Are you ONE of the 144,000?

Revelation does appear to be unfolding before our eyes... have you ever considered it is happening because people are allowing it to happen, manifesting it because they believe it?

Yes, I think that alll the time. It's up setting to watch people sit back and let our governments take away every right we have. Pushing this id upon us. It is written though keep that in mind.

Hi Shar and I sincerely thank you for your info before.

Your welcome.

Originally posted by NJE777
Revelation contradicts the Christ's teachings about loving one another, imo.

Not really, its not Gods fault that man fell from grace, so its not Gods fault that we end up tearing ourselves apart eventually and damage the planet until it becomes uninhabitable. Its also not Gods fault that men have fought wars, or any of the other things you listed above, again these are all a result of mans sin, these things do not come from God.

The wages of sin is death…

Originally posted by Shar
To me these chips are bringing us closer and closer to this time period. When they make it mandatory to have this chip in your hand or you can't eat then you know were there. Again, the Bible was written thousands of years ago and it's unfolding right in front of our eyes.

The mark does not necessarily have to be in a chip, or physically implanted on your body. All that it does have to do is restrict your ability to survive and in some way relate to your hand or forehead. Personally, I think the Real ID, that is being pushed in the US and other countries, fits the bill unlike anything else in history. If you refuse the Real ID then you become a non-person to the federal government, which means you cannot pay taxes, so you cannot hold a job, you will be unable to access a bank account, or cash a pay check without that ID. It also contains either your retina scan or your finger prints (hand of forehead). Historically, the term used for Mark in Revelations simply means a sign of allegiance or compliance to a power, not a physical mark. Since the Beasts are Empires, it’s a sign of allegiance to the final world Empire.

Originally posted by Shar

Yes, I think that alll the time. It's up setting to watch people sit back and let our governments take away every right we have. Pushing this id upon us. It is written though keep that in mind.

Your sentence just vibrated through me... 'it is written though'

I read the gospel of Adam and Eve last week. Its not in the bible. It is in the lost books or excluded texts section. When I read it, I really did laugh cos it depicted Adam and Eve totally niave and without knowledge. They were scared of the dark because they had never known 'night time'. So they are really worried and god speaks to them and tells them what it is and reassures them that the sun will come up and it is only night time.

My point is that that 'if they knew nothing' and were told what things were and what life is etc, then perhaps we are all just muppets? With no power in the movie? Perhaps its all predestined?

Perhaps its just me, but I am an activist. I never give up. There are so many people who just accept this. And I have a real issue with accepting it, on the grounds of 'killing off' and then I question:

'is Revelation the default path?

Like can we at some point, change the path?

Originally posted by defcon5


Not really, its not Gods fault that man fell from grace, so its not Gods fault that we end up tearing ourselves apart eventually and damage the planet until it becomes uninhabitable. Its also not Gods fault that men have fought wars, or any of the other things you listed above, again these are all a result of mans sin, these things do not come from God.

The wages of sin is death…

Perhaps I misunderstand this, but when Adam & Eve ate from the tree of knowledge, it is written that they would come to know what good and evil is, like gods?

How would god/s know what good and evil was if they hadn't have experienced it themselves?

How did god obtain the knowledge?

Perhaps this cycle is the junior school of good and evil?

Does Revelation depict the end of junior school?

Either way, I find it difficult to cope and accept the world as it is today, the suffering etc and the future. Revelation signals an end to suffering. It is nice to believe. I think within all of us, we hope for a world without suffering, but the chemo treatment is extreme.

And I am so glad the other poster brought up chemo. Some people do overcome cancer using alternate remedies. I am on the alternate spiritual path now.

Personally, I believe that it will be held off as long as possible. Just like when the angels went into Sodom and Gomorra. There was talk of keeping the place with Abraham. Then when the angels actually came down to the area and checked the place out and realize how bad it was they removed the only good people and destroyed the rest. But remember how bad this place was first. The people were so bad that they even wanted these two strangers who was visited Lot. They were going to rape these angels. So you have to know this place was bad.


Genesis: chapter 18
20 And the LORD said, Because the cry of Sodom and Gomorrah is great, and because their sin is very grievous;

21 I will go down now, and see whether they have done altogether according to the cry of it, which is come unto me; and if not, I will know.

22 And the men turned their faces from thence, and went toward Sodom: but Abraham stood yet before the LORD.

23 And Abraham drew near, and said, Wilt thou also destroy the righteous with the wicked?

24 Peradventure there be fifty righteous within the city: wilt thou also destroy and not spare the place for the fifty righteous that are therein? ....


26 And the LORD said, If I find in Sodom fifty righteous within the city, then I will spare all the place for their sakes. .......

32 And he said, Oh let not the LORD be angry, and I will speak yet but this once: Peradventure ten shall be found there. And he said, I will not destroy it for ten's sake. ........

