Video: American Soldiers Shooting Iraqi Civilians

Originally posted by SteveR
If this is "military combat", it's the most pathetic, spineless, unprofessional military combat I've ever seen. These guys are a joke in uniform.

That comment would be funny if it wasn't so tragically sad, THIS is one of hardest and most difficult forms of military combat there is. Don't let superb training, superior leaderships and weapons along with better technology fool you...

Originally posted by WestPoint23
Did you watch the video at all?

Three times to be exact.

Originally posted by WestPoint23
I must applaud your internet bravado. Bravery indeed.

Indeed as If I am the one calling soldiers fools and cowards from the safety of my room...

I can see that the Iraqis laying in the street are fully enjoying their "Democratic Freedom" that we brought to them. Im sure their families are writing us a thank you note right now.

Originally posted by ThePieMaN
I can see that the Iraqis laying in the street are fully enjoying their "Democratic Freedom" that we brought to them.

Democratic Freedom entitles one to engage in open hostility and conflict against the US? Strange, I never thought of democracy that way...

I can guarantee you one thing....
These soldiers will return and realize the horror they participated in and will suffer the guilt that will result in drug abuse, alcoholism, spousal and child abuse, depression and suicide. It is happening now as we speak and will only get worse the longer the war last. Beside the physically maimed and wounded the mentally wounded will shock this nation for decades.

All this bravado will turn to tears very shortly.

Nam didn't teach us a damn thing.

[edit on 25-3-2007 by whaaa]

I guess because everyone agrees w/me about my opinions and "assumtions" about Iraq that warrents no response?

I thought so.

Guilt is self induced, if one believes in their cause and sees first hand what they are contributing towards there is no reason in the world to feel ashamed. I think Vietnam did teach us that, no matter how many idiots spit at you or call you names while trying to leture you about philosopical BS simply ignore them... Soldiers serving in the conflict are the only ones who should have the right to lecture anyone about it... who has more invested in it?

Originally posted by WestPoint23
Indeed as If I am the one calling soldiers fools and cowards from the safety of my room...

That's some strange logic you have there.

Why should I share your belief that they are superior individuals to be spoken highly of?

And why does it agitate you that I do not?

Originally posted by whaaa
I can guarantee you one thing....
These soldiers will return and realize the horror they participated in and will suffer the guilt

Sobering words.

The only voice of reason yet. I know what they will go through, I feel it every day, and I feel almost as sorry for them as for the families of those they traveled thousands of miles to fight and kill.

So much hate in this thread from both sides, not nearly enough sorrow. Shame on you all.

Way above whaaa, for putting it all back in perspective for me, for making me hit the brakes.

Originally posted by WestPoint23
Soldiers serving in the conflict are the only ones who should have the right to lecture anyone about it... who has more invested in it?

You say that, yet you have no respect for my words...you must have meant the soldiers that agree with you?

Yup.

Somtimes, stating the obvious dosen't warrent the response one expects.

PROPS! To the ATS members that see this war for what it IS.

Why do I get the impression that these are kids playing PS2 video games in there bedroom?
What is the whole story about this video? Are they just shooting people who were shooting at them, then their friends came to help in white cars and the our guys just started shooting them for no reason? Or did the people in the cars shoot at them also.
Whatever it was those guys were sure having a good ole time huh.
The sorry thing about it is when they are home from the war how will they begin to forgive themselves for what they have? If in fact it was some civilian turkey shoot!

My thoughts exactly!

The mentality that the media/culture has driven into the minds of our youth is that of "un-consequential actions"

These kids really "feel" in a way they never have been able to feel before part of the "games" they have played since their early years.

As a Veteran myself the whole tone of this thread makes me sick. The video proves nothing. It starts while already in the middle of a firefight, it doesn't show what happened beforehand. Did anyone else hear AK-47 fire? I sure as hell did. AK's make a very distinct sound when being fired. These are not the innocent unarmed civilians that people are blindly claming. Did anyone hear near the end ov the vid when the marine says "Dude, that sniper round hit right ehrer you are." As for the cars, anyone driving into a firefight is either there to aid the enemy or are just plain stupid. Would YOU drive toward automatic weapons fire? I don't think so. As said before many people celebrate victory in alot of ways. Firefights are very tense situations and the hooting and hollering you hear is little more than a release for these men that just survived that firefight. These were not innocent civilians, insurgents are civilians but hardly innocent. They were shooting at our troops, plain and simple. I can tell you iff some A-hole was shooting at me I'd gladly turn his ass into hamburger, no questions asked. Wake up and smell the coffee people, Urban warfare is a kill or be killed environment. War is not pretty, poetic, or any of that other crap people are used to seeing in movies. War is hell, plain and simple. It's always gonna be gruesome and people are always going to get killed. It's just a fact of life.

