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bullet wounds

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posted on Mar, 18 2007 @ 06:38 AM
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Just wondering about the effects of bullet wounds on the human body. If shot in a survival type scenario, without hospitals or medics, what bullet wound/wounds could you survive, what would be untreatable, what wounds could you treat yourself, what equipment do you need, and what happens to your insides by the bullet and the wound. Is there any websites which could offer me information about this? Or just some expert know how? Anything would be nice

Rowan



posted on Mar, 18 2007 @ 07:16 AM
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I believe that this is a very hard question to answer due to the different variables involved.



posted on Mar, 18 2007 @ 07:50 AM
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get yourself a copy of st 31-91b the u.s. army special forces medical handbook. it covers most thing you will encounter.
here is a link to amazon books:

www.amazon.com...

it is not perhaps the best book one anyone subject but it will introduce you to a range of topics from emergency war surgery to dental emergencies.
sportsmans guide and many other sites sell the basic field surgical kit for about 20.00 .

www.sportsmansguide.com...

i hope this helps i know that the idea of being in an emergency situation and being injured can be very scary but you can survive with knowledge and a little luck you can survive.



posted on Mar, 20 2007 @ 01:37 AM
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thank you for the links.

I know its a difficult topic to cover, i just happen to be very fancinated by the human body. I mean for example, I've read about the bodies ability to generate vast quanities of extra blood when the body continually loses blood over a period of months or years. Apparantly many physically active soldiers who lost blood on a regular basis would suddenly become very sick once they were off duty as their bodies were still producing higher quanities of blood, already anticipating that some would be lost, and so once the soldiers stopped active duty they could become very sick for apparantly no reason! They had to slowly drain blood from the patients to stop the body from this "mass production" of blood etc.

I looooove that kinda stuff. Fancinating.

And the "walking ghost" phase of radiation poisoning is scarily cool.



posted on Mar, 20 2007 @ 09:00 PM
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a good source for info on medical subjects is the class text books for first responder or EMT and while you must be licensed to practice these techniques on the public no one can say what you can do to you and yours and if in a fecal impeller impact situation more knowledge is better and better yet as i said in the volunteer to get training thread volunteer and get loads of medical and other training at no cost(money you will pay in time and commitment)



posted on Mar, 21 2007 @ 12:26 AM
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Well lets see, what could I NOT survive without divine intervention:
#1: headshot
#2: shot to the heart
#3: both arms being blown off
#4: both legs being blown off
#5: having part of the body blown off
#6: having my innards blown out
#7: having a major artery blown to bits
#8: having multiple woulnds all over my body, such as being riddled with bullets
#9: Having multiple viruses and diseases at once
#10: falling from an extremely high place without a parachute

In the battlefield I could survive a bullet to any non-vital area, I have my own surgery kit and med-kit to patch myself up so even if I cannot put myself back together I would at LEAST be able to survive long enough to get someplace where someone could or I could get the needed equipment or enviornment. If it is a basic cut I have the needed equipment to take care of it. If it be a deep gash, I can also handle that, I have the needed sterilized catgut to stitch it up. So in short I could survive anything that is not a one-hit kill.



posted on Mar, 21 2007 @ 12:49 AM
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The shock is what does most people in, if I'm not mistaken.

If the injured person just sits down and gives up, any bullet wound can be fatal.

When I was twelve, I broke my knee. I collapsed and cried for a while, but nobody came to help me, so I had no choice but to get up and move. It hurt..a lot. When I got home, my mom didn't believe me (boy who cried wolf). I walked on that leg for THREE WEEKS before my constant complaints were finally heeded, and I saw a doctor.

Point being, whatever happens, keep your head on straight and do what you have to do. If it means holding in your guts with a shopping bag or removing one of your limbs with a sharp stone to free yourself from avalanche debris, just steel yourself and do it.

There are stories of guys who have survived multiple 'fatal' gunshot wounds, because they simply refused to go down. The human mind is a powerful thing - it's the best tool we have in a survival situation. Of course, there's not much you can do if a slug pulls half your brain out through an exit wound the size of a softball..but cest la vie. Just do the best you can...

Attacked by a grizzly bear out in the forest? You could collapse in a little ball and spend your last moments on earth crying and voiding your bowels, or you could put on your game face and kill the big furry bastard with your pocket knife, and then make a hat out of its ass.


So much of it is mental, doesn't matter if it's a riptide, a hurricane, a gunshot wound, or a wild animal attack...

Just my $.02



posted on Mar, 21 2007 @ 01:16 AM
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Having had the oppurtunity to transport gunshot wounds in teenage patients let me add a few things.

WyrdeOne is spot on with the shock aspect. As many know actual gunshot wounds ( aka GSW's in the trade) are not the kind of thing you get up from and keep going, thats strictly movie stuff. Without prompt and expert care the threat of system shock caused by bleeding is signifigant. unless your group has someone skilled in stopping the bleeding and starting an IV and hanging albumen or even sailine, thats the first hurdle.

