This just in... from Iraq

Originally posted by Garon

Originally posted by lilblam

But you know, the son made a decision to go to this bullsh1t fake war on a fake threat for a fake reason fighting for a FAKE (illegally imposed) government.... what did he expect? Oh he was a patriot and believed everything the government told him you say? Well wishfull thinking will get you EVERY TIME. All people of any religion are believers... they are ALL wishful thinkers who belief someone on their word just cuz they're afraid that the person may be right. Shame on them

That will get ya EVERY TIME! These are words of wisdom, remember them!

A letter posted by Michael Moore at his website michaelmoore.com. I'm posting the entire letter here rather than linking as I think its best to read it within the context of this thread....its very interesting.

Dear Mr. Moore:

I�m writing this without knowing if it�ll ever get to you. I�m writing it not knowing why, or knowing what I�m going to say. I�m writing it not knowing if I�ll ever finish it or mail it. I�m writing it from the trenches of a war (that�s still going on,) not knowing why I�m here or when I�m leaving. I�ve toppled statues and vandalized portraits, while wearing an American flag on my sleeve, and struggling to learn how to understand.

I was in Vindanza, Italy when I heard your Oscar acceptance speech. It was the day before I boarded a plane and experienced a �combat landing� in uncharted territory in northern Iraq. It was such a surreal feeling�the only light came from a red bulb�we sat shoulder to shoulder in silence. We were told to expect heavy artillery/chemical attacks. I can�t say I know what was on the minds of those men packed next to me, but I assume it was thoughts of family and religion. But me, a single 20 year old, I was thinking about what you had said. I joined the army as soon as I was eligible � turned down a writing scholarship to a state university, eager to serve my country, ready to die for the ideals I fell in love with. Two years later I found myself moments away from a landing onto a pitch black airstrip, ready to charge into a country I didn't believe I belonged in, with your words repeating in my head.

My time in Iraq has always involved finding things to convince myself that I can be proud of my actions; that I was a part of something just. But no matter what pro-war argument I came up with, I pictured my smirking commander-in-chief, thinking he was fooling a nation. I discovered that the result of the war and the actions of G.W. cannot be treated as the same issue. Bush accidentally did a good thing for the Iraqi people. After the fact he's starting to claim humanitarian intentions for going to war - obviously bull#. But he realizes that that is the only positive outcome. I could explain what I've seen here; a people forced into poverty & ignorance � but I'll spare you. I try not to think about the ultimate future of this place. I'm sure we'll cause them to fall victim to Banana Republic and Joe Millionaire, with a puppet president and monopolized oil industry. But there will be plenty of time in the future to worry about those things.

I can't say I know what I believe. I am willing to accept that my opinions are a result of a given subconscious, not sufficient knowledge. Do I support care for the low income class because I truly understand the system, or because I've personified inadequacies and identified with those who experience struggle. Does a conservative oppose gay rights because he genuinely understands the issue or because he's scared to face deeper levels of humanity? What if you could be given a reason for everything you believe, but the reason is unrelated to the topic � the result of a life and a psyche? Will we believe those things the same way we used to? I call myself a liberal because I've been moved to tears by the words of Paul Wellstone, scenes in "The Awful Truth," the funeral of Matthew Sheppard, and the homeless people in the city I once lived in. It's not what I know, it's what I felt. It's dangerous to rely on emotions to guide your moral compass � but it�s the only way to be honest. I understand everything I believe may be wrong; that I believe for a reason, and that reason may not be reality. I'm not sure what I'm trying to say. Maybe just that I can't look at this war politically. I can only look at it as an experience that has taught me that life is dictated by seconds and inches; one that has caused me to face death and loss and fear. And at its core, stripped of the WMD's and no-contest contracts, it's been about one thing: serving my country. The most difficult thing has been learning how to be proud of that. This country, I'm serving,�is it America? Has it ever been? It's always bothered me that, despite the American philosophy, it became NECESSARY for a civil right movement, it became NECESSARY to form the ACLU. I've simultaneously battled Saddam loyalists and these questions. Kind of an odd setting for suddenly doubting my patriotism. But while my fight with those trying to kill my friends & I is far from ending, the fight within myself has ended.

