven my point, ie; there are those in America who seem to think a cowboy attitude and shooting anything with a turban is the way forward.

uhh.. ya.. what i dont get is... why dont they make ALL WATERS... Nuetral? at least till we can breathe underwater.... it would make things so much easier...

As has been been stated in this thread already, there is no proof here, just opinions, hearsay, and decidedly dodgy reporting. However it appears that there is proof out there of the position these sailors were in when they were snatched:

The government is preparing to release photographic evidence to support its assertion that 15 UK sailors seized by Iran were not in Iranian waters.
The BBC's Nick Robinson says the government is ready to switch from private to public diplomacy with Iran.

Tony Blair has talked of a "different phase" of the dispute and hinted at a more aggressive diplomatic approach.

The sailors and marines from HMS Cornwall were captured on Friday after searching a boat in the northern Gulf.

The BBC's political editor Nick Robinson said preparations are in place for a news conference at the Ministry of Defence where photographs of the moments when the Britons were captured will be revealed.

Source.

Hopefully, this will be strong enough to put the whole tired "were they/weren't they" argument to bed, and we can concentrate on Iranian motives for this kidnapping, and how exactly would be the best way to proceed to get our people back.

People supporting the enemy.... like usual.

Good to see.

People supporting the enemy.... like usual.

Good to see.

And just what makes Iran the enemy?

As far as I am aware the west (other than their sick rhetoric) has not declared war on Iran.

It seems people are all too willing to fall for the spin of were the good guys, they are the evil villains, it just does not add up.

On the topic of this proof, I'd like to know exactly what format it will be in.

Are they going to tell us the GPS coordinates?

Why should we believe they are accurate, by this I mean how do I know they are really the position of the captured crew.

If they show a print out of the position, how do I know it has not been adjusted to show what they want?

The truth is we know for a fact that the US & UK have mounted false flag ops in the past.

We know for a fact that they lie.

We know for a fact that in the lead up to war with Iraq that they released documents/satellite images which they claimed as proof that Saddam was within 45 minutes of destroying large parts of the UK.

Tell me why I should believe them?

As for the photographic evidence, what will this prove?

Are they going to produce a image of the sea with a banner showing the divide?

If Iran comes out & says that they captured the 15 in Iraqi waters then I might just have a little more confidence in convicted liars & thieves that we employ.

Too much of this "story" just does not ring true.

Elohim2007

Iran is currently considered to be the enemy because their forces have detained some of our people who were operating under the mandate of the UN to enforce sanctions. Further, they have refused consular access to our people and have "previous" of mistreatment of our forces and theft of our equipment in the last incident of this type.

If you wait a few hours then like the rest of us you'll find out what form the evidence is in. Like you, I hope it is convincing.

Are we sure that the Iranian's did NOT follow std ROE?
Besides, were those soldiers blue berets and under an operational UN unit?
Or were they British military personnel re-assigned to carry out such checks?

Somehow 'Iraq and UN mandate' in one breath makes me scoff a bit..

Originally posted by elohim2007On the topic of this proof, I'd like to know exactly what format it will be in.

Are they going to tell us the GPS coordinates?

Why should we believe they are accurate, by this I mean how do I know they are really the position of the captured crew.

If they show a print out of the position, how do I know it has not been adjusted to show what they want?

The truth is we know for a fact that the US & UK have mounted false flag ops in the past.

We know for a fact that they lie.

We know for a fact that in the lead up to war with Iraq that they released documents/satellite images which they claimed as proof that Saddam was within 45 minutes of destroying large parts of the UK.

Tell me why I should believe them?

As for the photographic evidence, what will this prove?

Are they going to produce a image of the sea with a banner showing the divide?

If Iran comes out & says that they captured the 15 in Iraqi waters then I might just have a little more confidence in convicted liars & thieves that we employ.

Too much of this "story" just does not ring true.

Elohim2007

If you do not believe the UK then you must believe Iran is telling the truth, right? At least we are going to be producing evidence, which as I just stated in another thread, is not on us to show. The Iranians have burden of proof, not the accused. So why have they not showed us exhibit A?

If you do not believe the UK then you must believe Iran is telling the truth, right?

TBH, I think that both Iran & the UK are equally untrustworthy. In an age of disinformation & media propaganda it is hard for anyone to assemble the truth.

My previous post would equally apply to Iran if they produced so called evidence. It is clear that we, the people, are pawns, being minipulated & led down the garden path in all directions.

I do agree that the burden of proof is always on the accuser. Iran has to yet produce evidence & if it did I would view this with skeptical eyes.

However, I am not going to be led on a merry dance by the UK, whose past honesty to the UK population is less than perfect.

Its all about who or what evidence you choose to believe. In the absence of Iron clad proof I remain undecided.

Elohim 2007

Originally posted by elohim2007
Its all about who or what evidence you choose to believe. In the absence of Iron clad proof I remain undecided.

Elohim 2007

What iron clad proof would you personally like to see in order to decide one way or the other?

What iron clad proof would you personally like to see in order to decide one way or the other?

I really dont know. I would have to assess the info as we got it.

Off the top of my head....

Well, if the Iranians admitted they captured them in Iraqi waters, that would suffice. Equally the UK to admit they strayed into Iranian waters.

Elohim 2007

Just so you all know the British goverment have released pics and infomation to prove that the troops were 2 miles inside Iraqi waters (the co-ordinates given by iran to the UK the first time where in iraqi waters, when this was pointed out the iranians changed the co-ordinates). So please stop accusing the UK as the bad guys, trying to force the iranians into some kind of war. I think the UK goverment held on to this info to give iran time to back down, release the troops and to stop things from esculating. It now looks like things will getting a lot worse before they get better.













[edit on 28-3-2007 by Kurokage]

And here is the story as I read it this morning.

images.ctv.ca...

www.ctv.ca...

Vessels were in Iraqi waters: Britain
Updated Wed. Mar. 28 2007 7:01 AM ET
Associated Press
LONDON --

Britain's military said Wednesday that navy vessels were 1.7 nautical miles inside Iraqi waters when Iran seized 15 British crew members.
Vice Admiral Charles Style told reporters that the Iranians had provided a position on Sunday -- a location that he said was in Iraqi waters.
By Tuesday, Iranian officials had given a revised position 2 miles east, placing the British inside Iranian waters -- a claim he said was not verified by global positioning system coordinates.

thanx all for your replies!

NEWS UPDATE:

the first footage of the captives will be shown on ALALAM arabic TV station in less than 2 hours.

apparently, there is an interview with the only female sailor of the group captured, and a full report on where and how they were arrested. AT LAST, WE WILL SEE SOME CONCRETE PROOF!

IRAN claims brits were captured 0.5 km inside iran.

Keep It Real

[edit on 28-3-2007 by proprog]