So you see how bad this place was not even ten could be found there that was good.

Chapter 19

..... 5 And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the men which came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may know them.
6And Lot went out at the door unto them, and shut the door after him,

7 And said, I pray you, brethren, do not so wickedly.

8 Behold now, I have two daughters which have not known man; let me, I pray you, bring them out unto you, and do ye to them as is good in your eyes: only unto these men do nothing; for therefore came they under the shadow of my roof.

See he was even going to give his daughters to these men to protect his new guest, who were angels, he didn't know this though. The Angels did not like this so they blinded the men at the door and preceeded with the destruction of this place.

11 And they smote the men that were at the door of the house with blindness, both small and great: so that they wearied themselves to find the door......

So yeah I believe it will be held off as long as possible.





[edit on 16-3-2007 by Shar]

defcon5
The mark does not necessarily have to be in a chip, or physically implanted on your body. All that it does have to do is restrict your ability to survive and in some way relate to your hand or forehead. Personally, I think the Real ID, that is being pushed in the US and other countries, fits the bill unlike anything else in history. If you refuse the Real ID then you become a non-person to the federal government, which means you cannot pay taxes, so you cannot hold a job, you will be unable to access a bank account, or cash a pay check without that ID. It also contains either your retina scan or your finger prints (hand of forehead). Historically, the term used for Mark in Revelations simply means a sign of allegiance or compliance to a power, not a physical mark. Since the Beasts are Empires, it’s a sign of allegiance to the final world Empire.

very good. Just remember each step the government takes brings it all closer to what was written. Also, its two parts to it. Don't forget the worshipping part.

Revelation 14

....9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,

10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: ......


[edit on 16-3-2007 by Shar]

Originally posted by NJE777
Perhaps I misunderstand this, but when Adam & Eve ate from the tree of knowledge, it is written that they would come to know what good and evil is, like gods?

Eating of the tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil caused man to live under the law rather then under the grace of God. Since man cannot be as perfect as God, once they were under the law they became sinful. So the devil tricked them by telling them a half truth, yes they would be like God in falling under the law, but since they are not God and cannot be as perfect as he is they also became subject to sin. At that moment the world became altered and man had to be removed from the perfect situation in which God had originally placed him and his immortality had to be removed from him. So we fall subject to hard times and eventually death due to something that is our own fault.

Originally posted by NJE777
How would god/s know what good and evil was if they hadn't have experienced it themselves?

The best way I can think to answer that is that anything that falls short of the perfection of God is sinful. In order for something that is less perfect then God to be allowed in the presence of God it must be under Grace. So sin exists simply because God exists, not because God made it.

Originally posted by NJE777
How did god obtain the knowledge?

I am not sure what knowledge you mean, if you mean of Good and Evil, then see the above answer.

Originally posted by NJE777
Perhaps this cycle is the junior school of good and evil?

Does Revelation depict the end of junior school?

I am not sure what you mean here either. If you are talking about the world being ended and brought back before, then I would have to say it’s a possibility. The Bible does not preclude there from having been something on this earth before creation, a previous world that had already been destroyed. There are even some Bible passages that seem to support this theory, and there are similar beliefs in other ancient religions that seem to indicate that this has happened. If you look at the studies of mass extinctions there are huge bottle necks in the population of the world where it’s almost like the world existed and then was destroyed and recreated. If you look at the fossil record you will find this to hold true there as well. For good example there are several missing links, not just the one to modern man, almost like one whole race was wiped out to be replaced by another genetically unrelated one.

A very similar school of thought is called Catastrophism…
Google it up, youll find it interesting.

Originally posted by Shar very good. Just remember each step the government takes brings it all closer to what was written.

They don’t have to take any steps on that, it goes into effect in May of 2008 unless people start fighting it.

Originally posted by NJE777
How many believe that they are one of the 144, 000 ?

I think that number is bogus. Whoever wrote it to begin with .... a little off his beam...

Originally posted by Shar
After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues,

That's better.

There have been billions upon billions upon billions of people on this planet. If God was only letting 144,000 'make it', then I don't think He'd be the kind of God that I'd want to worship for all eternity anyways.

Originally posted by ChrisJr03
Besides, how could God let us all go there...

Because he loves us enough to give us the choice whether to reject him or know him. GOD doesn't want robots. He wants those who trust him and he can trust based on their own will. Satan on the other hand loves robots. Just look at all his military, armies, rituals, religions, governments, heh even the majority of the population in general.

Originally posted by emjoi
Alot of good people who thought they were doing the "Right Thing" are going to be awfully disappointed.

Yes there will. No man can earn his way to heaven by doing anything. Anything we do that we "think" is good, is filth in the eyes of GOD. Whether we know him or not. If we know him and any good works come out of it, it's only because of the fact that we know him, not any attempt to "earn our ticket".

