There is a lot of talk of the continuing fall in standards of the NHS. From MRSA and other superbugs to the lack of nurses and low pay. The quality of service is attacked often and people expect far more from our health service, especially in the aftercare area.

Well i also think the NHS needs some work but i want to praise it for once. Lets always remember that this is a free service. Yes you pay for it in taxes, but compared to private care it's a very cheap alternative. If you have health insurance for private care it often doesn't cover certain illnesses like cancer.

When looking at health insurance i kept finding interesting conditions in the fine print. For example reading one i noticed that it covered all illnesses, but only covered continuing care for up to 250,000 thousand pounds. Whilst this may seem like a lot there are many ilnesses, especially leukemias that can last 10 years or more. After this money runs out you pay for it.

This is where the NHS stands out as a great healthcare system, free service to anyone for the full duration of your illness. It does mean we sacrifice some things, we don't always get the best medications, or have perfect after care, but it's still a very good system.

At the "sharp end" of the NHS, and by this i mean accident and emergency, it really does seem to do well. Nurses and doctors come from around the world to study in our hospitals due to the range of experience they can aquire. The care at this end couldn't be better in my view, if i have a crash on the motorway then an ambulance comes and gets me, takes me to hospital, treats me immediately (depending on my condition) and all without asking if i have insurance. I get treated regardless of race, religion or financial status.

Yes the NHS has problems, we need to start making it more efficient instead of throwing money into a bottomless pit of manager salaries and unessessary cosmetic changes to services and hospitals.

Other than that i think we should really respect our system for health care which far outstrips the money we pay in. I'll need care at some point in my life, and i reckon i'll have spent less paying in then i get out.

EDIT for a few spelling mistakes.

[edit on 25-3-2007 by ImaginaryReality1984]

One thing about the NHS, it is the most envied National trophy in the UK... From other countrys around the world.

Oks the NHS is going through, bad patch right now, but would rather still be treated in the NHS in this country than having to go abroad and spend thousands of pounds on an operation or treatment.

I do hope that the NHS will remain free for all in the UK, not others from around the world..........

And hats of to those Nurses, Doctors, Surgeons who work alot of hours for the crap wages that they get nowadays, they have always been undervalued in this country.. It is a no wonder alot of Newly Qualified Nurses are leaving to go abroad. More centives are needed to keep those good nurses @ home.....

Totally agree ImaginaryReality1984.

The NHS is a precious national asset we lose at our peril.

......and the private sector in the UK at least is great for those who are fit and well and young.

If you get old, have anything serious happen and get very ill you can expect them to either start charging you huge increases in premiums before they pack you off back to the NHS or to be just sent to the NHS anyways.

Our NHS may not be perfection (and it never will be) but it is, by any fair historic comparison, enormously improved on what has gone before.

Originally posted by spencerjohnstone

And hats of to those Nurses, Doctors, Surgeons who work alot of hours for the crap wages that they get nowadays, they have always been undervalued in this country.. It is a no wonder alot of Newly Qualified Nurses are leaving to go abroad. More centives are needed to keep those good nurses @ home.....

Just pick up a few points here...

Firstly, doctors and nurses do not work excessive hours. Nurses do 37 hours per week and doctors do 10 sessions - which is 40 hours. Traing grade doctors have hours of 48 max, which includes "on call" watching TV or asleep, but sadly in this modern world not down the pub.

Secondly, pay. Well, we all know that GPs earn a shed load - in excess of £100K in many cases for a controlled 40hour week with no out of hours. A hospital consultant will earn upwards of £100K with non of the lucrative "descretionary / excellence awards" of that they award themselves. When I worked in a large acute Trust, the average nurse pay was £28K - four years ago.

Thirdly, nurses have always gone to work abroad, in the same way as foreign nurses come to work in the UK. Research on nurse leavin patterns (and other health professionals) puts pay far below career and professional development. Only the unions (RCN, BMA, RCM etc) focus on pay.

Regards

Yeah, as much as the NHS is knocked by the media, I really do think it's a treasured national institution and - with some better management and a bit of shrewd leadership (especially in the finance department... better deals without cutting corners are needed) - could really become a fully first class healthcare system that's free at the point of use.

Originally posted by Ste2652
and - with some better management and a bit of shrewd leadership (especially in the finance department...

- It's the catch 22 of managing the operation.

On the one hand central Gov has devolved operational decisions to local health trusts (enabling local people to decide local priorities and not be dictated to by a central & authoritarian 'top-down' Gov) and yet on the other the Gov has tried to assert national priorities and maximum waiting times by establishing targets for particular treatment(s).

They are, afterall, only the duly elected Gov implementing the very health program the public has voted for - from the tone of some commentators you'd think they had no right or business being involved at all!

It isn't easy, clearly, but in many respects this is simply a 'damned if you do and damned if you don't' situation.

But I am absolutely certain that anyone who has a fair view of what has gone before cannot fail to recognise the improvements in new build and facilities.

Elective surgery may still have a way to go in terms of waiting times (depending upon what exactly it is) but emergency care in particular is excellent IMO.

[edit on 26-3-2007 by sminkeypinkey]

Firstly, doctors and nurses do not work excessive hours. Nurses do 37 hours per week and doctors do 10 sessions - which is 40 hours. Traing grade doctors have hours of 48 max, which includes "on call" watching TV or asleep, but sadly in this modern world not down the pub.

1st of all Erms what country do you live in? And tell that to the student nurses, doctors etc who slave their guts out for crap pay...

