Backyard Steam Engines for Electricity?

For the folks that live in a wooded area, what do you think about a steam engine to provide electricity? I have looked around and have seen some decent priced engines for sale. I also noticed todays boilers have safety built into them so you do not get blown up.

Anyone have practical experience they would like to share?

What do you think about this to provide your house with electricity?




- NSBiz

Originally posted by NSBiz
For the folks that live in a wooded area, what do you think about a steam engine to provide electricity? I have looked around and have seen some decent priced engines for sale. I also noticed todays boilers have safety built into them so you do not get blown up.

Anyone have practical experience they would like to share?

What do you think about this to provide your house with electricity?

- NSBiz

NSBiz,

Do you know much about steam plant functions...boilers...steam engines or even the generator side of such a plant??

AC power genearators require some 3000 to 3500 RPM to make 110/220 volts /60 cycles off the end of an AC type generator.

I believe the DC version does not require that much RPM to function but uses a DC generator and then runs this through an electric circuit called an inverter to change this DC Voltage into 110/220 volts AC at 60 cycles

Also a plant like this needs monitoring A large volume steam leak can be a very dangerous thing. Lubrication needs to be monitored. Some kind of automatic system needs to be in place here or a standard watch ..human watch keeping watch over this system

One needs to know ones stuff here in running a system like this and then maintaining it too.

Thanks,
Orangetom

An internal combustion engine fueled by a wood gas generator would be far more efficient use of your wood as fuel. The best use would be as a back-up charging for a battery bank when your wind-powered and solar cell chargers can't keep up with the demand on such as the dead of winter or cloudy windless days. It could also be used to provide power to an arc welder, electric dryer or other infrequent heavy electrical demand items.

Small steam engines aren't very efficient users of energy. You've got to get into the 50-100 kilowatt/hr range size generators before steam power becomes competitive with internal combustion engines efficiency wise.

What initially peeked my interest was a PM Article.

Heres a site I found that gives a little information.

This site is sort of geared towards this forum and talks a bit about steam power.

More Information

A bit more information

Great article


If anyone has some good informational links please post.



- NSBiz




[ added another link ]

[edit on 3/17/2007 by NSBiz]

NSBiz...you got me to thinking here and I dug through my olde CD photos to download this picture of an olde steam engine.

THis one has some historical significance and an intresting story to go with it.

Much of this can be found on line by googling the Mariners Museum in Newport News, Virginia.

When this event occured the Mariners Museum was not quite prepared to receive the engine from the USS Monitor so it was placed in the bottom of Dry Dock 10 at Newport News Shipbuilding with a series of nozzels to put salt water spray on it continuously until the tank was finally ready for it up at the Mariners Museum some 7 miles up the road from this shipyard.
Of course when we heard the news that the engine was in the bottom of the drydock...none of us could stand it and walked immediately into the bottom of the dock to take a look. It was hanging pretty much as you see it in this photo except that it was not in a tank but just salt water continuously spraying on it. This lasted some four or five days till the tank was finished and they moved it the seven miles up the road to its new tank.
Talk about something very weird..or anachronastic. The USS Eisenhower was in the next drydock over from this one ..and many pieces including the propellors from the USS Eisenhower were being stored in the bottom of DryDock 10. Strange seeing the olde and the new together in the same drydock. Some of you may know how huge an aircraft carrier propellor actually is.

It is a strange sensation to stand before a piece of history that olde and very American..to see it before most of the American public had access. At the same time right next to it a very modern ship by comparison.
For those of us who read and appreciate history it is very humbling.

Since that time they have also raised the gun turrent and the guns with it.

Though heavily encrusted, I tried to figure out how it worked ..even hanging upside down as it is in the photo. You can see the ribs or frames of the bottom or inner bottoms of the hull ..remember this engine is upside down in the photo. Most of it is beneath the water and is undergoing preservation as well as other artifacts raised from the sea floor.

Near as I can tell it is a one cylinder piston or reciprocating engine..all mechanical. The piston moves a linkage or a shaft to one side when at a certain amount of travel and hits a mechanical linkage or what I call a teeter lever which ports the steam to the other side of the piston and the cycle is repeated hitting the teeter on the other side to port steam back the other way.
This ship also had a propellor which was also raised from the seabed. This is a propellor in a time when much steam shipping was still on paddle
wheeled propulsion.

