Moderators Are Not Above The Terms & Conditions

reply to post by ignorant_ape


I see that you are one of those Deny Ignorance Loyalists... looking to earn some stripes are we?

Your comparing the subject of this thread to accusations made in the past about this site being owned by Uncle Sam is just idiotic. Methinks you are so desperate to earn those stripes you scrambled for an example that is blowing thiis issue out of all proportion.

Calm down, and take a breather. If you weren't so hasty to prove your obediance, you would see I am mocking this thread in its entirity - thats ALL angles, including those that you seem to be accusing me of approaching from.

Seems dbates might have got it, though...

You want evidence that we police ourselves? No problem. Do a member search on ex-mods Netchicken and Colonel. There are many more that are not banned but are no longer mods. I won't name them as they are still members, active or not.

reply to post by intrepid


A bit off topic, but wasn’t the netchicken incident more of an act of treachery/interboerd warfare as opposed to moderator policing?

reply to post by Mr Mxyztplk


It was both. This guy went overboard with me when I wasn't staff. He was not a good moderator.

Originally posted by Terran Blue
reply to post by ignorant_ape

 

I see that you are one of those Deny Ignorance Loyalists... looking to earn some stripes are we?

no - i asked a question - your total avoidance of it is telling

Your comparing the subject of this thread to accusations made in the past about this site being owned by Uncle Sam is just idiotic. Methinks you are so desperate to earn those stripes you scrambled for an example that is blowing thiis issue out of all proportion.

no it is spot on - claims are made , no subsansial evidence is presentevd and demanda are made that ATS " disproove them "

the parrallels are uncanny

Calm down, and take a breather. If you weren't so hasty to prove your obediance, you would see I am mocking this thread in its entirity - thats ALL angles, including those that you seem to be accusing me of approaching from.

nice back peddling

i am calm , i do not need to " take a breath " as breathing is an autonomic reaction for me

your entire reply was a descent from evasion , through ad-homeinim to back peddling , bravo - you are an idiot

Alright, enough bickering and insults.

Originally posted by intrepid
There are many more that are not banned but are no longer mods. I won't name them as they are still members, active or not.

Name me! Name me!

(Thanks for naming me, Ape...)

I just couldn't handle the pressure, man! (j/k)



I feel this thread needs a little levity. Ya think?

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


Just for the record BH wasn't removed. She preferred to not have the handcuffs on. Yes, handcuffs. Staff can't post as they will, even inside the T&C. There are some that would still take offense, even though there is nothing wrong with their post.

Originally posted by intrepid
There are some that would still take offense...

Some that clearly DO...

It's a thankless job. It's fun and a great honor, AND it's also a lot of hard work and it involves caring about some people you'd really rather not have to care about and constantly having your judgments questioned, sometimes feeling like a jerk and sometimes LOOKING like a jerk...

But, please know (to all mods, staff and all youse guys) that MOST of us love the heck out of you and REALLY appreciate what you do. I mean REALLY!

The Best Defense

Originally posted by intrepid
Staff can't post as they will, even inside the T&C. There are some that would still take offense, even though there is nothing wrong with their post.

It doesn't bother me too much if someone takes offense to something that isn't offensive, so I don't let that stop me.

Getting back to the point of this thread, I must say some of the responses don't make any sense to me whatsoever.

There are no exemptions in the terms & conditions for moderators, and the administrators have made it absolutely clear that they apply to mods just as they apply to any other member.

I'm not denying that mods occasionally violate the T&C either, otherwise I wouldn't be advising members on what to do when they see it happen.

Laying Out The Terms

For those wondering, I link to the AboveTopSecret.com Terms And Conditions Of Use as often as I do because far too many members clearly remain in ignorance of them despite their own explicit agreements to honor them and the persistent urgings of myself and all other staff members to understand them.

People can be facetious and try to quibble over all this if they want, but doing so is pointless and I won't be playing along with such efforts.

Rather, I just want to make sure that as many of my fellow members as possible understand that the terms & conditions are binding upon all of us, including mods, and that it is the duty of the staff to enforce them regardless of who may violate them.

