Bob Lazar and Element 115

Originally posted by schuyler



I the Lazar's, Burisch's, and Corso's who are rather easily discredited as everything from nuts to meglomaniacs serves only to dillute efforts at finding the truth.

"I believe!" doesn't cut it.

I am familiar with most of the information out there on Bob Lazar, and have read Stanton's thoughts, Tom Mahood, Glenn Campbell and others. I agree with most of what you say, but I did post a link earlier in this thread to a physicist who does agree that many of Lazar's ideas are possible. When I cannot confirm some of the smallest charges made against Lazar, that troubles me. I may have to call one or more of the above gentlemen for clarification.

I think you may be right that he worked for a temp agency or the like while a background investigation was underway, however his W2 from Naval Intel
is evidence that he did in fact work for them, short as it may have been. The fact that he took John Lear and others to watch a test flight is interesting also. Many at Los Alamos said they worked with Lazar there. He is an interesting and intelligent fellow, to be sure. His academic credentials are very troubling, at least the M.I.T. and Cal Tech part of it. I understood that he competed his bachelor's degree at a non-traditional university, being just a few hours short of degree requirements. There are some very excellent non-traditional universities out there, even at that time, Regents of New York being a first class example.

I don't think the world has heard the last of Mr. Robert Lazar, and it will be interesting to see how his statements match against conventional physics as years go by.



[edit on 4/26/2007 by TheAvenger]

You mentioned Lazar taking John Lear and others to view a test flight of a UFO. Who were those other people again and have they also publicly commented on the event? Maybe they have already... if so please post a link or something...

Originally posted by Diplomat
You mentioned Lazar taking John Lear and others to view a test flight of a UFO. Who were those other people again and have they also publicly commented on the event? Maybe they have already... if so please post a link or something...

Odd you should ask about this Diplomat. I am almost set up to make a copy of a video we took that night. Unfotunately it doesn't have the saucer in it because in the excitement we left the video camera on the bumper of my motor home. But it does have about 9 minutes of the aftermath which is kind of funny. The date is March 22, 1989. I got an acount at utube and got the hardware and software now all I have to do is figure out how to get it from the tape to utube. When it does get there the video is black for about 6 minutes as the camera is still on the bumper and we are talking about the incident. The last 3 minutes is Bob taking a video of me recounting what happened. The people there were me, Bob, Gene Huff and Bobs wife Jacqui.

Originally posted by johnlear
Who was the 'private contractor' that Bob worked for at Area 51? I thought he worked for the United State Department of Naval Intelligence. I thought that was what was printed on his W-2. Thanks.

Do you mean the Office of Naval Intelligence John or was that a typo on his W-2? How easy do you think it would be to forge that document? Has anybody verfied the Employer Identification Number (EIN)? Thanks.

Originally posted by johnlear

Odd you should ask about this Diplomat. I am almost set up to make a copy of a video we took that night. Unfotunately it doesn't have the saucer in it because in the excitement we left the video camera on the bumper of my motor home. But it does have about 9 minutes of the aftermath which is kind of funny. The date is March 22, 1989. I got an acount at utube and got the hardware and software now all I have to do is figure out how to get it from the tape to utube. When it does get there the video is black for about 6 minutes as the camera is still on the bumper and we are talking about the incident. The last 3 minutes is Bob taking a video of me recounting what happened. The people there were me, Bob, Gene Huff and Bobs wife Jacqui.

That's cool that you still have that video because I was under the impression that you didn't have any unseen footage or anything like that.

Just try to save your movie file as a .wmv and then goto add a new video to your youtube account. It's pretty simple.

Can't wait to see it...

Originally posted by hangerateteen

Originally posted by johnlear
Who was the 'private contractor' that Bob worked for at Area 51? I thought he worked for the United State Department of Naval Intelligence. I thought that was what was printed on his W-2. Thanks.

Do you mean the Office of Naval Intelligence John or was that a typo on his W-2?

No. Its United States Department of Naval Intelligence. No typo.

How easy do you think it would be to forge that document?

These days? Pretty easy.

Has anybody verfied the Employer Identification Number (EIN)? Thanks.

Yes. Bob Oechsler.

Originally posted by johnlear
No. Its United States Department of Naval Intelligence. No typo.

Thanks John. According to the Office of Naval Intelligence the ONI was established in 1882 and Bob's alleged W-2 is for 1989.

www.nmic.navy.mil...

[fixed typo]


[edit on 27-4-2007 by hangerateteen]

Originally posted by TheAvenger
His academic credentials are very troubling, at least the M.I.T. and Cal Tech part of it.

