Why worship?

Worship is a function of faith. Embracing violence is a function of fear, loathing and surrender to the negative in the world.

Worship is not about imaginary beings. Don't try to raise that argument. Worship is to soothe a soul. Collecting firearms, adorning one's body with painful reminders such as peircings, tattoos and the like...engaging in violent behavior...this is about punishment of the very thing that enables one to participate in those activities in the first place...life.

By the very logic of that statement, anyone can determine that engaging in that behavior is not worship but quite the opposite...it is railing against the force that brought one here.

Whether you were born of the most heinous act or raised in the wealthiest and most loving environment, the chance to be here was given all the same.

Your choice to make of it was ultimately your own.

Worship is reflection on that choice (among other things). There is no substitute for communicating with that higher intelligence that is god. There is no substitute for understanding where one fits within that intelligence.

I'm sorry if anyone sees it differently. For some, that reality is probably even more harsh than the reality they are trying to create through the violence and degradation they bring unto themselves.

I'm surprised God's wrath upon anyone through ignorance isn't enough pain and suffering, let alone add the anti-social stuff on top of that...

Originally posted by TheB1ueSoldier

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
if a deity that's the sole example of its omni^3 kind needs worship, it must be very egotistical, insecure, or manipulative

Or perhaps the worship is not for God, but for us. Prayer is speaking to God. Meditation is listening. When you kneel down and sincerely ask questions (not favors), you learn humility and build a closer relationship to God. Worship not only helps God, but it helps us too. It helps us learn about sacrifice, redemption, humility, and all that good stuff.

Sounds great, I wonder why it hasn't solved most of the problem here on Earth.

Worshiping the right path but in the wrong way?
Worshiping the wrong path?
Not worshiping enough or not worshiping at all?

Does worshiping include absolute obedience to one's God/deity and pure faith? Which teaches morals based on that faith's or Gods/deities points of view?

Who are we to question God's plan? Only get the answers when we die? Questioning faith is an attack on the religion? I wonder who thought of that?

Every tyrants dream come true....

I don't think Jesus orginial message was for people to worship him, God or even the message itself, but to live our lives based on his teachings to become decent and understanding beings.

More like a moral phiosophy/guild/teaching than a religion of obedience and worship.

I believed some tyrants came along and decided to turn this phiosophy into a religion to control his civilzation. Smart.

What does a moral enlighten being gain from being worshipped? To satisfy an Ego? Gain a sence of Pride? Beome more arrogance of his abilities and his plans and ideas?

I thought only self centred beings craved that... maybe I am wrong? And the universe can be cruel?

Am I to be labelled an infidel, a blasphemer, a heretic, a follower of satan, a witch for questioning or suggesting this? ... I wonder why....


[edit on 24-3-2007 by ixiy]

*sigh*.... believe what you want ixixy. I'm tired of arguing with people who distort, misquote, misguide, and deform whatever I say to fit their viewpoints. Believe what you want, because you obviously don't have the decency or wisdom to bring up some new viewpoints or information about this debate.

You're just flogging a dead horse, and frankly, I don't have the time to type up a whole lecture when you're just going to brush it off or distort what I said. I'm done with this thread.

What does a moral enlighten being gain from being worshipped? To satisfy an Ego? Gain a sence of Pride? Beome more arrogance of his abilities and his plans and ideas?

The idea of worship to me is more of an act of reverence, which is an act of respect. And once you come to realise that God is in fact real, you will truley be brought to your knees by the very realization of your own arrogance and pride, no offense intended, but when God reveals Himself to our puny little minds, we are instantly humbled before Him.
Just imagine for a moment, hypothectically if need be, that the Creator of all that is, and all that you could imagine was indeed truely real and decided it was time for you to know it. From your current state of belief you would be transformed in an instant into His reality, from that moment on you would then know He exist, and for all your worth you would then whole heartedly worship or revere His very existence. To know that He is real forever changes you and you know what was once your limited ego is nothing. And then, now you have live with that information in the now not so real world, anymore. Be careful my friends, take heed, lest ye not have to eat so many words when the Living God approaches...
But please, don't take my word's for it, continue to seek. It is because you are contemplating Him, that makes me believe He is approaching you.
See to it that you catch the shield He throws you, you'll need it for the fiery darts that will also be coming your way, the balance in the spiritual realm is also maintained, and as in this world there is both good and evil, believe it or not, always your choice.....

Originally posted by holidaystar1
The idea of worship to me is more of an act of reverence, which is an act of respect. And once you come to realise that God is in fact real, you will truley be brought to your knees by the very realization of your own arrogance and pride, no offense intended, but when God reveals Himself to our puny little minds, we are instantly humbled before Him.

I do believe in the bible's and other religions Gods, devils, angels, guardian spirits, strange or powerful entities existence and influence on mankind's history.

