Why Time Does NOT Exist!

This post will never be resolved. If you want to see an example of this EXACT post go to:

www.physicsforums.com...

We are just continuing to go in circles and while it is a great topic to debate, I don't have the time or energy to debate it anymore.

This is a fascinating thread.
I remember watching a BBC scientific documentary on tv a few years back called 'Time' which discussed all aspects of time and which related our minds perception of time and reality to the speed at which our brains process the millions of images which we process every day.
www.bbc.co.uk...

It was a fascianting programme, I'm sure it can be found on google video
or youtube perhaps.

it has been suggested by jose arguelles, through intense yet speculative research, that the universal frequency of time is generated by the ratio 13:20.

it is from this ratio that ALL cycles derive.

he also suggests that the current measure of time 12:60, was imposed upon mankind in ancient syria as a method to disrupt, and thus control, the psyche of man. (related topic: 2012)

more info can be found here: www.lawoftime.org...

but this references only the measure of time. not whether or not it exists.

Originally posted by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal
This question is directed at anyone:

What is the purpose of categorizing objects in to dimensions? (in reference to it being said, "time is the fourth dimension")

[edit on 21-3-2007 by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal]

Dimension = Measuring

Why space ( our 3D) and time ---> because it is what we perceive - maybe there are many more, but we cannot grasp them...for now, with our human equipment on these evolutionary stage.

Observation of time;
* we see cosmological arrow of time - space is expanding
* thermodinamical arrow ->entropy
* biological arrow - we are born and grow old and day

What... to me, time only egsisted because we have a limited time to live. 60-86 years is long but not long anought oo foget about time. One year u might think you are 16 and then you rolise you can't see but you have masive rincles. Sorry.. i really do not get the 1st post
peace

Could it Be that our senses need to evolve in order to perceive time differently? Our senses at the present time are very limited.

Ever wondered why some dreams seems to take forever even though you realize that you only fell sleep for 5 minutes?

5 minutes with a pretty girl is not the same as 5 minutes on top of fire...

Consider this a magician knows that your sense of sight is limited and as the saying goes: "the hand is faster than the eye"....thus the magician creates an ILLUSION making you see what is not happening.

But what if our eyes did not have that limitation? I'm sure magicians will have a heck of a hard time trying to pull a fast one....

Ever considered that our limited senses do not allow us to perceive what is going on around us ....probably time is perceived totally different for a dog or a monkey....

Which of our five senses allows us to perceive/measure time better?

Our Eyes? by watching the clock
Our Ears? by listening to the ticks
Our Touch?
Our Sense of Smell?
Our Sense of Taste?

How do you explain time to someone who was born blind and deaf? how would someone like that perceive time? Longer , shorter?

Originally posted by AkashicWanderer
To me, time is a human construct to quantify the interval between events. It is relative to what it is being measured with, for example, the amount of times a Celsium 22 atom vibrates while a feather falls to the floor.

Using this definition, time most certainly exists.

Inverential peace,
Akashic

Time does not exist because that is still a human measurement.When the Atom vibrates that is a movement which is distance like taking 1 step down a road.Sorry bud.I like the idea that Motion is forever,no start and no finish .we all vibrate with the universe as one.Although we don't all vibrate at the same speed.Heat requires faster vibration,fire,the sun etc.I think if you travel into a Black hole in space ,time does not really slow down your age compared to people on Earth but your Atoms simply vibrate much slower so when you get back to Earth everyone you knew is dead from old age but you stayed young.This still is not time ,The people age because of other natural reasons.If Doctors find cures for all diseases and fix The DNA that causes our bodies to stop working after the cells stop multiplying(distance again). The Earth people would not "Age".

Seriously people ,I know it's a tough concept to grasp for some of you but just use your mind to get it.Time is a false perception of our mind only.Think about how a tape or old movie film works.We only heer or see motion if we watch one spot on the screen or tv.we can't see any movement if we look at the whole film or tape .it needs to move(distance again)past a light on the projector,then we see movement on 1 screen.Our reality is now not before or later but now --forever.Get it people?

Originally posted by AMANNAMEDQUEST
As for balls-

A thought experiment: Take a ball or whatever and roll it across the floor/ground some 10 feet from wherever you are. You release the ball, it travels, and eventually comes to rest in a different spot than where you are.

