The Kalahari UFO Crash

reply to post by Turiddu


Calling something silly is terrible, its just dismissive. I agree Greunen perpetrated a hoax, but i am under the impression that he faked the (i will concur, silly) document because he was not allowed to keep the original.

While i dont wholeheartedly believe that there were aliens in the downed craft, to dismiss the whole incident as if nothing ever happened is to ignore many facts. There is radar evidence for an unknown craft in South African airspace, when the pilot that allegedly fired the maser weapon was asked how many shots he fired, he answered one, which shows that he did infact fire upon something. I dont believe every hoaxer gets tailed, threatened and scared to the extent of having to go into hiding, in the fashion of the original leaker.

It is my opinion that somthing happened, and people calling hoax ( justified in the case of Greunens docs) on the whole case denies the fact that SOMETHING happened. Some people do not need the field muddied by claims of full hoax, or live alien specimens, when there are tangible facts for us to research. Speculation is all well and good, but to dismiss someones work with the claim that someone elses book debunks the theory riles me. I want to know WHAT happened, not to dismiss it because what has been speculated on did not NOT happen.

reply to post by Learningman




In 1989 James Van Greunen was 24 years old had never been in any of the forces indeed

had spent most of the previous five years in the UK producing two children the nearest he

got to being in any of the forces was impersonating a high ranking senior military officer (at

the age of 24yrs?)


I would recommend you read the free e.book on scribed or pirate bay titled The TRUE story

behind "The Hoax Heard Round the World"

See if you are of the same opinion after reading that

I own the full documents released by the New Zealand air force in dec.2010. I'm not so sure why anyone would link the May 7, 1989 South African incident with that awful alien interview. If you actually read the document the alien is illustrated and is described very well, further more it says the alien is a grayish BLUE color and has three fingered claws on each hand and feet, three ridges on its head, and scales on its chest. It sounds nothing like that terrible puppet in the movie. I think some people should look at the documents before screaming hoax. If you've read ANY DECLASSIFIED top secret files, you should know that a spelling error is not grounds for a fake, in fact quite the opposite. You think they hand these things to a secretary and ask," Can you read this and check for errors?" These files are usually never looked at twice.
I'm actually considering dramatizing this incident, and have been trying to find more information or ANY dramatized video. I can't say for sure this IS real, but if it is, it makes Roswell look like a drunkin' rant. I am a little ashamed at my ATS friends for talking about something without getting more info.

I will enclose a link to the documents i found online. It starts on page 135/153 to 151/153. You be the judge
www.noufors.com...

reply to post by morepunkthanu







Sorry mate you've been had !


I think Tony Dodd was playing dumb to get as much mileage out of that as possible!!

Dr Henry Azadehdel has several pseudonyms including Dr. Armen Victorian [now why would

anyone need several identies?? suspicious?? ] and he served time for fraud [illegally importing

rare species of orchids] it's hard to believe so much money can be made from that!

The 'high ranking intelligence officer' from South Africa who stayed with him with the initial 'G'

would that be van GREUNEN?

This perennial hoaxer has been well and truly debunked all over the internet but I'll not take

the pleasure away from you discovering for yourself I'll just point you in the RIGHT DIRECTION

here's a list to google fill your boots

1) The Hoax Heard around the World

2) Dr.Henry Azadehdel / Dr Armen Victorian

3) James Van Greunen

4) Judy Faltskog

5) Cynthia Hind /and the Kahalari /Lesotho Hoax

6) Wayne Herschel

Oh.....and a thread on this site "Alleged NASA Affiliated Astronomer Deciphers Intelligent

signal from nearby stars"

reply to post by eletheia


Let's make this simple for them:
www.abovetopsecret.com...

The thread is well worth reading. It is both informative and entertaining. It should be required reading for every ufologist.

reply to post by DJW001





You've given them a short cut...........I wanted them to have the 'pleasure' of doing their

OWN investigating same as we had to!!

I'd never heard of this alledged UFO crash, so thanks for bringing it to my attention.