The only way is Jesus Christ and what he did. It's the most simple thing there is and so many just out right refuse it. Forgive yourself, accept forgiveness and get over it.

Originally posted by NJE777
So, genetics it appears is a mitigating factor in the selection criteria. Perhaps its the only criteria. Seems to narrow it down quite a bit.

It does. Unless one has pretty pure Jewish roots, they can count themselves out. Me included.

Originally posted by NJE777
I agree completely with your first part of the sentence, however you lost me on the last suggestion.

It's not a suggestion, it's a fact. You can literally satisfy your enemy by returning fire. If you return love, his conscience will nearly kill him and quite possibly give him a chance to set himself straight. It was designed to.

Originally posted by NJE777
What is your life now? Are you a ghost? If you pinch yourself you are alive. You are not dead.

The flesh is all you see. If you saw things more eternal, you'd understand.

Originally posted by NJE777
lol oh wow, that is denial

That you don't see either. Forget religion and go to the source, which is satan's attempt to drag down as many with him as he can. Religions, rituals, "holy" puppets, or whatever are a front that satan hides himself behind.

Originally posted by NJE777
You sound complacent and maybe even a little defeated.

You have no idea. Satan would love to have the world believe we are defeated. We won 2000 years ago. The Shepherd is just now in the process of gathering the other sheep. As soon as those sheep are gathered the final week will begin.

Originally posted by NJE777
You have decided that Revelation is going to happen regardless.

It doesn't matter what I've decided or You've decided. It's going to happen.

Originally posted by NJE777
We can't do anything but just sit back and let it happen'????

Just what exactly do you have in mind to do? Start a revolution? Civil wars? The very thing that will fulfill Revelation.

Originally posted by FlyersFan
If God was only letting 144,000 'make it', then I don't think He'd be the kind of God that I'd want to worship for all eternity anyways.

There will be others that make it. The earth will have to be repopulated afterward.

Originally posted by NJE777

What God WILL do is save those worth saving and based on the above, the earth will experience serious hardship and there will be lots of death and dying and suffering before he comes - and i would assume it would perhaps reach a point where only 144,000 are left and are worth saving.

Yes, perhaps. But, I wonder what causes the serious hardship and lots of death and suffering before he comes? It wouldn't have anything to do with humans perpetuating the war mentality by any chance? There is a lot of death and suffering all over the world right now, Iraq comes to mind. But that has nothing to do with religion, does it?

You know, sometimes I wish i head paid more attention in religious things but I didn't, however, I believe we are heading in that very direction where, and as you rightfully say, the world is already in a situation where there is widespread death and suffering. I guess, and again the bible was written so many times over and over and a lot lost/changed in translation, that quite possibly the "evil" may not be in the form of one man but (the man) this is a way of personifying "evil" or giving it a face. But there are so many rulers who subscribe to war and give little regard to the people of their country that I would venture to say that these people, collectively, are going to be "the anti-christ". Maybe not them now but in the future. Evil - IMHO is all that is not in adherence to the 10 commandments and that which is the cause of death and poverty etc. I mean, poverty as such, in terms of the dude sitting on the side of the road, who couldn't give a damn about getting a job, is not necessarily a product of evil but ¾ of a country that is poverty stricken can may well be a product of evil or wrong ding. I guess this is not the place to define evil and discuss what is and what isn’t because I think that could be a long thread

Not sure if I made any sense above, anyways, “evil” would rear its head in the form of wars, famine etc etc – not necessarily as a person but God will step in and save those worthy of being saved and, (tongue in cheek) perhaps those that are left will be so shaken by all this devastation they will have no alternative but to believe in God and beg forgiveness and pray to be saved and then they would be saved. As far as there being equal to or millions more than 144k, who knows.

I am not a scholar in these things so I just give my opinions and thoughts and beliefs – whatever they are worth.

The 144,000 are not the "only ones to make it". They are however selected from among mankind for a special purpose.
According to Rev 5:9 & 10 they will rule as Kings and Priests.

(Revelation 5:9-10) 9 And they sing a new song, saying: “You are worthy to take the scroll and open its seals, because you were slaughtered and with your blood you bought persons for God out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation, 10 and you made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God, and they are to rule as kings over the earth.”

Kings have to have subjects & Priests have to have people to minister to.
Rev 5:10 says that they will be kings over the earth. That is where their subjects will be.



[edit on 22-3-2007 by Sparky63]

Originally posted by NJE777

Perhaps I misunderstand this, but when Adam & Eve ate from the tree of knowledge, it is written that they would come to know what good and evil is, like gods?

How would god/s know what good and evil was if they hadn't have experienced it themselves?

How did god obtain the knowledge?

