Why Time Does NOT Exist!

Originally posted by blue bird

LastOut it was a pleasure exchanging ideas with you!

My only hope is that bowing out is only temporally, because otherwise I stand no chance to get to know - how you come to interesting philosophy of yours. You never explain.

Where it comes from is not important, neither is where it is going, all that matters is what it will do to the human psyche.

It came from questioning and not only following. Much reading and many conversations, every one gave it me, we all gave it to us because we need it to survive, we wanted it all along.

It's not about me, it's about us. Thank you, and thank you dbates!

[edit on 22-3-2007 by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal]

Heres my 2 cents.
Time does exist. It is a permanant feature of the physical universe we live in. If the Universe had a beginning, and the evidence certainly suggests that it did, then all events that have occured, whether observed or not, can be referenced to the beginning.

Time has been defined as the “distance between two events.” Yet, our experience seems to tell us that time is independent of events; it appears to go on whether something happens or not.

Even if the Universe did not have a beginning as soon as one event took place, whether it is the formation of a galaxy or the spin of an electon all other events could be referenced from it.

While it is true that time might be perceived differently by different people, the fact still remains that it moves in one direction only. Like traffic on a one-way street, time moves relentlessly in that one direction—onward, ever onward.

Whatever the speed of its forward movement, time can never be thrown into reverse.

We live in a momentary present. However, this present is in motion, flowing continually into the past. There is no stopping it.

I think time will "exist" until it ceases to be relevant.Right now it's a commodity.When we're essentially immortal it will become a simple yardstick.

After that who knows.If you could manipulate it,like fast forward/rewind ad infinitum,with a thought process unaffected by the movement,then it won't exist.

Ok one big problem with Time that really bugs me is that they say if you travel in a Time machine(let's just pretend Tesla built one and we just discovered it)
and you travel back in the past or the future.You would meet yourself as a younger guy or in the future as an older guy.That would be so so,so impossible ,I'm sorry it's just laughable there is no way you can meet your self because Time does not exist there is only the Now .In 6 hours by the clock mechanism you will be at work,it is not the future but still the Now.Now is infinite.If time were real then there would be billions of our selves for every nano second or whatever cosmic measurement for time.like looking at a film strip with many pictures of the same person.It's just ridiculous if you really think about it.Now is now and will always be now.

amen brother, any enemy of time is a friend of mine.

Originally posted by mistr_b2
Time does not exist there is only the Now .In 6 hours by the clock mechanism you will be at work,it is not the future but still the Now.Now is infinite.If time were real then there would be billions of our selves for every nano second or whatever cosmic measurement for time.like looking at a film strip with many pictures of the same person.It's just ridiculous if you really think about it.Now is now and will always be now.

But what is 'now'?

It has no duration - it is always 'becoming' -so can you possibly exsist in 'now'. You see - therefore time is continuum.

If said Time does NOT exist we have this situation:

Universe - where time is 'finished' ...but even assuming that kind of Universe Time would not exist on the scale of whole Universe - but would still exist LOCALLY for observer because of his movement and duration through space.
- than another question pops right up: if Finite Universe - what is out of that Universe? Space? Space and Time are innseparable.

* ones who are saying that Universe has no beginning and no end hence no Time ( and many spiritual systems of thinking do so if not all of them) are very wrong: if something is infinite- it means that is going and expanding for ever and ever - so now there could not even exist apsence of time on a Universe scale from the example of Finite Universe!

Time is not 'mind constructed', it is not share illusion, it is physical dimension. If so, than we can say Space or Energy is also just 'construction' of mind.

We can also go Solypsistic and state 'what exist is only me- everything else exist only in my head!

We can say whatever we want - paper will handle it, if we do not care for some evidence!

Lets say that one day an astronaut in the year 2000 dropped a small red ball into deep space (interplanetary to avoid all those gravity dilemnas) this ball floats about in spcae for millions of years perhaps hit by the occasional dust particle or small rock but it will survive, now our little astronaut buddy has been in cryo-storage all this time and hasn't aged a tad, imagine his surprise when upon his next venture into space he finds the same ball totally unchanged.

This makes absolutely no sense becuase would you expect the ball to change, no. So why would the astronaut be surprised. But I have thought about there not really being time before. Maybe there is just a three dimensional space and we move around. Light moving away from us isn't moving in time but in space and we just cannot catch up.

Please if your ever going to post something like this back it up with some real proof or at least half decent analogies.

Originally posted by futureh

But I have thought about there not really being time before. Maybe there is just a three dimensional space and we move around. Light moving away from us isn't moving in time but in space and we just cannot catch up.

Nope, can't just be 3D: length, wide, depth -coz than YOU COULD TRAVEL TO PAST AND FUTURE as you wish - which is not the case.