Originally posted by morepunkthanu
If you actually read the document the alien is illustrated and is described very well, further more it says the alien is a grayish BLUE color and has three fingered claws on each hand and feet, three ridges on its head, and scales on its chest.

This alien sounds similar to the ones that crashed in Brazil.



In fact this whole Kalahari/Botswana crash has similarities to the Varginha Brazil incident. A doco on it titled "The New Roswell" can be found here clicky click

reply to post by MisterBurns


That link got lost so try these:
www.google.com...

reply to post by csa1234



I note all the youtube video's have been taken down!! I wonder if thats got anything to do

with the fact that the person who pushes and posts all these youtube videos and then removes

them is none other than JamesVan Greunen/Judy Faltskog or which ever pseudonym she is

currently using

Allow me to employ a little marketing trick I learned from Wayne Herschel

Read the book.

Can't beat the price at a free download! Not a lot about this specific hoax, but loads of stuff on the hoaxers, their shady dealings and ever-changing backgrounds, especially "Captain" van Greunen/"Doctor" Faltskog (yup, one and the same).

It's but a small piece of the puzzle, but a more or less crucial one, since van Greunen was the one to "produce" the original "documentation" - for sale, no less!

We found some documents of our own - detailing the hoaxer, rather than the hoax, but it ought to give one some insight into the caliber of these stalwart individuals.

A few words about Tony Dodd, and the simple fact that he became increasingly unreliable as a source of factual material as he grew older. Maybe we shouldn't speak ill of the dead, but I did put my concerns to him and his colleagues while he was alive.

Briefly, he became convinced that he was not just a contactee but a (the?) 'Alien Ambassador'. He was responsible for setting one of the key Indigo Child stories in motion, giving different versions of his facts depending on where he was writing. He repeatedly published photos of UK wild animals that had been humanely destroyed, claiming that they had been mutilated by aliens, never saying where he had taken the photos, and refusing to pass any information about the (many) mutilations he said he was aware of to any animal welfare organisation or to the Police. He believed that he received phone calls at home from warships observing UFOs off Iceland. I think he was repeatedly hoaxed, though by other ufologists, not the government.

He was, indeed, one of the main advocates of the Kalahari case, which started its public life in the UK 'UFO Magazine', for which he researched and wrote. I guess that his involvement fitted with his assessment of himself, and 'UFO Magazine' didn't, I think, accept the hoax readily.

As a former Police Sergeant - apparently an entirely competent one - I understand that Dodd still appears in the UK database of police sightings. Were he still alive, I imagine that the Exo-politics crowd would want him on their platforms. But while I don't believe he should be featured in any UFO Hall of Shame or similar, I would caution against taking any of his material at face value.

reply to post by Snippy23




I agree with your post 100%

He was initially conned by James Van Greunen but then i think he may have been seduced

by the notoriety angle [James/Judy is an inveterate attention seeker]

As the saying goes 'tell yourself something often enough you begin to believe your own 'hype'

I am an Ex Cryptographer of the SADF.During a flight from Port Elizabeth during that period just shortly after the alleged shoot down of the UFO, while inbound for a landing at DF Malan, in Cape Town, I noticed the USA Military Cargo plane on the East side of the Airport. It was being loaded with some Cargo. The fact of the matter is, during that period of time, we had no approval for flights by the USA Air Force to South African soil. This was a confirmation of the events in Botswana.
We should forget about the spelling mistakes of the so called Flight Commander who was Afrikaans speaking.
It is common knowledge that a UFO was shot down, but the weapon used was still highly classified ! The mention of such a weapon is reason to believe that something did take place.
These fast flying craft is not uncommon, and I have personally seen them inbound from the South Western side of Cape Town.
Good work.
Kind Regards
Einfopedia

Hi, my name is Michael B Da Silva and I was in the operations room at air force base Waterkloof on Sunday the 7th of May 1989 and what follows is a cut and paste from my blog THE DA SILVA CODE

[gratuitous links removed]


I wrote of my experience that dreary Sunday which very quickly exploded into chaos. Scroll down till you find
THE GREAT CHASE

CRAZY TALK OF UFO`S AND BOGEYS

SOUTH AFRICA`s ROSWELL?

reply to post by michaelbdasilva

Hi michaelbdasilva,i would be very interested to read of this from a fellow South African,but it appears your link has been removed,so if you could post another one,to your blog,or pm me,please,with the link?

