Why Time Does NOT Exist!

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posted on Mar, 20 2007 @ 10:02 PM
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One of these days hopefully physics will actually catch up to what is really going on around us, maybe in that future day physicist will actually be trying to solve the mysteries of nature (and not just trying to sound smart)
time, i repeat, time does not exist. time is the equivalent of using god to explain how the universe came to be. He just created it and it was there (where the heck did HE come from), physicists , the preachers of the scientific world whose every word we swallow up like the solid truth including their irrational flaws in physics, created time to explain...actually i dont know what they were trying to explain, perhaps someting along the lines of the linear definition and movement of the past present and future. but in my defence as Antiphon the Sophist once said... "time is not a reality but a concept or measure", and Ralph Waldo Emerson follows up with "past and future are only present projections of memeory and hope" couldn't have said it better myself.


There is...
-rate
-speed
-the measurement of acceleration via the illusion cast by the definition of seconds, hours, years etc...
-memory, prediction and hope (emotions and perceptions cast by mental awareness)

There is not...
-a linear, circular or otherwise movement of "flow" affecting physical matter, space and energy of the univese or universes thereof

reciprocating the sentiments of John McTaggert Ellis McTaggert, time demands change and everything does not change, allow me to digress into an exemplary instance to demonstrate...

Lets say that one day an astronaut in the year 2000 dropped a small red ball into deep space (interplanetary to avoid all those gravity dilemnas) this ball floats about in spcae for millions of years perhaps hit by the occasional dust particle or small rock but it will survive, now our little astronaut buddy has been in cryo-storage all this time and hasn't aged a tad, imagine his surprise when upon his next venture into space he finds the same ball totally unchanged.

yeah, i know im good. so lets see what yall have to say now eh?




posted on Mar, 20 2007 @ 10:31 PM
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Amen brother, amen...

All is one, there is no time as we are living in one constant stream of cyclical "time." As you stated though, linear time as we think it exists is actually a falsity...

Enter quantum mechanics/physics...

We believe we live in the 3rd dimension, when in fact its the 4th and possibly higher ones that we just can't quite understand (gravity, light, etc etc). 4th happens to be "time" as we understand it, but not in a linear sense...

All is happening at once, there is no past/present/future as you said.

It took me a little while to grasp this concept, but after a while it made a lot of sense.

This was something I grappled with as a young child. I could not understand time. Why did I have to go to church at 10am every Sunday, why did I have school from 8am-3pm every weekday, why why why etc...

Its never really made sense to me and now with my exploring of the quantum world thanks to "What the Bleep" among other things...



posted on Mar, 20 2007 @ 10:40 PM
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Isn't there like 12 dimensions?



posted on Mar, 20 2007 @ 10:45 PM
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ur little red ball story makes no sense to me, why should he be surprised to find the ball still there? and imo without time there would be chaos
how would you know when to go to work and worse again how would you know when its time to leave, thats one example of why time is needed



posted on Mar, 20 2007 @ 10:48 PM
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I don't think our language is yet capable to express time. Is not time a human measurement? I don't believe in time travel because I don't believe time to be a place. There is only the "now" that we experience[although most of us spend time daydreaming in fantasies or past, future events]. But things undoubtedly are born, decay, and die. So why exactly can't time exist? And if time does not exist, then there are contradictions in your post.

example




One of these days hopefully physics will actually catch up to what is really going on around us, maybe in that future day physicist will actually be trying to solve the mysteries of nature (and not just trying to sound smart)
In this quote you say "maybe in that future day...."
I thought you said time is not linear, let alone exist.



posted on Mar, 20 2007 @ 10:51 PM
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Originally posted by PlayeR87
and imo without time there would be chaos
how would you know when to go to work and worse again how would you know when its time to leave, thats one example of why time is needed


Not exactly...Humans created the IDEA of time. We assume it to be correct because it helps us with understand linear motion.