But I also noticed that some of them seem egoistic, proud and arrogant. Delighting in mankind's obedience and adoration.

The other entities appear to be more humble and seemed more interested in the moral and social development of early mankind and do not seek our obedience or adoration.

I find the differences between these anicent entities to be most interesting and most important. I believe that their true intentions can be revealed by studing the actions/teachings/recordings of ancient text/paintings/history from those eras.

--------------------------------------

In the future, when mankind discovers a primitive but intelligent lifeform on another planet would we seek to decieve them into servitude using our advanced knowledge, skill and technology by posing as all knowing, all powerful entities?

Or would we try to understand, respect and share with them some of the knowledge that we have learnt so far?

If we choose to play God to exploit them, how will these primitive lifeforms ever know of our cruel intentions? When would they discover the trap? Would they be able to break free from the trap? Would another kind benevolent and advanced space faring race/lifeform choose to help them see and escape from this trap?

More importantly.... Did the same thing happen to mankind in our history? Can we see it? Who are the decievers? Who are the benevolent ones?

[edit on 25-3-2007 by ixiy]

Originally posted by holidaystar1

Just imagine for a moment, hypothectically if need be, that the Creator of all that is, and all that you could imagine was indeed truely real and decided it was time for you to know it. From your current state of belief you would be transformed in an instant into His reality, from that moment on you would then know He exist, and for all your worth you would then whole heartedly worship or revere His very existence.

Well not quite!!! - I would acknowledge its existence but as for wholeheartedly worshipping it??? Oh I think not.

To know that He is real forever changes you and you know what was once your limited ego is nothing. And then, now you have live with that information in the now not so real world, anymore. Be careful my friends, take heed, lest ye not have to eat so many words when the Living God approaches...

To know that a deity is real would not really change me, as this deity has done nothing for me thus far so doesn't deserve any reverance from me.

But please, don't take my word's for it, continue to seek. It is because you are contemplating Him, that makes me believe He is approaching you.
See to it that you catch the shield He throws you, you'll need it for the fiery darts that will also be coming your way, the balance in the spiritual realm is also maintained, and as in this world there is both good and evil, believe it or not, always your choice.....

Define good and evil???




G

Originally posted by shihulud

To know that a deity is real would not really change me, as this deity has done nothing for me thus far so doesn't deserve any reverance from me.

OK, if you say so, I mean if that is what you believe then I guess it must be so??? But in the hypothetical construct, remember that this Being is responsible for your very existence, so then, hypothetically He has done everything for you, all that you experience is a direct result of Him. Don't worry, I know from reading many of your previous post that you do not believe God exist. And I realize that nothing I say will change your mind. Many tried to tell me along the way, and though I would never have smitted them for trying to help, I too rejected most of their beliefs.
When God wants you to know He is real, He will show you.

Define good and evil???

I think each of us has a pretty clear picture of what is good and what is evil. It is where we mix black and white that things get grey...

Anyway, back to the idea of the original post, Why worship?
Because it is good to...

Worship hmm, well I tend to think of worship as a recognition of everything God has done for, me I mean He's done so much I could never thank Him enough for it. Also considering the sacrifice He made for us and the fact that He created us, I think we got off lucky that the only sacrifice he demands of us is a sacrifice of praise. The bible also says we should obey God and sometimes that cn be hard but I find worshipping reaffirms my faith and makes it that much easier for me to obey him.

Religion and Spirituality

Very different things.

Both imply different philosophical concepts.

Both result from spiritual stimuli.

But one incoporates morality, ethics, law and even rationality (reason).

The other one does not include this.

Who creates religion? Is it God? It is man.

Who creates spirituality? Is it God? yes. Since it has always existed.

Most people say God is everything, all facets of creation.

So "God" is wanting to worship itself?

Man will create religion through unique idealism. Not "God".

Religion is a beautiful thing, but should it be taken exclusively? No since a doctrine will not justify paradox.

My favourite teacher said this:

Give to Caesar what is Caesar's and to God what is God's.

[edit on 28-3-2007 by Selmer2]

Upon further examination,,
Who would want to worship such a God..???:bnghd:

"O daughter of Babylon, who art to be destroyed; happy shall he be,

that rewardeth thee as thou hast served us. Happy shall he be, that

taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones." (Psalms 137:8-9)



"The people of Samaria must bear their guilt, because they have rebelled

against their God. They will fall by the sword; their little ones will be

dashed to the ground, their pregnant women ripped open." (Hosea 13:16)



"Every one that is found shall be thrust through; and every one that is

joined unto them shall fall by the sword.