That's why I'm asking members to report violations by staff members.

We can't respond if we're not aware of them.

Now I’m not saying that this happens, but say I made a complaint about mod X would mod X be able to respond to it and therefore negate my having made a complaint? I’m just really curious.

reply to post by Mr Mxyztplk


mod x would be able to respond as in offering their side and reasoning, however they can't hide it under a virtual rug, or stick into a closet... to prevent staff from seeing it if that is what you're worried about.

reply to post by Mr Mxyztplk


Nope, Complaints/Suggestions are seen by ALL staff.

reply to post by worldwatcher


Not so much worried, I’ve only been chewed out by a mod once, and I defiantly deserved it.
I’m just wondering how it works.

Is it just me or has the BB&Q forum become the Whinge forum.
Whats up with people here lately.
Im a relative newcomer to discussion boards but this place beats any other that ive seen hands down in regards to moderation and ownership. And by ownership i dont just mean the amigo's but the entire membership.
This may sound rude, but get a life people!!
Be thankful for the freedoms we have here. Think about how large this site is and how difficult it would be to moderate everything that happens here on a daily basis.
Sure there may be some friendships that we would see as preferential treatment, well so what. many of these moderators have been here for years and created and fostered friendships, THAT is human nature. What do you want robots, i sure as hell dont.
Its simple really, if you dont like it, dont let the door hit you on the ass on the way out.

Bully Mods

Originally posted by Mr Mxyztplk
Not so much worried, I’ve only been chewed out by a mod once, and I defiantly deserved it.
I’m just wondering how it works.

Another thing I know members worry about (yeah, I used to worry about it too) is a form of abuse where you get on a mod's "bad side" because you disagree on some topic or ideological issue and then that mod uses his or her position as a moderator to harass you.**

If you think this is happening, please let us know!

That sort of misconduct is death to an online community, and we go to great pains to avoid giving any member even the slightest impression that it's tolerated.

As mentioned above, all staff members can see complaints.

While circumstances may vary, if a member expresses concern that a mod is "out to get them", other mods will review the complaint and typically the accused mod will -- just in case -- opt to avoid taking any action against that member in the future and refer any problems to other mods.

Team Spirit

So concerned are we about even the perception of being abusive that we generally don't take moderator action in threads where we participate as members (i.e., giving our own opinions on the topic), but instead are encouraged to request reviews by other mods if we see T&C violations.

I very much understand why some members might be concerned about anything involving conflicts with mods, and there have been problems of this kind in the past. We don't want or need that kind of trouble now or going forward, so we're very passionate about keeping an eye on each other.

The first thing I was taught when I became a mod is that we work as a team. Cowboys and Rambos need not apply, and when there is any doubt, all mods are expected to call in backup to make sure we do the right thing.

That doesn't mean we're perfect, or that mods don't blow a fuse now and then. It happens.

I'm just saying that when it does happen, we have ways of dealing with it, and where members have been wronged, we want to make things right.






**NOTE: Responding to repeated and willful violations of the terms & conditions is not harassment, but what mods are expected to do. If you're not violating the T&C, however, and a mod is on your case because of your opinions on the issues, that is harassment and should be reported immediately.

Originally posted by Majic
That doesn't mean we're perfect, or that mods don't blow a fuse now and then. It happens.

I'm just saying that when it does happen, we have ways of dealing with it, and where members have been wronged, we want to make things right.






**NOTE: Responding to repeated and willful violations of the terms & conditions is not harassment, but what mods are expected to do. If you're not violating the T&C, however, and a mod is on your case because of your opinions on the issues, that is harassment and should be reported immediately.

A note to those who may read this:

Refresh your understanding of the Terms and Conditions, READ the above, POST and NOTIFY accordingly...

YOU'LL BE GOLDEN. Honestly.

It really IS that simple.



$.02

Originally posted by Majic
Bully Mods

Another thing I know members worry about (yeah, I used to worry about it too) is a form of abuse where you get on a mod's "bad side" because you disagree on some topic or ideological issue and then that mod uses his or her position as a moderator to harass you.**

About a month ago I did have this feeling about an ATS Mod which knocked my high enthusiasm about being a part of ATS down quite a bit. If it wasn't for other members telling me to just "do what the Mod says anyway and don't let them get to you" id probably have the ATS bookmark deleted and never come back after being a long time fan/reader.

