Wrong images of Saturn

Originally posted by Hal9000

I have made a section along red sun line



Do you understand my reasoning now?

That one is not a real photo but a wrong image made by Softimage, Maya or 3ds Max.

Look at this image



What do you notice?
Nasa buffoons have hit a comet with a face of a bad animal and they hit it in the right eye.
Beautiful dramatic event.
In the NASA site before you could see Tempel 1 as a face of a bad animal.
Now they have rotated it to hide this incredible thing.
At NASA there are a lot of incredible buffoons.


[edit on 28-3-2007 by bigbrain]

Originally posted by bigbrain
I have made a section along red sun line



Do you understand my reasoning now?

Can't see it yet, access denied from work. i'll look at it later.

Look at this image



What do you notice?
Nasa buffoons have hit a comet with a face of a bad animal and they hit it in the right eye.

So NASA is wasting all that money to make pictures from space using pictures of animals? I don't see an animal, and I think if they were faking pictures they wouldn't make that kind of mistake.

A potato maybe, but not an animal.

^
^^bigbrain --
But you still don't show Saturn's 26.71 degree axial tilt. Look at my last post...I stated that Saturn's shadow across its rings changes as Saturn orbits the Sun -- due to Saturn's axial tilt. You still haven't accounted for that. To show a true rendering, you would need to know the exact relationship between the 26.71 degree tilt of the rings relative to its location along it's orbit.

For example, look at this photo:



(EDIT:These show a simulation of how Saturn would look from Earth during opposition), but if you were viewing from the Sun, you would have a similar situation...which is this: the angle of the rings relative to the Sun is constantly changing, thus the shadow is changing. Slowly, but changing nevertheless. Sometimes a viewer from the sun can see the tops of the rings, sometimes the rings edge-on (at different apparent tilts of the ring plain), and sometimes the Sun "see" the underside of the rings.

Which brings me to my next question, which you still haven't answered: Why this photo? How can say this one photo is wrong when the shadow is constantly changing, and there are other photos which show the shadow differently -- due to it's location in it's orbit around the sun and it's 26 degree axial tilt.

Here's that photo again, taken 2+ Earth years before the photo you are dissecting (thus the shadow is differnt):




Plus, I'm not sure I understand your "bad animal" metaphor...could you please elaborate?

EDIT: oh...I'm sorry. I see from HAL9000's post that "bad animal" was a literal term, not a metaphor. I think it looks like a comet or asteroid (especially the close up pictures from the "bullet" right before it hit)


[edit on 28-3-2007 by Soylent Green Is People]

[edit on 28-3-2007 by Soylent Green Is People]

Originally posted by Soylent Green Is People
...
1 - To show a true rendering, you would need to know the exact relationship between the 26.71 degree tilt of the rings relative to its location along it's orbit.
...

2 - Plus, I'm not sure I understand your "bad animal" metaphor...could you please elaborate?
...

1 - No, Saturn is a sphere and we can know its shadow and inclination of the sun in that way I said.

2 - Look at this image. Do you see a bad animal?



In the site of NASA Deep Impact there is this image, rotated 90 degrees



Is this a real movie of Spirit on Mars? No, too strange.
marsrovers.nasa.gov...










[edit on 28-3-2007 by bigbrain]

Look at this image



Doesn't it seem a nice ostrich good for kids cartoon?

YES, IT'S A CARTOON CHARACTER

bigbrain--

It's not the 5 degrees I'm concerned with...it's the 26.73 degree tilt of the planet INCLUDING its rings. And as I stated, the orientation of that tilt is in a different relative position to the Sun as Saturn takes its 29 Earth-year orbit around the sun. Thus the shadow will always be different. (look at my pics on my last post.)

If you're confident you can do a 3-D model of the shadow, please show me how the shadow will look in 3 Earth years. How about 7? 10?. Also show me a model of what the shadow looked like 2 years ago. Then do 10 years ago.