Lets say by some miracle you get hit and survive, the next spectre is systemic infection. Sepsis is a huge killer in hospitals. take away the antibiotics etc, and you have a huge uphill climb on your hands. Even a flesh wound is susceptable.

Lastly is the part the movies leave out. the extended convalecence and rehab. In an all out survival situation you may not have time or the ability to do either.

This also assumes that you are in a group. If you are by yourself, you are pretty much toast.



posted on Mar, 21 2007 @ 07:19 AM
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all excellent information thanks everyone.

Just a thing about adrenaline, is it possible to be shot/wounded in a high adrenaline event and not know about it? Or be able to continue moving for a few minutes later when normally you'd just pass out or hit the ground?



posted on Mar, 21 2007 @ 07:31 AM
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in military combat situation there are many examples of people being shot pretty much to pieces ( no actually pieces but shot multiple times ) and continuing to fight, the trouble begins when the combat ends and the rush rushes off that's when you either get evac or die or by a miracle survive but hopping up the next day to do it all over again , that don't happen.



posted on Mar, 21 2007 @ 01:18 PM
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It would depend on exactly where you are shot, what kind of bullet is used, distance from which you are shot, and probably your personal physical constitution, in addition to luck.

If you have various calibers and varying bullets with each caliber, you could fire them into ballistic gelatin to get an idea of bullet expansion, or fire them into some melon to see what damage they do. This may give you an idea of what damage can be done.

Generally speaking, the larger caliber, the more damage is done - a shot in the shoulder with a .25 ACP would likely do less damage than, say, a .45 ACP, but I wouldn't want to get shot anywhere with anything, including a BB (which has happened).

Any bullet (or BB) can kill if the conditions are right.



posted on Mar, 21 2007 @ 01:27 PM
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Originally posted by Vekar
Well lets see, what could I NOT survive without divine intervention:
#1: headshot
#2: shot to the heart
#3: both arms being blown off
#4: both legs being blown off
#5: having part of the body blown off
#6: having my innards blown out
#7: having a major artery blown to bits
#8: having multiple woulnds all over my body, such as being riddled with bullets
#9: Having multiple viruses and diseases at once
#10: falling from an extremely high place without a parachute

Ha Ha - i'm sure i've heard people surviving at least 7 out of those 10 (yes Gullible was taken out of the dictonary the day after I died the last time)

Would be cool to reasearch - ever looked at the Darwin awards, still makes me laugh



posted on Mar, 21 2007 @ 02:10 PM
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My point was: if it does not permenantly incapacitate me or kill me instantly I will probably survive. Also yes you can NOT notice you are woulnded, I took a 2 inch long, 1 inch deep gash to my leg once and never noticed because I was too busy running for my life from a bull (about 6-7 years old I believe). Got that because I failed to clear the fence in one leap like my sister did. None the less I never noticed till I got back to the house and my mom noticed I was bleeding and grabbed me, I noticed the blood and long story short: it got treated and the scar is gone now. However that shows that yes adrenallin can mask pain COMPLETELY when its at an all out spurt.

I doubt anyone in the field will have the chance to run IV lines and dope themselves. Remember that this stuff is new, started to show up during WW1-2. The oldest "nerve killer" was opium or bottles of 100 proof like moonshine or rum. You do NOT need the IV to live or a pain killer, just keeping your head about you is more than enough. Yes the others might increase your chances of living a bit but none the less, even with IV's and dope and having some guy freaking out like mad is NOT going to help them survive. Besides if someone shot me and I lived, I would make DARN shure I lived long enough to hunt him/her down and gut them like a fish.

A side note: Wyrdone: if a bear, grizzly, wild cat, pack of wolves or any wild animal showed up and wanted to have me for lunch and I did NOT have a gun on me at the time I would take out the machete and combat knife and yell "yeehaa" while charging. They will have to work for their lunch.

I think the point people are trying to make right now is: KEEP YOUR HEAD ON YOU AND KEEP A HEALTHY ATTITUDE!
Might sound impossible for some but none the less it will greatly increase your chances of survival.