I found what I've been fighting for. It's been you, all along. I hated you on a plane ride in the dark with shaking hands. But you've been the roof of my loyalty, my bravery, and my dignity. Mr. Moore, you are America. This isn't a "I'm a hip liberal & I'll be cool if I get an autographed copy of Stupid White Men" letter. I've faced every weapon, from SCUDs to swords, and I've had to face why. And you've been the answer. I'm serving a country in which you live; where you're allowed to speak and PEOPLE LISTEN; where you're allowed to write and PEOPLE READ. What a beautiful country � every injustice has a prosecutor � every struggle has a defender. We are still a country being born. Compassion will never lose to conservatism�the country could be ruled by Jerry Falwell and Dick Cheney � but there will always be tears, as long as there is injustice and oppression and greed and hypocrisy. And there will always be you, the people you've taught, the lives you've influenced. You reminded me that America exists, and I suppose this letter is meant to thank you for that. I can't explain the pride you've instilled in me, and the comfort you've given me, to know that if I find myself fallen on the battlefield, I gave my life serving something I loved and truly believed in.

Sincerely,
Mike Prysner

Thanks for sharing that with us, Garon. It's a profound and powerful letter. I'm sure that soldier will be an author one of these days - if he makes it home alive.

Originally posted by ZeddicusZulZorander

Originally posted by EastCoastKid
I served in the Gulf war. You shouldn't make ridiculous assumptions, armchair warrior.

Hahaha...then you turn and make the same ridiculous assumption. Yeah, I took a tour of the Gulf myself....
Twice.

Good for you. Though, I am unmoved and unimpressed by your lack of sense. You should've learned something from it other than thinking what your leaders tell you to think.

Originally posted by Affirmative Reaction

Originally posted by DiRtYDeViL

Originally posted by EastCoastKid
However, if I have offended anyone who has family members or friends over there, I sincerely apologize. You and your soldiers, sailors and airmen have my prayers and deepest sympathies.

Wow that's nice I look at them as war criminals. They don�t have to fight. If they didn�t fight the old bastard republicans couldn�t invade countries for questionable reasons. The Nazis at nuremberg couldn�t use the excuse they where following orders neither should the soldiers.

You are an insolent little crack head who needs her azz kicked...I would really love to meet you in person some day to administer it in the name of every soldier, sailor, airman and marine who has ever fought for their country. Even extreme lefties look at your garbage posts and cringe...you are definatly pathetic

I don't cringe.
They made the choice to join the army.
They made the choice to follow orders.
They made the choice to drop bombs.
They made the choice to shoot people.
They're just as bad as the terrorists in my opinion.
I have no respect for modern military.


EDIT: Oh and before someone pulls out the "If it weren't for your country's army you'd be speaking German" #, that's different, a LOT of the people who served in that war were conscripts, not volunteers.


[Edited on 24-12-2003 by �any]

[Edited on 19-09-2003 by EastCoastKid]

What is this post about?



I just dont get it..

Is this real..

Was this somebody that you knew..

Or wtf?

Originally posted by Affirmative Reaction

Originally posted by DiRtYDeViL

Originally posted by EastCoastKid
However, if I have offended anyone who has family members or friends over there, I sincerely apologize. You and your soldiers, sailors and airmen have my prayers and deepest sympathies.

Wow that's nice I look at them as war criminals. They don�t have to fight. If they didn�t fight the old bastard republicans couldn�t invade countries for questionable reasons. The Nazis at nuremberg couldn�t use the excuse they where following orders neither should the soldiers.

You are an insolent little crack head who needs her azz kicked...I would really love to meet you in person some day to administer it in the name of every soldier, sailor, airman and marine who has ever fought for their country. Even extreme lefties look at your garbage posts and cringe...you are definatly pathetic

Yawn. More blathering nonsense. But keep it up, you amuse me to no end.

The Sands of Christmas
by Michael Marks
December 2003

I had no Christmas spirit when I breathed a weary sigh,
and looked across the table where the bills were piled too high.
The laundry wasn�t finished and the car I had to fix,
My stocks were down another point, the Dolphins lost by six.