I have,here in Mpumalanga province,seen ufo's,my whole family have,so the subject naturally has some interest for me,at least pertaining to South African sightings.

Hi Guys

Found this post by accident and could not resist, firstly Lesotho and Kalahari are in two places completely opposite each other in South Africa, I was busy with another post so I will just copy and paste here, perhaps too late, but hey, perhaps we can add some value. The dates also don't correlate with me because I remember the incident taking place a lot earlier like in the mid 80's, cause I left school in 82 and seems to be just after, I perhaps somewhere 84 to 87, I'm 50 now so perhaps memory not too good.

Well here is the post on another youtube comments list:

I know a military brigadier who was involved involved the the "shoot-down" of the famous Kalahari UFO in the 80's I believe.
I knew his daughter and I know a guy that works at the traffic control tower who confirmed the incident, he is still working the the South African air-force today.
Basically the South African pilots had no idea what they shot down and were immediately ordered by the US military to give up the "catch" which they did. The Brigadier was still on the same flight to deliver the UFO to area 51 or 54. He had no idea what was happening, he assumed someone was playing a horrible joke on him, because he believed the bodies of the aliens to be that of children. BTW my friend from the traffic control tower confirmed by saying yes to a question that I posed to him but refuses any further discussion on the topic.

Cheers

Zedd

A weird case to be sure,I assume its legit since its not in the hoax bin forum



1.What did the south africans use to shoot down said ufo?

2.what about the claim that a french inteligence officer was murdered while investigating said case?

3.cynthia hind said it was hoaxed and named one Van Greunen,if its indeed hoax why its still here in the ufo forum?

4.Said crash,assuming its true,was taken allegedly from us officials.Under what capacity and for what exchange?Money?how much?


The following are from frank josephs book military encounters with ufos


"At 1:45 p.m., on May 7, 1989, the naval frigate [SA Tafalberg] radioed Cape Town Naval headquarters to report an unidentified flying object that appeared on radar scopes, heading towards the African continent in a northwesterly direction at a calculated speed of 5,746 nautical miles per hour. Naval headquarters acknowledged and confirmed that object was also tracked by airborne radar, military ground radar installations, and D. F. Malan International Airport at Cape Town.

The object entered South African airspace at 13H:52 GMT [1:52 p.m.]. Radio contact was attempted with object, but all communications to object proved futile. Valhalla Air Force Base was notified, and two, armed Mirage fighters were scrambled. The object suddenly changed course at great speed, which would be impossible for military aircraft to duplicate. At 13H:59 [1:59 p.m.], squadron leader [Goosen] reported that they had radar and visual confirmation of the object. The order was given to arm and fire the experimental aircraft-mounted Thor Two laser cannon at object. This was done."


"It was additionally confirmed by Dithoko Seiso, Botswana’s environment minister, in his 1993 report for the Argus, a Cape Town daily newspaper"


tried to track down the news article to no success

originally posted by: IMSAM
A weird case to be sure,I assume its legit since its not in the hoax bin forum

2.what about the claim that a french inteligence officer was murdered while investigating said case?

He died and the hoaxers Van Greunen/Judy Faltskog and Wayne Hershel

maintain for their story he was murdered.

3.cynthia hind said it was hoaxed and named one Van Greunen,if its indeed hoax why its still here in the ufo forum?

The full story is in the hoax bin.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Enjoy ('

4.Said crash,assuming its true,was taken allegedly from us officials.Under what capacity and for what exchange?Money?how much?

Cynthia Hind eventually debunked it!

"It was additionally confirmed by Dithoko Seiso, Botswana’s environment minister, in his 1993 report for the Argus, a Cape Town daily newspaper"
tried to track down the news article to no success

There is a lot of corruption and backhanders around that area and news

articles have a habit of disappearing, It comes up again on the linked

thread.

a reply to: eletheia

The full story is in the hoax bin.

Good times.
Life was so simple then.