Adam and Eve got to know what was good and what was bad in the special sense of now judging for themselves what was good and what was bad. They were idolatrously placing their judgment above God’s, disobediently becoming a law to themselves, as it were, instead of obeying God's, who has both the right and the wisdom necessary to determine good and bad. So their independent knowledge, or standard, of good and bad was not like that of their creators. Rather, it was one that led them to misery.—Jer 10:23.

[edit on 22-3-2007 by Sparky63]

I defenetly think we should remember what we were raised and what we should believe in. thow shall not steal, kill, or sin. i Agree

The "rapture" was invented in the 1800's.

The New Testemant is so messed up in regards to its translation, all original meaning is lost.

If you think Jesus spoke in old English your wrong. And if you think the men who converted it would never intentionally mistranslate much of it.. you under estimate the greed of men.

Originally posted by Rockpuck

If you think Jesus spoke in old English your wrong. And if you think the men who converted it would never intentionally mistranslate much of it.. you under estimate the greed of men.

I have never met anyone who thinks that Jesus spoke Old English, although I have met several who are more comfortable using the King James version rather than a modern translation.

It is sometimes difficult though to really get the sense of a scripture when using the King James even though it may have such a familiar tone.

Thats why I feel that some modern translations may be better than such old ones as the King James of 1611. The English language has changed so much over the years

For instance: 2 Thessalonians 2:7 (King James Version)
7For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

to “let” used to mean to “hinder.” Today the meaning usually attached to the expression is just the opposite, to “permit.”

Or this: 1 Corinthians 10:25 (King James Version)
25Whatsoever is sold in the shambles, that eat, asking no question for conscience sake:

For most persons today “shambles” does not refer to a “meat market,” as it used to, but to a “scene of destruction.”

Or this one: 1 Thessalonians 4:15 (King James Version)
15For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

To “prevent” used to mean to “go before” or to “precede.” Today it means to “keep from happening.”

What a thought provoking thread. I would never put myself in the catagory of the blessed few that are truly chosen. I have not lived my life according to written scripture, but I would still lay down my life in defense of the Christian God. I spent most of my youth in a Baptist school, but my family was not that religous ( I have never been Baptised...go figure). The exact number of 144,000 is a figure I am not here to debate, but if that is the way it goes down....then so be it. All I know how to do is try to live my life as honorably as possible (which is hard when you live as a beer swilling, tattoed, heathen). Only the Almighty knows.

I know that some of you know about this and it is off topic, but some here may not. If there was a man that was alive now that would deserve to be a part of the 144,000 it would be this man.

www.ibelieveinangels.com...

Originally posted by shai hulud
What a thought provoking thread. I would never put myself in the catagory of the blessed few that are truly chosen. I have not lived my life according to written scripture, but I would still lay down my life in defense of the Christian God. I spent most of my youth in a Baptist school, but my family was not that religous ( I have never been Baptised...go figure).

I am not baptised either...

I know that some of you know about this and it is off topic, but some here may not. If there was a man that was alive now that would deserve to be a part of the 144,000 it would be this man.
www.ibelieveinangels.com...

George Washington?
I just read it, quite interesting.
It's a lovely read, but it just seems very patriotic.

Originally posted by Shar
Genesis: Chapter 18
23 And Abraham drew near, and said, Wilt thou also destroy the righteous with the wicked?

24 Peradventure there be fifty righteous within the city: wilt thou also destroy and not spare the place for the fifty righteous that are therein? ....


26 And the LORD said, If I find in Sodom fifty righteous within the city, then I will spare all the place for their sakes. .......

32 And he said, Oh let not the LORD be angry, and I will speak yet but this once: Peradventure ten shall be found there. And he said, I will not destroy it for ten's sake. ........

Aside from the drunken antics of Lot's two daughters, I have always liked this story, in particular when they were trying to decide on how many good people were in the city before they would destroy it. Started with fifty and then ended up 10 good men. I wonder what the popn was in Sodom & Gomorrah? I wonder what the ratio was. Perhaps if we apply to the present... I can think of more than 50 good people in Adelaide!

we live in hope...














[edit on 16-3-2007 by Shar]

Originally posted by defcon5
A very similar school of thought is called Catastrophism…
Google it up, youll find it interesting.

I did, thanks, first time I have even heard of it. Very interesting. I will do a search here at ATS and see if anything comes up.

Originally posted by NJE777
We can't do anything but just sit back and let it happen'????

Quote by Wisesheep
Just what exactly do you have in mind to do? Start a revolution? Civil wars? The very thing that will fulfill Revelation.

Well, this is where I disagree. I feel that if we don't do anything we are allowing Revelation to be fulfilled. Are we all that powerless? I really feel that Revelation, the timing is open and perhaps, it is the default path.


[edit on 23-3-2007 by NJE777]