Time is dimension - but IRREVERSIBLE one, as a contrast to space dimensions!

Time is perceived by the mind because of flow of blood ,flow of electricity,regeneration of new cells.Everything in our body is moving so we feel "time" like a Human clock but it is illusion only.The Universe is constantly moving It had no beginning,no end it is currently in the outward vibration.When the fabric of space stops stretching it will start the inward collapse, until the concentration of matter creates another big bang,moving matter outward again.The process of this movement is a huge vibration that has no end.We all vibrate in harmony with the Universe.All our atoms are vibrating,pure movement,Time has nothing to do with it.This is my belief anyway.

I have never in a year in a half and 2000 odd posts called a thread 'stupid' or 'dumb' but that i can no longer claim that as i am calling this thread stupidly dumb. The amount of ignorance , that borders on illiteracy, i have seen displayed by 95% of the posters on this thread makes me wonder how any sane moderation can allow this thread to persist in the 'science &technology forum.I would engage in discussion with the original creator but frankly i would rather discuss liberal vs conservative issues as those guys suddenly seem sane and educated.

I would just like to thank Blue bird for introducing some sanity as the rest of those who tried failed as i did not even notice.

This thread is a embarrassment to ATS and to every 'debunker' that seems to spend all their time here and frankly i am going to take a shower now as i feel contaminated and expect my 'standing' ( if any) will be severely affected by just posting here.

I can't imagine how less can be said in nine ATS pages on a area of ATS that should at least be loosely related to reality.

Stellar

Originally posted by StellarX

...as i am calling this thread stupidly dumb...

I can't imagine how less can be said in nine ATS pages on a area of ATS that should at least be loosely related to reality.

Stellar

Thank you for the analysis, opinions are entitled.

How can any thing not be related to reality when it is all derived from it?

Since you have the audacity to bestow the sword of stupidity amongst us, do you have the shield of bravery to show us why, or have you bowed out before it begins?

Anyone can yell insults and run, but found within detailed conversation is an honesty waiting to be explained and exposed

P.s. I'm not sure what type of literacy or illiteracy system that you are basing your conclusion on, but do "i"'s have to be capitalized, are there spaces before commas, are there no spaces after periods and does the word an come before a word starting with a vowel? Not that it really matters, but if stones can be thrown, be sure they can all so be taken.

Please excuse my semi-harsh diminutive lingo, but I feel attacked and your post in no way added to the discussion.

(was this constructive criticism or destructive criticism? Thanks. Intentions seem vague and condescending to say the least)

Stellar signature quote

*Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.

You spoke of failure, but do you represent your signature or is it simply a show of fancy?

Have a delightfull evening and please do write back

[edit on 29-3-2007 by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal]

Stellar won't be back. There are way too many people who will just sit back and watch what is going on, and then when it's over say "That isn't how it should have been done." If you can't contribute anything to the thread you are responding to don't bother posting. Definately don't attack the people that have valid opinions, theories, etc.

Originally posted by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal
Thank you for the analysis, opinions are entitled.

How can any thing not be related to reality when it is all derived from it?

Because your ideas and 'theories' are not derived from anything real.

Since you have the audacity to bestow the sword of stupidity amongst us, do you have the shield of bravery to show us why, or have you bowed out before it begins?

What is to show? You have done absolutely nothing to invalidate the fundamental nature ( at least with our current understanding) of time and until you begin to do so there is not much for to do here.

Anyone can yell insults and run, but found within detailed conversation is an honesty waiting to be explained and exposed

Anyone can also type lots of pages saying absolutely nothing about reality and that is what you have been doing for many pages now.

P.s. I'm not sure what type of literacy or illiteracy system that you are basing your conclusion on, but do "i"'s have to be capitalized, are there spaces before commas, are there no spaces after periods and does the word an come before a word starting with a vowel?

I am relieved to see that you know something about something.

Not that it really matters, but if stones can be thrown, be sure they can all so be taken.

Feel free to keep throwing stones if their all of similar inconsequential size.

Please excuse my semi-harsh diminutive lingo, but I feel attacked and your post in no way added to the discussion.

Your observational skills are clearly quite astute so as to have 'deduced' that you were ' under attack'.

(was this constructive criticism or destructive criticism? Thanks. Intentions seem vague and condescending to say the least)

I normally criticise in one or both ways but in this instance there is nothing to work with hence the nature of my post.

Stellar signature quote

*Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.

You spoke of failure, but do you represent your signature or is it simply a show of fancy?

You are not even 'failing' in the classical sense as you are not in my opinion attempt to do anything of substance. What use you could possible find in attempting to undermine the fundamental nature of time is quite beyond me and the fact that you are not employing anything of substance to do it is not helping.