Everything is one. There is no past/present/future. Time is cyclical. Events repeat themselves until they are resolved and consciousness can evolve.

Time is not a necessity for you to know when to go to work.

When you wake up and there's the sun, ok time for work. Get up and toil the fields. Your rooster crows at the crack of dawn, alright its time to start milking the cows.

Time is a HUMAN CONSTRUCT OF THE MIND NOTHING MORE!!!



posted on Mar, 20 2007 @ 10:52 PM
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As for balls-

A thought experiment: Take a ball or whatever and roll it across the floor/ground some 10 feet from wherever you are. You release the ball, it travels, and eventually comes to rest in a different spot than where you are.

When you released the ball, did it appear in its new resting place instantaneously? Why not? You, as humans, created the measurement of seconds - that makes order for your universe, and explains this "phenomenon". But if what we are measuring, Time, is just a concept we created, why did the ball not simply appear in its new resting place the very instant you released it?



posted on Mar, 20 2007 @ 10:52 PM
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the way i look at things there is the WAS, the NOW, and the WILL BE



posted on Mar, 20 2007 @ 11:28 PM
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Originally posted by PlayeR87
the way i look at things there is the WAS, the NOW, and the WILL BE


There is only the constant "NOW", it's the mind that links the events together.
There is physical time which clocks measure, then there is psychological time.



posted on Mar, 21 2007 @ 02:09 AM
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Originally posted by Mysteri
physicists , the preachers of the scientific world whose every word we swallow up like the solid truth including their irrational flaws in physics


So all of of accept it? hmmm....I find that hard to believe.


Originally posted by Mysteri
Lets say that one day an astronaut in the year 2000 dropped a small red ball into deep space (interplanetary to avoid all those gravity dilemnas) this ball floats about in spcae for millions of years perhaps hit by the occasional dust particle or small rock but it will survive, now our little astronaut buddy has been in cryo-storage all this time and hasn't aged a tad, imagine his surprise when upon his next venture into space he finds the same ball totally unchanged.


How does this support you?

Time as we use it everyday is different to "time". Time does not work in hours or minutes. Yes time is a human measuremnt but there is a Time in the universe just not the way we think of it i.e. hours,minutes etc.

If time does not exist then everything would happen instantly or never. When an object is moving across, it takes time for it to do so.

What do you think of spacetime then?



posted on Mar, 21 2007 @ 03:57 AM
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Originally posted by AMANNAMEDQUEST
You, as humans, created........




excuse my observative powers but are you not a human??



posted on Mar, 21 2007 @ 07:19 AM
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Originally posted by Mysteri
One of these days hopefully physics will actually catch up to what is really going on around us, maybe in that future day physicist will actually be trying to solve the mysteries of nature (and not just trying to sound smart)
time, i repeat, time does not exist. time is the equivalent of using god to explain how the universe came to be. He just created it and it was there (where the heck did HE come from), physicists , the preachers of the scientific world whose every word we swallow up like the solid truth including their irrational flaws in physics, created time to explain...actually i dont know what they were trying to explain, perhaps someting along the lines of the linear definition and movement of the past present and future. but in my defence as Antiphon the Sophist once said... "time is not a reality but a concept or measure", and Ralph Waldo Emerson follows up with "past and future are only present projections of memeory and hope" couldn't have said it better myself.


There is...
-rate
-speed
-the measurement of acceleration via the illusion cast by the definition of seconds, hours, years etc...
-memory, prediction and hope (emotions and perceptions cast by mental awareness)

There is not...
-a linear, circular or otherwise movement of "flow" affecting physical matter, space and energy of the univese or universes thereof

reciprocating the sentiments of John McTaggert Ellis McTaggert, time demands change and everything does not change, allow me to digress into an exemplary instance to demonstrate...