Hm...

I TOTALLY respect your knowledge my fellow ATS'er, but at the same time...

Were the people in the car that crashed (due to US fire) promoting an attack? I myself am unsure as to the nature/cut of the video.

Things to chew on...

Well in a firefight type situation anyone entering the area while the firefight is going on is subject to getting shot whether intentionally or not. Like I said before no one in their right mind is going to run headlong into a firefight if they weren't there to support either side. One thing to note is the speed of the car before it was hit. The driver seemed to have a sense of urgency in getting there because he was hauling ass. As to his motives, only God knows. The thing I find odd was the man was intent on getting into the building for some reason when the most tactically sound place to be if you were in that situation would be behind the passenger side of the car with the engine block between you and the incoming fire, not running headlong into a building that was clearly being fired upon.

Originally posted by ShAuNmAn-X
.....the whole tone of this thread makes me sick. The video proves nothing. It starts while already in the middle of a firefight, it doesn't show what happened beforehand. Did anyone else hear AK-47 fire? I sure as hell did. AK's make a very distinct sound when being fired. These are not the innocent unarmed civilians that people are blindly claming. Did anyone hear near the end ov the vid when the marine says "Dude, that sniper round hit right where you are." As for the cars, anyone driving into a firefight is either there to aid the enemy or are just plain stupid. Would YOU drive toward automatic weapons fire? I don't think so. As said before many people celebrate victory in alot of ways. Firefights are very tense situations and the hooting and hollering you hear is little more than a release for these men that just survived that firefight. These were not innocent civilians, insurgents are civilians but hardly innocent. They were shooting at our troops, plain and simple. I can tell you iff some A-hole was shooting at me I'd gladly turn his ass into hamburger, no questions asked. Wake up and smell the coffee people, Urban warfare is a kill or be killed environment. War is not pretty, poetic, or any of that other crap people are used to seeing in movies. War is hell, plain and simple. It's always gonna be gruesome and people are always going to get killed. It's just a fact of life.

I was wondering when somone was gonna like, factor in the video and the audio and the logic and what have you.

Keep up teh good work!

[edit on 3/25/2007 by Brock Landers]

Ok,

Marines engaged in a firefight with AK 47s and Snipers returning fire... 2 cars drive in the middle of it. Where exactly is the murder here? If it's the guys from the cars then, as stated earlier... they shouldn't have driven into the middle of an obvious firefight. the only reason they would is if they were part of the enemies forces.

I see complaints that the marines shouldn't be enjoying killing... But again... as said earlier... It's laugh or cry.

Originally posted by ShAuNmAn-X
Well in a firefight type situation anyone entering the area while the firefight is going on is subject to getting shot whether intentionally or not. Like I said before no one in their right mind is going to run headlong into a firefight if they weren't there to support either side. One thing to note is the speed of the car before it was hit. The driver seemed to have a sense of urgency in getting there because he was hauling ass. As to his motives, only God knows.

I completely agree with you, who knows maybe the driver couldn't hear the fire fight, but no matter. It's a war zone in Iraq, civilians do get killed in cross fire intentionally or not..

Even with MOUNTAINS of evidence pointing towards this being a firefight between 2 armed groups, people still seem hellbent on tearing down and condemming those men who are doing their jobs. From the very begining this thread was full of contempt and hatred, even though there was nothing to prompt it. What exactly do you people think goes on over there? Do you think the soldiers go over there and march in a line towards an opposing force in bright blue uniforms?

There is no shortage of things for you to point to and cry foul. Abu Griab, DU poisoning, or any number of local abuses by LE agencies. If you were REALLY desperate you could reach back to the '60s when the National Guard killed 4 student protesters. Leave these Marines alone, unless you can come up with some PROOF that they were in the wrong.

Originally posted by ShAuNmAn-X
Well in a firefight type situation anyone entering the area while the firefight is going on is subject to getting shot whether intentionally or not. Like I said before no one in their right mind is going to run headlong into a firefight if they weren't there to support either side. One thing to note is the speed of the car before it was hit. The driver seemed to have a sense of urgency in getting there because he was hauling ass. As to his motives, only God knows. The thing I find odd was the man was intent on getting into the building for some reason when the most tactically sound place to be if you were in that situation would be behind the passenger side of the car with the engine block between you and the incoming fire, not running headlong into a building that was clearly being fired upon.

Wheter or not the people in the car were civilian is debatable, however, thats not the real issue here. At least not in my eyes. Its the fact that our soldiers made trophy video glorifying the killings of other human beings. Yeah yeah they were enemy combatants bla bla but guess what. Todays enemy is tomorrows ally and there is nothing glorious nor funny about bragging how you "splattered" another person all over the pavement. That is seriously sick and demented.