Now_Then: in a situation X type happening, you would not survive that either, that requires a hospital which would be NON EXISTANT! I am talking about realism should anything truely happen when you are NOT near medical treatment.
By the way I would like to see you survive having half your body blown off, both legs blown off, arms blown off, loosing your innards because they are little bits of dust all over the place, falling from a VERY high place (where I am that means falling off a cliff some 1000 feet straight down onto rocks) and having yourself riddled with bullets and having to crawld your bloody stump some 10 hours to the nearest hospital which may or may not be able to help you. Not to mention having multiple viruses and diseases strike you all at once, such as in biological warfare. If you can survive that: you are not human by any means AT ALL.
REMEMBER NT:


posted on 18-3-2007 at 05:38 AM
Just wondering about the effects of bullet wounds on the human body. If shot in a survival type scenario, without hospitals or medics, what bullet wound/wounds could you survive, what would be untreatable, what wounds could you treat yourself, what equipment do you need, and what happens to your insides by the bullet and the wound. Is there any websites which could offer me information about this? Or just some expert know how? Anything would be nice

Rowan

We are talking about 0 hospitals, 0 medics and in short: your own your own and I mean NO help at all.



posted on Mar, 21 2007 @ 06:40 PM
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There was a 30-something year study by "Marshall and Sanow (sp?)" who gathered data on kill ratios and one-shot stops of various calibers (pistol only, I believe). The data was gathered from law enforcement agencies and from coroner offices.

You might google the names above, or check out a site by Chuck Hawkes, who references Marshall and Sanow in his caliber reviews.



posted on Mar, 23 2007 @ 04:29 AM
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When a bullet enters the body, a huge vacuum is created at point of entry. This sucks vast amounts of air and whatever else is in the immediate area (clothing, food in your webbing, dirt etc.) into the wound. As this happens, the suction can cause the entry wound to pull itself shut.

The air etc that entered the wound is still there however, and pressures are still increasing as the round continues to penetrate. This creates a temporary cavity, several times bigger than the round that caused it. This cavity quickly decreases in size, leaving a slightly smaller, permanent cavity. However, this is not before the surrounding tissues have been oblitorated. In other words, the tissues and organs within several inches of the initial path of the bullet are destroyed. This cavity continues through the body, finally exiting with explosive force. This causes a very large exit wound in comparrison to the entry.

Early death is usually through bleeding out (exanguation) or massive organ failure, depending on the initial impact point.

What about all the cr@p that entered the wound, I hear you ask? Well, that all stays within the body cavity. This causes the wound to fester and become massively infected. Without surgical debridement of the wound, this infection will almost cretainly become systemic, causing massive sepsis, which will kill the victim without huge ammounts of IV antibiotics. Even then, survival is not guaranteed.


In short, while a gunshot wound may be survivable initially, without medical intervention infection will probably kill you. That's assuming that you survive the trauma of organ failure. In a survival situation, the chances of infection are greatly increased, and the access to apprpriate medical facilities are reduced.

Basically, don't get shot.



posted on Mar, 26 2007 @ 11:08 PM
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Basically, don't get shot.


Sound advice.



posted on Mar, 28 2007 @ 08:55 PM
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Surviving a gunshot wound without 3rd party medical attention? Short answer you will eventually succumb and die.

Surviving an extremity wound that did not damage an artery would be your only real shot of surviving. If you made sure not to bleed out and successfully fight off the deadly infection, you should survive.




- NSBiz



posted on Mar, 28 2007 @ 10:05 PM
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people can and do survive sever projectile wounds in various parts of the body and have done so in conflicts dating back as far as we have record, there are referred to as miracles by some and good luck by others but the do happen and there is no way to explain all of them. all you can do is use what medical training you have keep as good an attitude as you can and maybe you'll pull through, best advice is as stated above don't get shot. run, hide, know what the difference between concealment and cover is, and remember your trying to survive not be a hero. but all that is what you might want to do not, what may happen.



posted on Mar, 28 2007 @ 10:17 PM
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You know why so many people died in the American civil war? If you get shot and don't have access to advanced medical facilities, even a relatively minor gunshot would will kill you. Infection, internal bleeding, shock, loss of blood, and many other factors are generally fatal in gun shot wounds that don't get immediate medical attention. Unlike in the movies, a shot of alcohol and a Swiss army knife for digging out the bullet wont do you any good. Minor gunshot wounds killed many many people in the civil war. In a survival situation you better have quality gear, advanced training and a lot of luck.



posted on Mar, 29 2007 @ 10:56 AM
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Infection was the big killer in ye olde days. Older weapons fired slower, heavier bullets that didn't cause quite so big cavitation injuries as more modern, faster projectiles. However, due to the lack of antibiotic cover available, more people had slow, lingering deaths.

Modern weapons produce more routes for infection due to bigger pressures involved as well as greater chance of a large exit wound forming (musket and early rifle bullets tended to stay within the body, leaving only one route for infection to enter, therefore less rubbish was initially sucked into the wound).

However we also have more advanced treatment facilities combined with those all-important antibiotics. Therefore most modern deaths following GSWs tend to be as a result of organ damage or hypovolaemic shock rather than infection.

In a survival situation we may be faced with similar medical options as those present a couple of hundrd yers ago (little or no real medical facilities to speak of). Combine this with the higher infection probability with modern weapons and you have a recipy for disaster. Yes people did survive GSWs in those days, but they were the lucky ones. Getting shot with modern weapons reduces the number of lucky ones.

High infection rate + no antibiotics = systemic infection = probable death



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