Their children also shall be dashed to pieces before their eyes; their

houses shall be spoiled, and their wives ravished." (Isaiah 13:15,16)



"Their bows also shall dash the young men to pieces; and they

shall have no pity on the fruit of the womb; their eye shall not spare

children." (Isaiah 13:18)
I am the LORD your God, ...... And ye shall eat the flesh of your sons, and the flesh of your daughters shall ye eat." (Leviticus 26:13,29)



"And thou shalt eat the fruit of thine own body, the flesh of thy

sons and of thy daughters, which the LORD thy God hath given thee,

in the siege, and in the straitness, wherewith thine enemies shall distress

thee:.............. And toward her young one that cometh out from between

her feet, and toward her children which she shall bear: for she shall

eat them for want of all things secretly in the siege and straitness, wherewith

thine enemy shall distress thee in thy gates." (Deuteronomy 28:53-57)



"Therefore, behold, the days come, saith the LORD,..... And I will cause them to eat the flesh of their sons and the flesh of their daughters, and they shall eat every one of the flesh of his friend in the siege and straitness, wherewith their enemies, and they that seek their lives, shall straiten them." (Jeremiah 19:6-9)



"Therefore fathers shall eat their sons in the midst of you and sons

shall eat their fathers.......I will send famine and wild beasts against you

and they shall rob you of your children; pestilence and blood shall pass

through you; and I will bring a sword upon you. I, the Lord, have

spoken." (Ezekiel 5:10, 17)



"The hands of the pitiful women have sodden their own children: they were their meat in the destruction of the daughter of my people. The Lord hath accomplished his fury; he hath poured out his fierce anger, and hath kindled a fire in Zion, and it hath devoured the foundations thereof." (Lamentations 4:10-11)

If that isn't enough, how would you feel if your daughter was raken for someones sexual pleasures while her family is slaughtered all in the name of god?

When you go out to war against your enemies, and the Lord your God delivers them into your hand, and you take them captive, and you see among the captives a beautiful woman, and desire her and would take her for your wife, then you shall bring her home to your house, and she shall shave her head and trim her nails. She shall put off the clothes of her captivity, remain in your house, and mourn her father and her mother a full month; after that you may go in to her and be her husband, and she shall be your wife. And it shall be, if you have no delight in her, then you shall set her free, but you certainly shall not sell her for money; you shall not treat her brutally, because you have humbled her (Deuteronomy 21:10-14).

Don't leave the brain outside, use it!!

I worship my iguana, because she's my baby. I don't know what else to say.

Originally posted by WiseSheep
Because HE IS.

Excellent reason! What a powerful mind you have to solve this great puzzle!

Originally posted by WiseSheep
Anything that goes against his word is. Either that or of demons. There's enough of them running around to stock the place two or three times.

You must work hard to maintain this fantasy in spite of the ever encroaching real world.

Originally posted by WiseSheep
He is, but on the same note patient enough to allow us ample time to come to the knowledge of the truth. That's why he's allowing all the garbage that's going on to continue, until that appointed time.

He arbitrarily appoints a time when someone of your favor will learn your "The Truth", then he gets brimstone on us.

Originally posted by WiseSheep
No we killed ourselves.

Suicide bombers.

Originally posted by WiseSheep
Man has been spiritually dead from the eating of the tree of knowledge on.

Applegate. It's a simple case of fraud. Eve is innocent according to the law, therefore there is no need for Salvation, nor Christ.

Originally posted by WiseSheep
...they sold it to the most wicked entity in existence.

Professor Moriarty. Just as fictional as Satan.

Originally posted by WiseSheep
A self centered, revengeful GOD does not give his own life, to give the ones that continually slap him in the face a chance at eternal life.

An immortal being cannot die, therefore God cannot die, therefore cannot give his life, therefore cannot use a pretend death to perform any (blatantly unnecessary) function. Besides, if he is a god, he can just forgive without the need for a PETTY sacrifice like Jebus. I can just forgive WiseSheep, therefore I am greater than Christ.

Originally posted by WiseSheep
They send themselves.

Two tickets to Hell. Sorry, I meant stamps, I'm going in a pine box.

Originally posted by WiseSheep
The only one that can save you is the one who sacrificed himself for your sins. Not one you make up in your head so that it doesn't offend you.

The one who sacrificed himself for your sins is the same one as the one you make up in your head. Or are you offended by Christ, WiseSheep?

Columbus

Worship has no specific meaning. It is simply whatever you do with regards to your obsession. It can include suicide if committing suicide as a ritual act is part of your obsession. Try to use the word worship in a non-religious context.

Jim worships Madonna. Basically Jim collects Madonna albums, then obsessively moves up the ranks to photos, hair samples, then he becomes a stalker, he may attempt to kill her. Worship.

Faith has nothing to do with worship. Faith is confidence. You may or may not have reason to believe something, but faith is your confidence in your belief. The true test of any word is its use in a non-religious context.

His mom has faith her son will pass his math test. The kid may be an idiot and you have no reason to expect him to pass, but a mom does. Faith.

Columbus