And so with only minutes till my son got home from school
I gave up on the drudgery and grabbed a wooden stool.
The burdens that I carried were about all I could take,
and so I flipped the TV on to catch a little break.

I came upon a desert scene in shades of tan and rust,
No snowflakes hung upon the wind, just clouds of swirling dust.
And where the reindeer should have stood before a laden sleigh,
eight hummers ran a column right behind an M1A.

A group of boys walked past the tank, not one was past his teens,
Their eyes were hard as polished flint, their faces drawn and lean.
They walked the street in armor with their rifles shouldered tight,
their dearest wish for Christmas, just to have a silent night.

Other soldiers gathered, hunkered down against the wind,
To share a scrap of mail and dreams of going home again.
There wasn�t much at all to put their lonely hearts at ease,
They had no Christmas turkey, just a pack of MREs.

They didn't have a garland or a stocking I could see,
They didn't need an ornament-- they lacked a Christmas Tree.
They didn�t have a present even though it was tradition,
the only boxes I could see were labled "ammunition".

I felt a little tug and found my son now by my side,
He asked me what it was I feared, and why it was I cried.
I swept him up into my arms and held him oh so near
and kissed him on the forehead as I whispered in his ear.

There�s nothing wrong my little son, for safe we sleep tonight,
our heroes stand on foreign land to give us all the right,
to worry on the things in life that mean nothing at all,
instead of wondering if we will be the next to fall.

He looked at me as children do and said its always right,
to thank the ones who help us and perhaps that we should write.
And so we pushed aside the bills and sat to draft a note,
to thank the many far from home, and this is what we wrote,

God bless you all and keep you safe, and speed your way back home.
Remember that we love you so, and that you�re not alone.
The gift you give you share with all, a present every day,
You give the gift of liberty and that we can�t repay.

A MILITARY CHRISTMAS
by Major Van Harl USAF Ret.



Oops almost forgot, here is source;

www.globalspecops.com...

[Edited on 24-12-2003 by ADVISOR]

Originally posted by FULCRUM
What is this post about?

I just dont get it..

Is this real..

Was this somebody that you knew..

Or wtf?

First thing this morning I learned that 3 more of our troops had been killed. First came the tears for my fallen comrades. Then came the anger. I was just trying to say that I share in the grief of all of those who have lost loved ones in this abominable occupation. And to point out that they are fighting not for liberty, but for Bechtel and Halliburton and all of the military-industrial, oil interests. As I said on the first page, I sincerely apologize if anyone took it wrong and was offended.

As American I would be pissed by now. Your soldiers just fought a war for a bunch of covards. Why? They still adore Saddam as their leader in front of the TV camera and when the cam is turned off they tell you they hate him.
Still in fear they could be blamed for saying "f00k you" to Saddam in front of a camera, covards all over.

Leave that country, they don't deserve the peace.

(and I was a supporter of freeing Iraq from Hussein but what the Iraqis do at the moment is just plain stupid)


But what makes me angry, the soldiers fighting the war are mostly from poor families. The army was a good opportunity to earn money for their families and now the poor of a country are fighting the war of the rich. Thaaaat's great.

But I am happy to see that the US citizens here seem to think the same way about this war now(or since ever).

Originally posted by Affirmative Reaction

You are an insolent little crack head who needs her azz kicked...I would really love to meet you in person some day to administer it in the name of every soldier, sailor, airman and marine who has ever fought for their country. Even extreme lefties look at your garbage posts and cringe...you are definatly pathetic

Your a spook you probally allready know where I live.

Originally posted by DiRtYDeViL

Originally posted by Affirmative Reaction

You are an insolent little crack head who needs her azz kicked...I would really love to meet you in person some day to administer it in the name of every soldier, sailor, airman and marine who has ever fought for their country. Even extreme lefties look at your garbage posts and cringe...you are definatly pathetic

Your a spook you probally allready know where I live.

I doubt it. Spooks are usually highly intelligent.

Originally posted by DiRtYDeViL
Your a spook you probally allready know where I live.

Then since you are convinced that I am, I guess you are scared #less, eh?