When you released the ball, did it appear in its new resting place instantaneously? Why not? You, as humans, created the measurement of seconds - that makes order for your universe, and explains this "phenomenon". But if what we are measuring, Time, is just a concept we created, why did the ball not simply appear in its new resting place the very instant you released it?

I don't know if this was already said. Sorry, I don't have time to read the rest of the thread past this point.

The reason the ball doesn't appear in its new place instantaneously because of the rate of definition. Which is the speed of light according to Einstein. Einstein use time as part of the fabric of the cosmos. He apparently thought that time did exist but not in the way of the common understanding of time. Time is the result of events taking place in order and not all at once due do the speed limit of light. The effects of one event at point A can not reach point B in the universe instantaneously because of the speed limit of light. This limit causes everything to happen at a set rate creating the image of time. Since the limit reaches everything in our immediate level of existence it is part of everything in our reality of existence. Time is simply a name for this effect/limit and does exist. A limit can have a name. Time is the name of this limit/effect. This limit/effect exists so we can conclude that time exists.

[edit on 22-3-2007 by halfmask]

Your thread immediately caught my eye and I'm compelled to finally spill some beans on a story I have not shared with many.

When I was young and just out of high school some friends invited me out on a journey, a kind of psychedelic journey let's just say. I have always been the one to wander off and ponder life, star gaze, etc. So, as I'm sitting down alone, staring at the sky, I hear one of the guys yell to everyone around that it's "time" to go. So, I wondered to myself, "What is time?" At this moment, this voice comes out of the sky and tells me "There is no time, there is no yesterday, there is no tomorrow, there is only now"

Take it for what it's worth. Sounds crazy eh? I agree. But if you knew me then, you would know that I would have NEVER came up with a statement like that.

Can I ask has anyone else experienced something like this? I mean, how do you, the OP, know about this? Many people can't even grasp the concept at all, and here we are with a nice little thread on the subject.

Well, time for bed ;-)

reality is made up of dimensional points playing hula-hoop with one another in an exchange of electro-magnetic properties called SPIN.

time exists, as WE know it, only within any given cycle between two THEORETICALLY polar opposites. night and day. then and now. relativity.

but, as in all questions of meta-meta levelling, there is a perspective from which any two poles are unified. this is called the "next dimension". new dimensions, by definition, must resolve the duality. from outer space, it is not "night and day", but an exchange between two massive bodies.

does time exist?

yes no

sandwiched between the two polar opposites sits the very definition of the quantum state, "probably so".

in our current state of SPIN, uncertainty [proper] is sourced directly and exclusively from "the future". this gives perception an unbalanced feeling, as the sensation of falling into a super-dense pit.

but as the pendulum at the apex of its course, every cycle has a return path. it is at the moment of pause between paths, the omega point, that intelligence (uncertainty) may transcend into higher dimensions. the bell curve becomes tangential.

there is a reference of existence (given in the movie www.tenthdimension.com...) which is the infinity of infinities: the tenth dimension. it is only from this theoretical dimension that time "as it truly exists" exists.

we do not need new senses. we are there already.

duh.

Time, like all 3 physical dimensions is up to humans to quantify, however it does in fact exist.

Just like the X, Y, Z coordinate system, time needs a numerical system applied to it for it to make sense.

If say, the X system were'nt quanitified, we wouldnt be able to name a specific point along it, hence we wouldnt be able to locate anything.

Time does in fact exist, however, without us actually aplying a numerical system to it, we wouldnt be able to make sense of it.

Originally posted by blue bird

Dimension = Measuring

Why space ( our 3D) and time ---> because it is what we perceive - maybe there are many more, but we cannot grasp them...for now, with our human equipment on these evolutionary stage.

Observation of time;
* we see cosmological arrow of time - space is expanding
* thermodinamical arrow ->entropy
* biological arrow - we are born and grow old and day

Space is not expanding, it all ready is every where, there is not a bubble universe - see definition of nothing as to why this cannot be.

entropy has all ready reached a state of equillibrium and perfection and all ways was there, we were just not aware of it.

Dimensions are only relative to reference. Where an observer see's height, an other observer tilted on his/her side at 90 degrees viewing the same object sees width.

There can be no dimension when any attribute of the "3"(height, width, depth) are placed at 0, thus there are no 2 dimensional objects and there are no one dimensional objects.

A 2 dimensional object hypothesizes that one of the 3 dimensions must have an attribute of 0. If a thing/shape/object loses its depth, its height, or its length, a thing/shape/object becoms non-existent.