Secondly, pay. Well, we all know that GPs earn a shed load - in excess of £100K in many cases for a controlled 40hour week with no out of hours. A hospital consultant will earn upwards of £100K with non of the lucrative "descretionary / excellence awards" of that they award themselves. When I worked in a large acute Trust, the average nurse pay was £28K - four years ago.

Less and what MP's get who are paid to sit on their backsides everyday and fall asleep, while those on the front line work long hours to take home a measly pay!!!!

Thirdly, nurses have always gone to work abroad, in the same way as foreign nurses come to work in the UK. Research on nurse leavin patterns (and other health professionals) puts pay far below career and professional development. Only the unions (RCN, BMA, RCM etc) focus on pay

Bull, it is well known that because of the low-paid work, plus the poor working conditions within the NHS, is one of the reasons alot of Qualified nurses and doctors left the nhs. Left the NHS for better paid jobs abroad, only reason why the Gov is bring in foreign nurses is they can pay them lowers wages....and make them work in crap work conditions....

Originally posted by spencerjohnstone
1st of all Erms what country do you live in? And tell that to the student nurses, doctors etc who slave their guts out for crap pay...

I live in the UK.

Student nurses are unqualified and are at University, so don't get paid. Go and do research on pay in the NHS. A doc fresh out of medical school will earn £20K up to say £50K after five or six years specialty training without any allowances or the extraodinarily lucrative banding payments. That's good pay for a trainee who could expect to earn £100K basic. A nurse straight from college will earn just over £19K not including allowaces etc... That's good money for a graduate.

I know health professionals slave thir guts out, but who does not? Apart from your observation that MPs sit on their backsides etc... Very astute observation. Now, I know MPs (like doctors and nurses) have all sorts of allowances, but the hospital consultants and general practitioners I work with all get paid more than MPs by a considerable margin. I believe an MP basic pay is around £60K.

NHS working conditions. Be specific, because the conditions of service are actually very good (pensions, hours, allowances, leave etc). Overseas nurses get paid national rates. Please do some research before you come up with blanket statements.

Regards

NHS working conditions. Be specific, because the conditions of service are actually very good (pensions, hours, allowances, leave etc). Overseas nurses get paid national rates. Please do some research before you come up with blanket statements.

Tell that to the Nurse/Doctors, who have left the NHS for better par and work conditons.

The present Gov plus rhe Previous Gov has undervalued the workforce in the NHS for years....... ( and that is a fact).....

Originally posted by spencerjohnstone
The present Gov plus rhe Previous Gov has undervalued the workforce in the NHS for years....... ( and that is a fact).....

- Well it's an easy claim sj but the truth is that this Gov has invested record amounts in the NHS.

Pay too is at record levels across the board.

No-one is claiming it is all perfection but by any reasonable gauge of what had gone before you simply cannot dispute the levels of investment that has gone in.

It's always a juggling act trying to prioritise spending......what would you have cut to spend more on?

SminkeyPinkey

Yes it's true the government has put more money in than ever, i can't believe anyone is arguing they havn't. What is wrong is the way in which it was spent. Headlines that spring to mind are the purchase of large round stone balls to make hospitals look nice outside costing thousands, managment salaries being far to much, to many managers and a few other things.

The point of this thread though was to commend the NHS as a whole, the fact we have a totally free health system, completely based on taxes without any private spending of money for treatment. Yes ok it isn't completely free because our taxes pay for it, but we get more out than we put in. Our NHS is envied throughout the world because it's free.

I think we're in general agreement ImaginaryReality1984.

Of course there are always going to be areas of dispute and where you or I might prefer they did things differently but I don't think them sufficient to bad-mouth or slate the whole, er, 'operation' (boom boom ).

In a 25mile radius from where I live I can name 4 large hospitals each of which has had major brand new units & substantial building and 2 of which are still undergoing a thorough expansion of facilities along with a more general renewal of their existing facilities
(one of them to the point of practically being entirely rebuilt in stages).

I know all about private medicine and how it works for people if or when something very serious happens to them or as they get older.

I also know all about the NHS and how those same vulnerable groups are getting better and better treatment.

Maybe some of this is an age thing, being in my mid 40's I had grandparents and have parents who used to tell me about how life was before the NHS came into being.

But I have no problem with demanding expectations, if anything I think they help drive things to improving standards.
But I do have a problem with those who want to pay little for their NHS but expect a 'Rolls Royce' service in every instance (without any form of rationing, prioritising and with a hugely expanded range of 'services') for buttons.

Sminkeypinkey

As far as i can figure sminkey we are in complete agreement.

I am sick and tired of the media condeming the NHS, lately it seems to be getting worse and worse with the media reporting every small story about someone dying or becoming ill whilst in hospital. Every story about insufficient care is blown out of all proportion.

As you said sminkey, the NHS isn't perfect and it never will be, but it's free and that is a really impressive thing and something we should be proud of.

Pay too is at record levels across the board.

Erms hang on didnt the National union of nurses reject the so call recordlevel wage rise?

Also is not student nurses beng left to fend Wards on their own for hours, without supervison from fully qualified nurses?

Yes it's true the government has put more money in than ever, i can't believe anyone is arguing they havn't. What is wrong is the way in which it was spent. Headlines that spring to mind are the purchase of large round stone balls to make hospitals look nice outside costing thousands, managment salaries being far to much, to many managers and a few other things.

One thing I am not arguing with regards to the amounts of money that has been put into the NHS, but you do have to think where the hell has it all gone?

And so are Consultants salaries, reported in a recent news article on all news channels in the UK, they got better pay but no conditions was attached to it.....