Originally posted by EastCoastKid
I doubt it. Spooks are usually highly intelligent.

Wouldn't take but a few IQ points to surpass your intelligence..

And oh, BTW, Don't be calling us your comrades in arms...comrades in arms don't destroy each others morale by cutting down each other and their leadership in times of war. You're nothing but a whining whimp...I seriously doubt you ever served...

Originally posted by Affirmative Reaction

Originally posted by EastCoastKid
I doubt it. Spooks are usually highly intelligent.

Wouldn't take but a few IQ points to surpass your intelligence..

And oh, BTW, Don't be calling us your comrades in arms...comrades in arms don't destroy each others morale by cutting down each other and their leadership in times of war. You're nothing but a whining whimp...I seriously doubt you ever served...

I hate to break it to ya, but I could care less what you think. You are trained only to think as you are told. Pretty sad. But hey, you probably make a good soldier. Now, get off your knees Neo Conned, and go wipe the bodily fluid off your mouth. You're so full of it you stink.

Originally posted by ADVISOR
The Sands of Christmas
by Michael Marks
December 2003

I had no Christmas spirit when I breathed a weary sigh,
and looked across the table where the bills were piled too high.
The laundry wasn�t finished and the car I had to fix,
My stocks were down another point, the Dolphins lost by six.

And so with only minutes till my son got home from school
I gave up on the drudgery and grabbed a wooden stool.
The burdens that I carried were about all I could take,
and so I flipped the TV on to catch a little break.

I came upon a desert scene in shades of tan and rust,
No snowflakes hung upon the wind, just clouds of swirling dust.
And where the reindeer should have stood before a laden sleigh,
eight hummers ran a column right behind an M1A.

A group of boys walked past the tank, not one was past his teens,
Their eyes were hard as polished flint, their faces drawn and lean.
They walked the street in armor with their rifles shouldered tight,
their dearest wish for Christmas, just to have a silent night.

Other soldiers gathered, hunkered down against the wind,
To share a scrap of mail and dreams of going home again.
There wasn�t much at all to put their lonely hearts at ease,
They had no Christmas turkey, just a pack of MREs.

They didn't have a garland or a stocking I could see,
They didn't need an ornament-- they lacked a Christmas Tree.
They didn�t have a present even though it was tradition,
the only boxes I could see were labled "ammunition".

I felt a little tug and found my son now by my side,
He asked me what it was I feared, and why it was I cried.
I swept him up into my arms and held him oh so near
and kissed him on the forehead as I whispered in his ear.

There�s nothing wrong my little son, for safe we sleep tonight,
our heroes stand on foreign land to give us all the right,
to worry on the things in life that mean nothing at all,
instead of wondering if we will be the next to fall.

He looked at me as children do and said its always right,
to thank the ones who help us and perhaps that we should write.
And so we pushed aside the bills and sat to draft a note,
to thank the many far from home, and this is what we wrote,

God bless you all and keep you safe, and speed your way back home.
Remember that we love you so, and that you�re not alone.
The gift you give you share with all, a present every day,
You give the gift of liberty and that we can�t repay.

A MILITARY CHRISTMAS
by Major Van Harl USAF Ret.

Oops almost forgot, here is source;

www.globalspecops.com...

[Edited on 24-12-2003 by ADVISOR]

Beautiful, Advisor. Thank you for sharing.

Originally posted by Affirmative Reaction
And oh, BTW, Don't be calling us your comrades in arms...comrades in arms don't destroy each others morale by cutting down each other and their leadership in times of war. You're nothing but a whining whimp...I seriously doubt you ever served...

Remeber the drill instructor from Full Metal Jacket?
www.moviesounds.com...

- you might not appreciate that option but it is possible: To love your country, support the people in the army and pray for them BUT think that the war was just a big bullshi-t - as a second option of a bullshi-t government.

Originally posted by EastCoastKid

I hate to break it to ya, but I could care less what you think. You are trained only to think as you are told. Pretty sad. But hey, you probably make a good soldier. Now, get off your knees Neo Conned, and go wipe the bodily fluid off your mouth. You're so full of it you stink.