Lets say that one day an astronaut in the year 2000 dropped a small red ball into deep space (interplanetary to avoid all those gravity dilemnas) this ball floats about in spcae for millions of years perhaps hit by the occasional dust particle or small rock but it will survive, now our little astronaut buddy has been in cryo-storage all this time and hasn't aged a tad, imagine his surprise when upon his next venture into space he finds the same ball totally unchanged.

yeah, i know im good. so lets see what yall have to say now eh?


But if we had not invented the Concept of time how would we know when to Harvest Grain? Our Early Civilization would slowly starved with growing population....

How would we have know that winter is quickly approaching , thus making us aware that we need to quickly gather wood and prepare shelter?

How would we know when American Idol will start? ohhh the humanity!



posted on Mar, 21 2007 @ 07:54 AM
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Originally posted by a1ex

But if we had not invented the Concept of time how would we know when to Harvest Grain? Our Early Civilization would slowly starved with growing population....

How would we have know that winter is quickly approaching , thus making us aware that we need to quickly gather wood and prepare shelter?

How would we know when American Idol will start? ohhh the humanity!


Time, as a concept, is only a reference. It provides us all with a "handle" on which to grasp the reality that we experience.

In a way, time is a lattice-work that allows existence to grow from a singular point called the Big Bang.

Really guys, this is beyond the "smokin'-the-dooby" stage of discussion. Although time is a great topic and as to whether it exists or not...every time an equinox or solstice rolls around, it's worth mentioning. For a brief moment there is hang-time for the planet and whether you're looking at the cosmos through the Hubble or just in some backwater civilization waiting for your grains to harvest, everyone knows that feeling of suspension.

What will happen next? Time will tell.



posted on Mar, 21 2007 @ 07:58 AM
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Time and Space are the SAME THING.

We can not detect or percieve time, only the changes which occur over a period of time.

The physical universe creates "time" as we know it. If there was no cyclical movement of the stars, planets, galaxies, then there would be no changes for us to percieve...

You see, the motion of the universe is what creates time. When you sleep, or are in a different state of consciousness (outside physical reality), time ceases to exist altogether, past present and future all become one.

One final thing i need to add; Motion is consciousness, consciousness is everything



posted on Mar, 21 2007 @ 08:14 AM
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Time is an illusion created by motion at the quantum level.

How "fast" does time run? Our brains have an area located in the Hypothalamus that known effectionately as "the God Clock", we can ONLY experience time at the rate this "god clock" ticks, from ONE click to the NEXT click is a single moment in time for us. This can speed up or slow down accordingly,and a fly can percieve things 7-20....TWENTY!! times faster than a human.......

So, how fast is the cocept of time? On the Sun you will age an hour faster than here on Earth,gravity effects time, So how fast does time flow in deep space?

Time can ONLY be measured as "change" in a system, change in position, change in speed, change in form/structure...(which, if you REALLY thing about that on the quantum level is again ONLY a change in motion,position etc.).

So we know that time is linked with motion, but where IS this motion comming from?

Atomic particles vibrate at a rate,depending on density (and some other factors that we're not concerned with here), if something "vibrates", you can be sure this meens a DYNAMIC or CHANGING system,with the change occuring in either position,motion,speed etc.

These "changes" could also be concieved (as best we can with our limited knowledge of the quantum Universe) as PULSES, each "change" being one pulse.

We can ONLY experience PHYSICAL time at the collective rate of these pulses, as NOTHING can change between these pulses as each pulse IS the RATE of CHANGE.

Light, I would summise from this,would be the "quickest" rate of change in the universe, as nothing can change its state of motion quicker.

So the RATE of this CHANGE that we collectively experience as time,through being an observer with the NEED to quantify the world around us........

IS......186,282.397 M/s (Miles per second)
Or......144,000 Geodetic Miles per Grid Second (Cpt. Bruce L. Cathie)

Just my views on the subject, hope it doesn't read like i think i "know" what im talking about, but im not re-writting it to reflect that
...

Just adding my ideas and questions to the topic, which is exellent by the way.