It was about 2 things that this "Mod" got onto me about and to this day I still don't understand "why". The 1st issue this Mod had was my signature. According to the signature guidelines, in my eyes, I was totally following the ATS rules. I had the signature up for about a week. Then the Mod messaged me saying other Mods are telling him/her about it and that it was a signature that went against the rules of ATS. After several U2U's from this Mod avoiding my question of "why is it wrong and what is it that I am not following so I can correct it?" the only answer this mod could give me was "it just is, so remove it or I wont lift the posting ban I placed on you". When I gave this mod about 10 other member names that had very similar signatures and asked why those were OK and mine wasn't the mod said he/she would look at those I mentioned. A U2U from the mod later on stated that those others were OK but mine "just wasn't" and kept giving me the T&C link with out giving me anything specific to look for and to understand why mine was supposedly wrong. When I told this mod that I felt I was being "singled out for some reason" the mod replied by saying "yes you are being singled out so remove it". So to avoid being on this Mods "bad side" anymore, I removed it.

The 2nd thing/issue was the mod said I broke a profanity filter rule. What I did was I placed an "asterisk ** symbol" in between letters of a word that started with the letter "S" and ends in the letter "T" (instead of typing the letters "BS" which is so commonly seen in posts). I never used the actual spelling of this word, I used asterisk symbols like I see so many others use, but the mod edited my post and placed me on a ban until I removed my signature. Can it be clarified whether or not "asterisk symbols" are acceptable or not for the middle letters of words that may be considered profanity, because it seems this is quite common in posts but yet I don't see said posts having any sort of mod warnings when asterisks are used in them? The first time I used a " * symbol " I never got a warning but a U2U saying im being "post banned", harsh.

Anywho, I still enjoy ATS and a lot of its mods posts even tho after dealing with this one mod I no longer have the sense of pride of having placed the ATS logo into any of my avatars as I once did. Maybe someday.
It also makes me wonder if speaking out is equivalent to shooting ones self in the foot.
Bzzzzzzz

reply to post by BuzzingOn


Here's a word from the wise. The Amigos all have email addresses. Put them into your email friends list, so that when/if something of that nature happens at a later time, you can email them, and explain your side. I can assure you that they WILL respond in kind, and in a hurry. All of this is contingent, of course, on the investigation that they will do into the matter.

Heck, if you want, you can get a hold of me via my email address in my profile, and I'll submit a complaint on your behalf. I got no problem with that. And that goes for EVERYONE here, ok? We stick together, fight together, and Deny Ignorance together!! 'Till the bitter end!!

TheBorg

[Edited to clarify a point.]

[edit on 20-10-2007 by TheBorg]

It's hard to generalize when it comes to the mods.

They are each very different creatures.


While my general experience with mods has been GREAT, there have been a few that are nothing more than a pain in the arse.

Most mods, when questioned about a decision, are good enough to explain their decision and even, in one particular case of mine, admit their mistake and reverse their decisions. However, there are 2 or 3 mods around here that get their panties in a bunch anytime you question ANYTHING they say or do. Those same mods also have a bad habit of creating a craplist of sorts and they are none to shy about placing certain members on it.


I know I have done my share of mod aggravating around here with my stubbornness. However, most of them were quick to forgive and forget once I stopped "spitting in their face".


For the most part, the mods here are wonderful in comparison to other large forums around the net. However, it only takes one or two really really crappy mods to bring a site down. Unfortunately, ATS does have a couple of mods that would be best suited where they love to send so many threads....in the trash bin.

While most mods are very fair and balanced, there are those couple that need to learn that "only make posts that I personally agree with" is NOT in the T&C.



Oh yea and I still stand by my point that "s***" is an example of censoring and NOT censor circumvention hahahaha.

This is something else I feel needs to be addressed as plenty of mods use this same form of censoring their own posts.




Jasn