Well, that just proves my point that you have never served in the Us military. Anyone who has can tell you that the military doesn't want mindless drones as you seem to think. They want intelligent individuals who can make decisions based on what is right. We are not trained to follow the orders of those appointed over us regardless of what they are, as you and your alter ego dirtydevil seem to think...we are required to follow "lawful orders", and must make that determination for ourselves. For example, "Take out that machine gun nest that is cutting our guys down" is a lawful order, while, "fire into that unarmed crowd so there are no survivors to attack us later" is not, and anyone who would follow such an order is a moron. If you had served, you would know all this.

So, continue to slather in your fetid lies...you are no solder, were no soldier...you are a fraud...

Originally posted by Affirmative Reaction

Originally posted by EastCoastKid

I hate to break it to ya, but I could care less what you think. You are trained only to think as you are told. Pretty sad. But hey, you probably make a good soldier. Now, get off your knees Neo Conned, and go wipe the bodily fluid off your mouth. You're so full of it you stink.

Well, that just proves my point that you have never served in the Us military. Anyone who has can tell you that the military doesn't want mindless drones as you seem to think. They want intelligent individuals who can make decisions based on what is right. We are not trained to follow the orders of those appointed over us regardless of what they are, as you and your alter ego dirtydevil seem to think...we are required to follow "lawful orders", and must make that determination for ourselves. For example, "Take out that machine gun nest that is cutting our guys down" is a lawful order, while, "fire into that unarmed crowd so there are no survivors to attack us later" is not, and anyone who would follow such an order is a moron. If you had served, you would know all this.

So, continue to slather in your fetid lies...you are no solder, were no soldier...you are a fraud...

Hey DirtyDevil,
AR just proved my point. If he were actually anything more than an uninformed, brainwashed, pimply-faced little adolescent, he wouldn't question my service - because he'd know where I served, when I served and for how long. (That is if he were a spook as you suggested.)

Affirmative Reaction, you need to turn off the TV, start thinking for yourself and get a life. That tempers the anger you obviously possess. (I mean, all I've ever heard from you is incessant ranting, like a pissed off child.) You don't even grasp the fact that you've never once offered an original thought or opinion. Just programmed rhetoric. So, you're really over your head here.

And you know, I take it as a compliment that you can't stay off my threads. You're obsessed with me, obviously. So, keep on comin'. I look forward to it. Somebody's gotta take your silly azz back to school.

Originally posted by EastCoastKid

Hey DirtyDevil,
AR just proved my point. If he were actually anything more than an uninformed, brainwashed, pimply-faced little adolescent, he wouldn't question my service - because he'd know where I served, when I served and for how long. (That is if he were a spook as you suggested.)

Affirmative Reaction, you need to turn off the TV, start thinking for yourself and get a life. That tempers the anger you obviously possess. (I mean, all I've ever heard from you is incessant ranting, like a pissed off child.) You don't even grasp the fact that you've never once offered an original thought or opinion. Just programmed rhetoric. So, you're really over your head here.

And you know, I take it as a compliment that you can't stay off my threads. You're obsessed with me, obviously. So, keep on comin'. I look forward to it. Somebody's gotta take your silly azz back to school.

No obsession, just enjoying watching you make an utter fool of yourself. Pulled another "Palestinian" there, as I like to call it...transferring your attributes to me. You're an uninformed moron spouting what little bits of dung the radical left has fed you. Not a single original thought has passed your keyboard here...everything comes from fellow crackheads like Michael Moore, and wacko sites like rense.com.

The reason I don't have any information on your claimed service is that I'm not the "spook" you seem to think I am. Shows what an utter moron you actually are, but hey, nice way to backtrack and come off your previous claims to try to cover your tracks. Sorry, those here who have/are serving their country can see you for exactly what you are...a total fraud...And you can think whatever you wish of me, I care not. It's a free country, no matter what you and your socialist bed mates would like to make it. I just really hope you slip some day and spew your anti everything rhetoric in front of the wrong person. then you'll see what a real American feels about his country...

Oh, and I�ve been out of school for years�there�s not a THING the YOU could teach me, other than how to look like a dumbazz on a regular basis�you�re a PRO at that�.

Go open your presents.