I'll say it again, since the shadow is constantly changing, how is it that you know the shadow in that particular picture is wrong, unless you take into account Saturn's 26.73 degree axial tilt and the orientation of that axial tilt relative to the Sun on that particular day that the picture was taken...which you didn't.

This image is a perfect isometric view



Then the rings are perfectly horizontal as regard to the observer.

Then the sun cause this shadow





Because of the longest shadow ellipse, the shadow lines are rectilinear, parallel and perpendicular to the violet diameter of Saturn.

Instead, in this image



the shadow lines are curved and not perpendicular to the violet diameter.
Therefore the shadow is wrong.

But this is nothing as regard to what I want to say: how can NASA buffoons hit a comet with a face of a bad animal that runs at 100.000 km/h?
They have not technology to do it. Do they look at the little screen of a computer where you can't observe the greatest distances among planets?
How can they steer a probe against a comet without seeing anything in the darkness of universe?
RIDICULOUS, SIMPLY RIDICULOUS.

To quote myself...

Originally posted by jra
The Sun almost perpendicular to Saturn's rings? Here's what Saturn looked like from the Sun's point of view on Jan. 19th, 2007 when that image was taken.

Note the angle at which the rings are at from the Sun's point of view. In this image, Saturns rings are being illuminated from below. The reason why the shadow is curved, is because Saturn is a sphere. It won't have straight shadow lines unless the rings are 100% parallel to the Sun, but if you click the link in my quoted post, you will see that they are not close to being parallel. Therefore the shadow is going to be curved due to the angle of the rings on which the shadow falls.

The two brown colour lines that you're using in your diagram don't take into account, the curvature of the spherical shape of Saturn. Here are some renderings quickly whipped up for an example, using lights and shadows. I angled Saturn's rings at 18 degrees relative to the Sun.

View from Sun


Other angles.




The shadows are not wrong.

Is this a real movie of Spirit on Mars? No, too strange.

What's strange about it?

Originally posted by jra
Here are some renderings quickly whipped up for an example, using lights and shadows. I angled Saturn's rings at 18 degrees relative to the Sun.

Nice work jra.

What did you use for that image, Photoshop?

You did a much better job explaining than I could have, but something tells me it won't convince him.

Originally posted by Hal9000
Nice work jra.

What did you use for that image, Photoshop?

Thanks, I used 3d Studio Max for those.

Originally posted by bigbrain
This image is a perfect isometric view



Then the rings are perfectly horizontal as regard to the observer.

Then the sun cause this shadow





Because of the longest shadow ellipse, the shadow lines are rectilinear, parallel and perpendicular to the violet diameter of Saturn.

Instead, in this image



the shadow lines are curved and not perpendicular to the violet diameter.
Therefore the shadow is wrong.

But this is nothing as regard to what I want to say: how can NASA buffoons hit a comet with a face of a bad animal that runs at 100.000 km/h?
They have not technology to do it. Do they look at the little screen of a computer where you can't observe the greatest distances among planets?
How can they steer a probe against a comet without seeing anything in the darkness of universe?
RIDICULOUS, SIMPLY RIDICULOUS.

jra's post is very definitive...but I have one more thing to add regarding bigbrain's Saturn rendereing. You stated the rings are perfectly horizontal with regars to the observer, however the rings are not horizontal with regards to the Sun. The can be tilted as much as 26.73 degrees relative to the Sun -- and that would make a differnce with regards to the shadow.

and bigbrain...maybe much of the universe is dark, but our solar system has a big ol' light bulb in the middle of it.

The correct title of "Wrong images of Saturn" is "Faked images of Saturn".

Could all images be made by Softimage. Maya, 3ds Max and so on?
YES

Dear american friends, talk about Tempel1 and its bad animal face.
Talk about videos of Spirit - nice cartoon character for kids -
and say something intelligent as regard to its use of fisheye lens while it runs on the ground of Mars.