If you want to know more about this engine or the USS Monitor itself you can look up the site on google. Mariners Museum in Newport News, Virginia.

Anyway for you and the other readers here is the photo. Enjoy.

Thanks,
Orangetom

"AC power genearators require some 3000 to 3500 RPM to make 110/220 volts /60 cycles off the end of an AC type generator"

That is only true for a gens witn thoes settings. Almost all motors can be used as generators. Motors come in all different sizes and RPMs. Not to mention putting a gearbox on a motor is not that difficult.

The "simplest" way to do this would be to have the steam turbine rotate a permanate magnet AC generator, then rectify (make DC) the power, then feed it into an inverter (makes it AC again), or into a charge controler for a battery pack. This is called a AC-DC-AC system, it is used quite a bit in small wind turbines.

In my mind the most difficult thing would be building the boiler, and the turbine wheel.

There is actually someone working on a home built steam turbine at

www.fieldlines.com...

Originally posted by Wgatenson
"AC power genearators require some 3000 to 3500 RPM to make 110/220 volts /60 cycles off the end of an AC type generator"

That is only true for a gens witn thoes settings. Almost all motors can be used as generators. Motors come in all different sizes and RPMs. Not to mention putting a gearbox on a motor is not that difficult.

The "simplest" way to do this would be to have the steam turbine rotate a permanate magnet AC generator, then rectify (make DC) the power, then feed it into an inverter (makes it AC again), or into a charge controler for a battery pack. This is called a AC-DC-AC system, it is used quite a bit in small wind turbines.

In my mind the most difficult thing would be building the boiler, and the turbine wheel.

There is actually someone working on a home built steam turbine at

www.fieldlines.com...

This is true as my Coleman 4000 watt generator transfers the gasolinie engine force through a lubricated gear box. This is a rather noisy generator by todays standards but it is also an olde one being bought some 12 years ago. I have since bought a newer model at 7500 watts which is much quieter. Thank goodness. Some of the olde models make alot of noise by comparison to the newer designs. THe gear box on my 4000 watt really sings when running Better mufflers to today too.

Agree the boiler system can be quite difficult to build and maintain. Also in times when you must shut down...you need to know about freezing in the winter months etc etc. I have worked on boiler tube sheets and also on tube sheets in condensors and heat exchangers. Alot of work involved.

Steam in spite of its antiquity in usage compared to gasoline engines can be dangerous if you dont know its limitations and cautions. A large steam burn/leak or blow out is a terrible terrible thing.

I believe most of these set ups would be saturated steam..not that high pressures....thought a certain volume of steam at any pressure can be dangerous.

Steam powered generators while intresting ..I dont believe is for everyone not versed in some aspect of this craft. Mishandled it can be deadly.

Thanks,
Orangetom

"Steam powered generators while intresting ..I dont believe is for everyone not versed in some aspect of this craft. Mishandled it can be deadly."

That is why I am a wind and hydro guy myself, that stuff is dangerous enough without adding superheated steam into the mix!

Here are just a few sample questions I am required to answer in order to operate a marine boiler. Keep in mind this a fraction of what is needed to know.

You have to know about Steam principles, the main boilers, feedwater systems, condensate systems, fuel oil combustion and control principles, Boiler water maintenance, water chemistry, The generator turbines, governors, lubrication, drive systems...

These questions come directly from the US Coast Guards Marine engineer licensing test databank. Which isn't online so I can't post a link to more.

V00263.
If water hammer develops while opening the valve in a steam line,
which of the following actions should be taken?

A. Shut the steam valve at once, open the drain valves until all
moisture is drained, shut the drain line valves, and slowly open
the steam valve again.
B. Continue to fully open the steam valve as the drain line valves
are opened until all moisture is drained, shut the drain line
valves.
C. Stop opening the steam valve, open the drain line valves, resume
opening the steam valve slowly, and shut the drain line valves
after the steam valve is open fully.
D. Increase the speed of opening the steam valve to rapidly heat the
line to stop the water hammer.

ANS:


------------------------------------------------------------------------
V00276.
Damage to deck machinery from water hammer developing in the steam
lines can be prevented by ____________.

A. installing a steam strainer in all exhaust lines
B. opening machinery throttle valves rapidly
C. draining the steam piping before operating any machinery
D. ensuring that all drain lines are properly insulated

ANS:


------------------------------------------------------------------------
V01055.
Noise caused by condensate striking bends or fittings in a pipe line
is called _____________.

A. condensate depression
B. water hammer
C. piston slap
D. hydraulic lock

ANS:


------------------------------------------------------------------------
V01368.
An internal leak in a fuel oil heater can result in _____________.

A. water contamination of the fuel oil
B. oil contamination of the heater drains
C. carbon buildup in the heater
D. fluctuating fuel oil pressure

ANS:


------------------------------------------------------------------------
V01378.
The contaminated steam system is secured for repairs. Live steam is
supplied to the fuel oil heating system and its returns are directed
to the drain tank. Considering these circumstances, an undetected
leak in an idle fuel oil heater could eventually lead to
_____________.

A. secondary combustion
B. boiler tube failures
C. low stack gas temperatures
D. sputtering burners and possible loss of fires

ANS:


------------------------------------------------------------------------
V01568.
Oil in the contaminated drain inspection tank results from
_____________.

A. a defective relief valve on the fuel oil heater
B. improper drainage of the fuel oil heater coils
C. a leaking heating coil in a fuel oil settling tank
D. operating the fuel oil heater at excessive temperatures

ANS:


------------------------------------------------------------------------
V01728.
If oil is found in the fuel oil heating drain system when using live
steam directly to the heating coils, which of the actions listed
should be taken?

A. Secure the boiler.
B. Shift contaminated drains to proper holding area.
C. Bottom blow the boiler.
D. Shift fuel suction to the other settler.

ANS:


------------------------------------------------------------------------
V01738.
Fuel oil may be discovered in the contaminated drain inspection tank
when the _____________.

A. steam atomizer leaks
B. fuel oil heater leaks
C. DC heater leaks
D. steam operated fuel oil pump leaks

ANS:


------------------------------------------------------------------------
V01748.
A leak in the heating coils of a fuel oil heater will first show up
as _____________.

A. water in the fuel oil supply
B. oil in the drain inspection tank
C. sputtering and hissing furnace fires
D. an intense white furnace flame

Not to mention... I don't think there is a muffler that can make these things run even remotely quietly.

*edit to add*

I know that marine boilers are highly complicated as compared to standard fire in tube boilers that could be used to say... power a house. But, they are still very finicky and well... In the wrong hands are bombs. Even on a small household scale. Even if they aren't generating super heated steam these things are no joke.

[edit on 27-3-2007 by LostSailor]

I know that marine boilers are highly complicated as compared to standard fire in tube boilers that could be used to say... power a house. But, they are still very finicky and well... In the wrong hands are bombs. Even on a small household scale. Even if they aren't generating super heated steam these things are no joke.

[edit on 27-3-2007 by LostSailor]

Lost Sailor,

You have some good questions here in this test. I dont know that I can even pass it as most of the stuff I have worked on is nuclear not fuel oil boilers but I will give it a go. Great questions by the way.


V00263 A
V00276 C
V01055 B
V01368 A I am assuming here that steam is used to pre heat the fuel oil
in a tank or heat exchanger type unit before sending it to the
firebox.

V01378 D
V01568 C
V01728 D
V01738 B
V01748 C

And yes..olde man...quite correct. Running a boiler system of any type is no joke. I do know that is some accidents both on ships and in the olde steam locomotive days..they had to remove the people in tarps or canvas to keep their bodies from falling apart after they had been steam pressure cooked. It is no joke.

Most of the stuff Ive worked on is Saturated steam..not super heat. Superheat ..really dangerous if you dont know what you are doing or specific material specifications to use or not to use. EVen Saturated steam you must use the correct specification materials..or big time danger. More so with superheat.

Thanks for your post.
Orangetom