And to Mysteri: i agree with your ideas, and tis a very interesting subject.
Top marks


Edited to add: Shruken simon.....yes dude, Motion is the key, but then motion is ALSO a abstract concept denoted by change....which is time.....

...so YES, Consciousness has a LOT to answer for


[edit on 21-3-2007 by Anomic of Nihilism]



posted on Mar, 21 2007 @ 08:22 AM
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Hey great,I happened to find this thread over here
I asked this question last night in another ATS forum creation,about Time and nobody seemed to understand my question...I should have checked this forum first,my question was here.....
www.abovetopsecret.com...



posted on Mar, 21 2007 @ 08:30 AM
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Originally posted by AMANNAMEDQUEST
As for balls-

A thought experiment: Take a ball or whatever and roll it across the floor/ground some 10 feet from wherever you are. You release the ball, it travels, and eventually comes to rest in a different spot than where you are.

When you released the ball, did it appear in its new resting place instantaneously? Why not? You, as humans, created the measurement of seconds - that makes order for your universe, and explains this "phenomenon". But if what we are measuring, Time, is just a concept we created, why did the ball not simply appear in its new resting place the very instant you released it?


distance is real but time is not and this is what confuses me,I need better understanding of the whole black hole thing ,where Time supposed to slow down but it's just distance really stopping or something,ouch my brain!



posted on Mar, 21 2007 @ 08:46 AM
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Originally posted by mistr_b2
distance is real but time is not and this is what confuses me,I need better understanding of the whole black hole thing ,where Time supposed to slow down but it's just distance really stopping or something,ouch my brain!


If you want to understand, thinking about blackholes should be your last area of research.

Why? Because not alot is properly understood about them, and IMHO (and others will agree) Stephen Hawkings is actually fundamentally wrong about blackholes.

Blackholes are not a good place to start in order to increase your wisdom and understanding of reality...

IMO blackholes are not holes, nor are they infinitly dense. There is something happening on the surface of the star that we do not understand, that is making it appear void of light. I also feel rotation of the star is important in regards to blackholes. In other words, the star is still there, but some special reaction has taken place, making it behave very oddly.



posted on Mar, 21 2007 @ 08:48 AM
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Edited to add: Shruken simon.....yes dude, Motion is the key, but then motion is ALSO a abstract concept denoted by change....which is time.....

...so YES, Consciousness has a LOT to answer for


[edit on 21-3-2007 by Anomic of Nihilism]


Indeed. What creates the motion in the first place
Its one of those things i can not explain th individual parts seperately, it only makes sense when you regard them altogether at once. But yeh, consciousness does have a lot to answer for



posted on Mar, 21 2007 @ 08:50 AM
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Originally posted by Mysteri
...but in my defence as Antiphon the Sophist once said... "time is not a reality but a concept or measure", and Ralph Waldo Emerson follows up with "past and future are only present projections of memeory and hope" couldn't have said it better myself.


There is...
-rate
-speed
-the measurement of acceleration via the illusion cast by the definition of seconds, hours, years etc...
-memory, prediction and hope (emotions and perceptions cast by mental awareness)

There is not...
-a linear, circular or otherwise movement of "flow" affecting physical matter, space and energy of the univese or universes thereof



Were your argument true, then there would be none of our three dimensions as the meter and the foot are human explanation for what we see and everything then becomes nothing but a figment of ones imagination and an imagination couldn't exist without a brain and a brain couldn't exist with out three dimension just as much as it couldn't function without time. Its nonsensical to believe that time does not exist for the simple reason that:
position, velocity, acceleration, jerk are all basic functions of time and can only be accurately interrelated in calculus with respect to time. What is speed or acceleration or position or jerk if not defined by the ubiquitous time? There would only be position. I couldn't imagine my job without time, pipe flow would become infinitely more difficult (no movement) but on the other hand those pesky freeze and thaw cycles movement fatigue would be a thing on the past.





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