Thank you

[edit on 30-3-2007 by bigbrain]

Originally posted by bigbrain
The correct title of "Wrong images of Saturn" is "Faked images of Saturn".

Could all images be made by Softimage. Maya, 3ds Max and so on?
YES

Not really. How would they do all the false colour images? It's not like you just throw on some random colours here and there, it has to make sense to everyone all over the world who study the images. Plus their is lots of data that the Cassini probe collects, it's not all just images. You're going to have to come up with some evidence to back up your claim of it all being faked.

Have you seen the latest news regarding Saturn and the hexagon shape on its north pole? If they were faking the images, why would they create something on them that they can't explain? That makes no sense.

Dear american friends, talk about Tempel1 and its bad animal face. Talk about videos of Spirit - nice cartoon character for kids -
and say something intelligent as regard to its use of fisheye lens while it runs on the ground of Mars.

I understand that English may not be your first language, but I'm having a difficult time trying to follow what you're saying here.

Why does Spirit use fish-eye lens in its running on the ground of Mars?

Originally posted by bigbrain
Dear american friends...

That's right, bigbrain, you tell 'em.

Originally posted by bigbrain
Could all images be made by Softimage. Maya, 3ds Max and so on? YES

And of course, that proves that all the images are faked. QED. Foolish Americans, can't understand such simple reasoning.

talk about Tempel1 and its bad animal face.

Yes, naughty old Tempel1, you can clearly see its intentions are wicked. Bad Tempel1!

Talk about videos of Spirit -- nice cartoon character for kids.

Yes, I remember that movie. It was about horses. And it was made by Americans too (though the soundtrack was by a Canadian, Brian Adams). And now these same Americans turn round and try to tell us it's all about Mars! Naughty Americans!

and say something intelligent as regard to its use of fisheye lens while it runs on the ground of Mars.

Yes, go on, jra, Hal9000 and the rest of you, hurry up and explain why it's using a fisheye lens when it's running, not swimming. Go on then, let's see you get out of that!

Thank you

Deo gratias. And so, in all humility, I...

have voted bigbrain for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have two more votes this month.

[edit on 30-3-2007 by Astyanax]

Originally posted by bigbrain
Could all images be made by Softimage. Maya, 3ds Max and so on?
YES

Even if it were possible, how does this prove the images are fake?

Dear american friends, talk about Tempel1 and its bad animal face.
Talk about videos of Spirit - nice cartoon character for kids -

How do either of these deflecting questions prove the images of Saturn are fake?

and say something intelligent as regard to its use of fisheye lens while it runs on the ground of Mars.

How does using a fisheye lens prove that the rover footage is fake?

I'm afraid you have this process backward. You are the one making claim, so the burden of proof is on you to show us how you believe these to be fake. Not the other way around.

Originally posted by bigbrain
Why does Spirit use fish-eye lens in its running on the ground of Mars?

Spirit (if you believe it exists) has a Panoramic camera, a Microscopic imager, two navigation cameras and two hazard cameras.

I do not know with what camera was that movie made.


And why do you have a problem with Spirit and not with Opportunity?

Originally posted by bigbrain
Why does Spirit use fish-eye lens in its running on the ground of Mars?

The 'fish-eye' lens is used for the navigation camera. It gives them a wider field of view which helps with navigating the rover. Like ArMaP pointed out. There are a number of different cameras on the Rovers. The high res pics come from the panoramic camera, which is not a 'fish-eye' camera.

The shadow size looks alright to me, Im an artist and have some experience of shadows and proportion. Whats odd though is how black it is on the edges, normally a bit of light should come through and cause the outer parts to be a bit lighter. Like when the moon is half gone, where the shadow ends you can still see a bit further.

Originally posted by jra
...
The 'fish-eye' lens is used for the navigation camera. It gives them a wider field of view which helps with navigating the rover.
...

What a gross mistake.
Fish-eye lens deforms and distorts real environment close to Spirit and therefore can't help to locate possible obstacles.

You see too many cartoons.