Have a delightfull evening and please do write back

How it could possibly be , or become 'delightful' while people attempt to sell such nonsense as truth is quite beyond me.

Stellar

[edit on 1-4-2007 by StellarX]

Originally posted by secret titan
Stellar won't be back. There are way too many people who will just sit back and watch what is going on, and then when it's over say "That isn't how it should have been done."

That's a stupid bet to take.

If you can't contribute anything to the thread you are responding to don't bother posting.

I am not doing anything differently than almost everyone else who responded to this thread. To say that i should 'contribute' assumes that someone else other than blue bird have and last i checked i have already thanked him for his efforts.

Definately don't attack the people that have valid opinions, theories, etc.

You consider what went on this thread 'valid opinions' or 'theories'?
To dispute the fundamental ( and it need not stay that way ) nature of time with the content of this thread is laughable at best.

Stellar

Originally posted by StellarX

Because your ideas and 'theories' are not derived from anything real.

That's because Nothing is and is not real, so I half way agree with you.

What is to show? You have done absolutely nothing to invalidate the fundamental nature ( at least with our current understanding) of time and until you begin to do so there is not much for to do here.

Thank you, I value my awareness of Nothing, maybe when you come to it you'll realize an Existence of no time as well. "Fundamental nature" is an expectation derived of narcissistic Humans, non-fundamental nature is a nature of no expectations, this is how the Existence functions outside of Human's current silly expectations.

Anyone can also type lots of pages saying absolutely nothing about reality and that is what you have been doing for many pages now.

I don't wish to argue, but you still haven't shown me where it is that I messed up. I'd like to be pointed in that direction, please, so that I may help humanity and the consciousness of, to move forward in their understanding of themselves, that which is the Existence.

I am relieved to see that you know something about something.

I all so know something about some thing. Throwing stones doesn't feel good when they bounce front off and come back on you. Again, I don't wish to argue. I'm here to talk about time, you are yet to show me where my awareness of Nothing is false. This is more like a game of lawless political literacy, not that I wouldn't enjoy such a puzzle under the correct circumstances.

Feel free to keep throwing stones if their all of similar inconsequential size.

"They're" is the word we're looking for here.

Your observational skills are clearly quite astute so as to have 'deduced' that you were ' under attack'.

Perhaps it was induced? Thus making me over attack, so as to obtain the ability to observe it. Or maybe I'm just over attacking because its old and gets us no where, but I'm certainly not trying to attack, you can be sure of that.

I normally critici--->s

Um, lets just say... SCREW IT! Forget about it... We all just die, right?

Let's say I look at my watch it says 3:00. I drive to the shops, it is 3:15.
I drive the same distance if im going faster or slower depending on how much energy i use i still get there with the same distance. energy and time are linked this way. the more energy i use the quicker i get there. how do i measure how quick?? "the human concept of time as an illusion" thats stupid. 3:00 could be 3:15 at a metres distance on the amount of energy i use.

time = Energy
Distance

im not sure if that's right but its a quick interpretation

Originally posted by Risingson
Let's say I look at my watch it says 3:00. I drive to the shops, it is 3:15.

Yes, you have just "timed" your self through the invention of "time". "Existentially" there is no time as there was no beginning and there will be no ending to what is referred to as the "universe", and this universe is not a bubble.

I drive the same distance if im going faster or slower depending on how much energy i use i still get there with the same distance.

True.

energy and time are linked this way. the more energy i use the quicker i get there. how do i measure how quick?? "the human concept of time as an illusion" thats stupid. 3:00 could be 3:15 at a metres distance on the amount of energy i use.

This is not all true. You can get to the same point faster while "using less energy". You see, every thing is energy and it is only energy traveling through its self, when this is introduced and applied to "science" we will see a change in Earth technology matching that of imagination.

Illusions are very real, but the only illusion is in the illusion its self and in that sense they are very fake. Either way, they still exist.

Time is a local human creation, not a "universal/Existential" constant

[edit on 31-3-2007 by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal]

Originally posted by StellarX

If you can't contribute anything to the thread you are responding to don't bother posting.

I am not doing anything differently than almost everyone else who responded to this thread. To say that i should 'contribute' assumes that someone else other than blue bird have and last i checked i have already thanked him for his efforts.

Definately don't attack the people that have valid opinions, theories, etc.

You consider what went on this thread 'valid opinions' or 'theories'?
To dispute the fundamental ( and it need not stay that way ) nature of time with the content of this thread is laughable at best.

Stellar

You STILL haven't done anything other than attack the people whom have contributed to this thread. Either learn how to actually respond, or don't bother wasting our time with your attacks.