I voiced this question is another thread but I just don't see how you can go to a school and have no record of having attended. I know that I went to college and graduate school over 20 years ago and could easily produce evidence if anyone doubted my attendance. Even if the government managed to get the schools to change my records and broke into my house to steal diplomas and such, I still would have friends and relatives (and an ex-wife) who could attest to my attendance and they have photographs (of me and others) and their own dipomas etc to back up their testimony. This doesn't even include other records that could be obtained such as student loans, insurance, rent, bank accounts, tax receipts etc.

Maybe Lazar is uniquely thick-skinned but if I had half the country calling me a liar, I'd work to prove otherwise.

Originally posted by niv

Maybe Lazar is uniquely thick-skinned but if I had half the country calling me a liar, I'd work to prove otherwise.

Either that or wait around until his predictions of the Gravity A and B wave at 7.46 Hz, or Element 115 as a stable element, or Singular Mass Units (smu's) as the smallest units of matter or U.S. moon and Mars bases are admitted or proven.

Originally posted by hangerateteen
Thanks John. According to the Office of Naval Intelligence the ONI was established in 1882 and Bob's alleged W-2 is for 1989.

www.nmic.navy.mil...

Whoops! How silly of me. I should have looked on the internet before posting Bob's W-4 as authentic. Sorry. Please accept my apologies.

I don't understand the issue here. Office of Naval Intelligence became Department of Naval Intelligence in 1942.

Cross referencing sources FTW!!!!

Originally posted by johnlear

Originally posted by hangerateteen
Thanks John. According to the Office of Naval Intelligence the ONI was established in 1882 and Bob's alleged W-2 is for 1989.

www.nmic.navy.mil...

Whoops! How silly of me. I should have looked on the internet before posting Bob's W-4 as authentic. Sorry. Please accept my apologies.

That's OK John, I'm sure it's not the first time any of us have been fooled by a fraud nor will it be the last time.

MrPenny, please check and cite your sources and click on the above link to the current official web site of the Office of Naval Intelligence where you will learn that the ONI is the "oldest continuously operating intelligence service in the nation" (US). Thanks.

Here's what I found:

Department of Naval Intelligence, 1942



Maybe they contracted the low bidder to run their W2s



[edit on 4/27/2007 by TheAvenger]

Originally posted by hangerateteen
That's OK John, I'm sure it's not the first time any of us have been fooled by a fraud nor will it be the last time.

Here is a larger copy.



Here is what it says on Lazar's website:

"In August 1990, George Knapp, the reporter that first broke the story, uncovered a W2 for Robert Lazar. This slip represents payments, after deductions, for five days, (non-consecutive) working at the S4 base. Lazar started at the end of December 1988. And had only been at the base five times before the new year.

Note at the top of the slip is a field reserved for the O.M.B. (Office of Management and Budget. )

Note Lazar's Employee number. E-6722MAJ."



So hangerateteen, how do you think such a careful and thorough investigator like George Knapp got fooled???? I mean it wouldn't be very difficult to sell me a bill of goods but how did Bob Lazar get it by George Knapp? And why such a pittance? If you were trying to fake that you were working on an extraterrestrial flying saucer wouldn't it be worth more than $8 a hour?

Originally posted by johnlear
Here is what it says on Lazar's website:

"Note Lazar's Employee number. E-6722MAJ."

Yeah looks like Bob would like us to think "MAJ" has something to do with the MJ-12 hoax. Cute.

Originally posted by johnlearSo hangerateteen, how do you think such a careful and thorough investigator like George Knapp got fooled???? I mean it wouldn't be very difficult to sell me a bill of goods but how did Bob Lazar get it by George Knapp?

I can't speak for George but I would have to question his investigative skills if he truly bought that as evidence.

And why such a pittance? If you were trying to fake that you were working on an extraterrestrial flying saucer wouldn't it be worth more than $8 a hour?

I can't speak for Bob so I’ll let him speak for himself...

Bob Lazar at "The Ultimate UFO Seminar"
Transcript from Conference Held at Little A-Le-Inn, Rachel, Nevada, May 1, 1993
www.ufomind.com...

Q: Yeah, some critics have suggested that there is not a Department of Naval Intelligence that's shown on your W... your IRS record. I wonder if you could address that.

BL: Yeah, I've heard people say that before, but the bottom line is, if you... and I've let other people check into that... Bob Oechsler's a guy that managed to trace that down through the IRS, and if you write the ZIP code number on the bottom of it, or NC-101 or something like that, or NC-something... anyway it gets to, it gets to somewhere in the Navy. As far if there's a department there, nah, I don't know, but that's the W-2 that I got sent, so...

QF: Well, that same person was saying, though, that the ZIP code that was on there was some one that was in reserve, unused in Washington.

BL: That was unused?