This is another way for the leaders to control and stupify the masses and keep them under a system of their liking, first it was done through religion, now they will try science, but science its self, human logic, and the philosophy there of will not allow this

The question still stands : What is the purpose of organizing and categorizing "space" in to theoretical dimensions such as 2 dimensional and one dimensional objects by them selves if they don't and can't Exist any way?

[edit on 22-3-2007 by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal]

Originally posted by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal

Space is not expanding, it all ready is every where, there is not a bubble universe - see definition of nothing as to why this cannot be.

entropy has all ready reached a state of equillibrium and perfection and all ways was there, we were just not aware of it.


[edit on 22-3-2007 by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal]

LastOut - I have no problem with metaphysic - but this is section of science, so when you say ' space is not expanding - no bubble universe' - you should beck up your statements with something.

But in any case, when you say 'entropy is over - now is state of equilibrium', consequence of that is: we have a dead, could remains of universe, nothing is going on,there is uniform environment on a standstill,- so no motion, because chemical and electric potentials are equalized.......that's thermodynamical equilibrium!


I can see all around me that Boltzmann was very right - i am growing older day by day - and it is temporal irreversible process...and am positive sure that my life will reach equilibrium - which is death of me.

Originally posted by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal


The question still stands : What is the purpose of organizing and categorizing "space" in to theoretical dimensions such as 2 dimensional and one dimensional objects by them selves if they don't and can't Exist any way?

[edit on 22-3-2007 by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal]

Many of us call it observing and measuring for gaining knowledge of world we live in.....and this 2D (line) and 1D (point) are tools in something we call math, physics....

There is no bubble universe, not backed up by something, yet backed up by nothing.

The knowledge of nothing, knowing of the non-existent. If there is a "bubble" universe as proposed by many, then nothing is proposed to be outside of it.

Nothing is not an existing factor, it is nothing and it cannot Exist to stop something, anything, nor every thing.

Nothing can and can not be a factor, and only half way understood; Nothing is dichotomous: Existing as an expression so that we may know never ending Existence, and not Existing so that we may know its expression.

A measurable, limited unit appears to be in chaos to some, but the omnipotence of Existence brought about through its never ending nature found in -nothing- that then creates eternity is not only limited, it is perfect whether viewed as chaotic or orderly. If Existence was not perfect and at a state of equillibrium it would cease to Exist under its own imperfection. The current concept of perfection is an expectation and a judgement of man for it to be a wanted and/or certain/specified way, but it is the way it is, all ways, and perfection is every thing.

With no beginning exists no time. Time is the creation of man, man has created the bubble "uni-verse" and man has created the "big bang" all under hypothetical stamps of theoretical approval

[edit on 22-3-2007 by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal]

Originally posted by blue bird

Many of us call it observing and measuring for gaining knowledge of world we live in.....and this 2D (line) and 1D (point) are tools in something we call math, physics....

Math and physics are comprehended, that is why they are being fixed.

a 2d object uses the false assumption that one dimension can have a measurement of 0. To take a 3 dimensional object (height, width, depth) and render one of its dimension's measurements to be 0, is to cause the entire object itself to cease Existing.

Close your eyes and imagine, please. A measurement of zero, 0, nil, ZERO (excuse my caps, only for emphasis) All dimensions must have some measurement, whether one be 0.000000000001 to Exist

[edit on 22-3-2007 by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal]

Originally posted by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal
There is no bubble universe, not backed up by something, yet backed up by nothing.

If there is a "bubble" universe as proposed by many, then nothing is proposed to be outside of it.


[edit on 22-3-2007 by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal]

Theory of Big Bang ( i am not going to say whether it is true or not) don't say anything about condition BEFORE...which is very smart

Originally posted by blue bird

Theory of Big Bang ( i am not going to say whether it is true or not) don't say anything about condition BEFORE...which is very smart

Or very stupid?

LastOut - tell me please coz I am coming to understand from were you are coming, is that a definition of equilibrium from nothingness theory:

Nothingness: A state of perfectly uniform static equilibrium constituting relative nonexistence. A state that exists relative to absolute nonexistence but does not exist relative to temporal existence.

Where is your source and definition coming from? I have never heard of a nothingness "theory"

"quote:
Nothingness: A state of perfectly uniform static equilibrium constituting relative nonexistence. A state that exists relative to absolute nonexistence but does not exist relative to temporal existence."

[edit on 22-3-2007 by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal]