miracles and prayer

Hi madness,

if there were miracles, answered prayers, and all of that, wouldn't it become an issue of proof?

You may find this case of some interest:

I read about it for the first time last night in a blog post by Joy (she was apparently in the room. See post: here ) over at telicthoughts.com...

From Joy's blog entry ("here" link above)
If legality counts, no one on this forum or anywhere else in the US can claim as a matter of fact that Miracles don't happen. Because it has been legally established that they do. I already believed, because I was there, but there you have it.
[...]

A teaser - the 'angel' (what I call it, though I suppose someone else might consider it a devil) who spoke to a group of people in a hospital room in New Orleans in May of 1992 (and included a 72-year old priest from Ireland who had already called in Vatican investigators the week before) didn't speak any human language that anyone in the room recognized. And in the room were people who spoke or could recognize Asian languages from tribal Philippines to Sanskrit, Punjabi, Mandarin, Japanese and Korean, Greek, Aramaic, Hebrew, all the Romances, Russian and several native languages north and south. Were it an actual human language, it probably would have tickled someone's grasp of roots.
But everyone in the room understood what was said. This is exactly the opposite of glossolalia in its usual forms, where some individual speaks a human language they never heard or knew. This was more the "Language of Languages," something that underlies the very capacity FOR language. Understood by all. Extremely strange, but then again, not so strange. As if there is a semantic hardwiring in human brains that underlies all human languages, and which all humans would innately understand AS language. Does that make sense?

I've not had much time to confirm this. Seems that the Vatican was invloved so I'm exploring that route now. If I strike out there I figure a search of the New Orleans courts' cases might turn up something. Any ideas or info let me know.

Has anybody else heard of this?

rren, homosexuality was at one time legally established as a psychogical disorder and in some states lacking a religion was legally established to be the same thing

and again, the case of personal experience is never a strong one. i've personally experienced a waking nightmare of being dissected by aliens, i know it didn't happen because later in that month i experienced a similar waking nightmare of being mauled by hello kitty (sleep disorders run in the family).

the brain is really good at fooling itself because it's good for survival. if you see a shadow you might think it's a burglar, you may get freaked out and add a little stress but if it were a burglar you'd be a step closer to survivng the ecnounter.

we don't experience what's really there, we see an insanely accurate recreation of our surroundings, but sometimes that mechanism turns against us.

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
rren, homosexuality was at one time legally established as a psychogical disorder and in some states lacking a religion was legally established to be the same thing

Well I'm not sure what one thing has to do with the other; this was allegedly 1992.

and again, the case of personal experience is never a strong one. i've personally experienced a waking nightmare of being dissected by aliens, i know it didn't happen because later in that month i experienced a similar waking nightmare of being mauled by hello kitty (sleep disorders run in the family).

Off topic: Sorry to hear of that, things better now or does this still happen?

we don't experience what's really there, we see an insanely accurate recreation of our surroundings, but sometimes that mechanism turns against us.

This happened to a group of people most of them being linquists. What exactly are you looking for? Well homosexuality use to be illegal and you've had waking dreams... 'nuff said.

(edit)I asked Joy if there was anything online we could read on this occurance/court case but she said there's (most likely) not. So I guess all we have is her version of events to go on for now.



[edit on 27-3-2007 by Rren]

Originally posted by Rren

This happened to a group of people most of them being linquists. What exactly are you looking for? Well homosexuality use to be illegal and you've had waking dreams... 'nuff said.

Is there any other reports of this event other than the super scientific 'Joy's blogspot' (which I take with the usual pinch of salt)????

Reading someones third rate effort of what they want you to believe is not what I would call fact based or even a reason to suggest that it is true.



G

Originally posted by shihulud
Is there any other reports of this event other than the super scientific 'Joy's blogspot' (which I take with the usual pinch of salt)????

Looks like all we've got to go on is her story for the time being. Nobody claimed anything was "super scientific" either. FWIW Joy's a nuclear physicist (among other things.)

Reading someones third rate effort of what they want you to believe is not what I would call fact based or even a reason to suggest that it is true.



G

I agree. My point, to madness, wasn't that he was rejecting Joy's story because of a lack of conformation. He already rejected it (without that) based on some weak reasoning imo.

Regards

(edit)Well that's my online time for today. I will be out of town (and offline) for a week-or-so, and possibly longer depending on circumstances. Don't you guys go crying yourselves to sleep... I shall return.

Enjoy the rest of your spring break madness

See ya when I see ya,
~Rob

[edit on 27-3-2007 by Rren]

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
now, if you are religious, don't claim that if the results were positive you wouldn't have touted them as proof of god's existence

lol. no way would i have used those results.

personally, i dont believe that praying for another person works.

i think whatever will happen is set to happen, and it shall be.

if something fortunate happens, it wasnt from people prayng, you were meant to be fortunate at that moment. if you were unfortunate, that was your destiny by God's ultimate plan. That plan is what some call Fate. Or, "whats my fate in life"

but there will never be anything to ever prove God's existance scientifically, because if it were to happen, free will would exit stage and everyone would believe. there would be little to no non-believers, and the reprocussions of definite PROOF of a God and thus accountability after you die which will be even better or worse than the current reality would hit everybody the way it hits faithful believers. there would be a massive shift into a better, moral living, and Utopia would eventually result.

That is heaven, not earth. So free will stops that from happening. And if you had this scientific proof, well, it would take the curtain away from God and thus take away Beelzebub's main tool, deception.

As humans we can be humbled by our weak mindedness or lack of intelligence or ability in comparison to some things we think of that supernatural beings may have. With just this much goodness and faithfulness, with just this much current adherance to the truth and light, one is already much more vulnerable to temptations and evil deeds. To put it simply, the closer you get to God, Righteousness, Nirvana, whatever, the more open you become to temptations and evil force. You also become a much bigger "blip on the radar screen" of evil because you are closing in on not only the truth, but eventual ascension after death. They want your soul, and this is not good news to them. So they try harder. I've experienced it.

So to imagine the strength one's soul would need when just in the non-physical world soto speak, the afterlife, is crazy, especially compared to how much weaker we are now in the physical compared to those beings that are not physical. This leads me to believe that our souls enter human bodies on purpose for the explicit reason to 'brazen' ourselves like swords in the furnace. Then, once we've lived a lifetime of emotions, conquering or not conquering, we face the last ultimate physical experience, death. From there, a person's soul had better be ready for the afterlife, and what they'll experience there, because if they aren't, it would obviously have shown during their stay on planet Earth in a body made of physical flesh, and they would've done things while "alive" that were terribly sinful, and did not gain repentance for. And so, they'd be already labeled soto speak as not ready or capable of handling the Kingdom of God.

Heres a simple analogy:

A bunch of college guys want to enter a fraternity. To get in, they have to stand there blindfolded so they cannot see, and arent allowed to move either, while the guy performing the entry ritual hands each of them a cup filled with liquid.

They cannot smell the liquid, or look, or anything of the sort. They are told the liquid is pigs blood, and they have never been told that it actually wasn't pigs blood by anyone in-the-know, because if they did, they'd always pass entry and never chicken out.

And so, they have to drink the cup of pigs blood to get into the fraternity. Some chicken out, and say yeah right screw that, and are removed. The others who stay, regrettably knock back the cups of pigs blood into their mouths, to perform the entry ritual so they can get into the fraternity.

Only when they do, it isn't pigs blood at all, it's a lovely mixed drink of liquors and fruit juices and such. They cheer in relief and excitement, the blind folds are taken off, and everyone gets wasted.

The guys that chickened out, they were escorted out before anything actually happened, and werent allowed to see or hear anything afterward. They never knew it wasnt pigs blood, were never told, and will never know, ever.

Well i'll sure like to know how white cells impart memory to other cells and analyse dead cells to formulate destructive capabilities unique to specific virii, bacteria etc.

o_0

Perhaps I can measure this? Or should I realise we will understand this in time also?

Originally posted by Rren
This happened to a group of people most of them being linquists. What exactly are you looking for? Well homosexuality use to be illegal

the first part of your external source said that for legal matters miracles exist

and you've had waking dreams... 'nuff said.

i've had waking dreams, these people experienced something, the corrolation is that the mind's interpretation of the world is flawed.

cogito ergo sum

I asked Joy if there was anything online we could read on this occurance/court case but she said there's (most likely) not. So I guess all we have is her version of events to go on for now.

again, personal experience