QF: Yeah.

BL: Well, no, he had correspondence with someone in the Navy, through that address.

QF: I'm not talking about Bob Oechsler. I'm talking about Bill Moore.

BL: Oh, Bill Moore, I don't... I don't know, Bill Moore...

QF: I know, he's an enigma himself.

BL: Yeah, I guess he disputes everything I said. He said, well, there's two different types on here, and this and that, and I say, well, I don't know. So, that's basically what I get sent, and I've seen enough information to where that ZIP code works, and that's all the information I have. I really haven't pursued it myself.

Q: Maybe you can clarify something, why you think this is a legitimate document, because of the considerable elements of...[?]

BL: Oh, because of the amount of money. Yeah, no one would know the amount of money except me and the people that... That's all the information I've got....

Q: I have two questions. They're not related to each other, but one is, are they silent or noiseless, and, B, who signed your paychecks?

BL: As far as, are they silent or noiseless, there's a slight hiss before they take off, up to a certain altitude, and that sounds like a high voltage hiss of sorts. That's all the sounds that I've heard. I've heard lots of reports about weird flying saucer type sounds, but I've never encountered that. Who signed my paycheck? There was a signature on it, but I don't know whose it was. At the time that I cashed the paycheck, it never even concerned me, tracing anything down.

QF: Are you sure there wasn't a company name up in the corner like most paychecks?

AUDIENCE: Well, I worked for the Federal government years ago. All you get is a green Treasury check. There would be no other papers with it. From the Department of Treasury.

BL: No, this said the Department of Naval Intelligence on it.

QF: On the check.

BL: Yeah, on the check.

Yeah, OK. I also read somewhere that the SSN he used traces back to (a woman in?) New York and it was issued around 1976 or thereabouts?

The rest of the transcript at the above link re: Bob's 115 claims etc. is pretty revealing too.

Originally posted by Diplomat
Hmm, ok so I guess the whole Element 115 thing isn't really a "smoking gun." Byrd, what you said makes sense... I am sure scientists have contemplated what Element 115 would be like etc etc.

But what about Bob's schooling? He claimed to have attended MIT and Caltech, but there are no records of him whatsoever. He claims what most people in his position claim, that the government "erased him." Does he really believe that everyone is just supposed to leave it at that? Like there isn't a professor, classmate, or someone that can account for Bob taking classes there? The logical conclusion is that Bob is lying about where he went to school...

I am, here and today, predicting element 335. Why? because I know, somehow and someway, you could create the conditions in the universe to stabilize such an element. How will it act? I don't know...doesn't appear Bob knew much about 115 either. Does that make him a fraud? No, it makes him a master of the obvious. i would reckon that 120 would be found sometime in our life, too. The point? You pick a small enough differentiator for your milestone discoveries and you are bound to hit a high percentage.

Now...it is easy to believe that he was "scrubbed" from teh record. If i were in charge of something like that, i would pick nondescripte yet bright kids that, while well adjusted, blended in and didn't make many friends. Middle of the road in every way. Nothing many would really remember....

It would be all too easy to find people to staff black badget labs. You just gotta be smart enough to rig a system that makes it easy for you to remove their history.

I have read that the periodic table of the elements can only theoretically go out to element 137 as far as we know. Unfortunately, we know little compared to a
civilization that can rapidly travel distances that we cannot even conceive of. John is right; time will tell on Bob Lazar's stories. The government will not confirm it, but then they didn't deny it either....... I would like to meet Bob Lazar one day, speak with him and and determine his credibility for myself. There are supposedly various things about his experience that he has related to some that the general public is not aware of. If I had seen the experiments done with element 115 like John Lear has, it would be easy to make me a believer.

[edit on 4/29/2007 by TheAvenger]

Here's a question that begs to be asked about Bob Lazar.

If this is a guy who has no secondary education, according to all entities in the educational arena, then how is it possible he starts a company called United Nuclear, that has government contracts with the defense department if the guy isn't legitimate?

More importantly, I was watching a UFO thing with Stanton Friedman, and he was railing on Lazar. Funny, how they never mention the guy's vocation, or how the guy who supposedly isn't educated built a jet car.

It's funny what happened to Bob Lazar. It would also explain a lot about why the UFO thing isn't something the best and brightest go after.

sorry repeat post

[edit on 30-4-2007 by niv]

Originally posted by johnlear
And why such a pittance? If you were trying to fake that you were working on an extraterrestrial flying saucer wouldn't it be worth more than $8 a hour?

Why is it so small a salary? I was working summers in the mid-80s during college in the parking lot of a non-profit concert park making more than Bob was getting paid to work on a professional basis on an highly classified program. At least if you were serious about the $8 an hour.