do you think SETI's Dr Seth Shostak is a debunker?

?

I've recently started getting into this UFO stuff and whatnot, watching various videos etc. I've seen this Dr. Seth Shostak from SETI on some of the different shows on NGC and History Channel.. He's always making it seem like anything to do with ETs visiting Earth (now or in the past) isn't true "because of the lack of evidence", or claims that governments aren't covering anything up.. It seems that anytime that one of these UFO shows needs the "other side of the argument" presented it's Shostak that's doing it....

So, I was wondering, what's the feeling about this guy around here..? And does anyone else get the impression that he's working from his own agenda -to make sure SETI continues on-?

Dr. Seth Shostak is one of those who uses belittlement to fight his case .
that's all that man has and he uses it . he's a joke to me . just m2c .

with Gen. Disaray...

[edit on 13-3-2007 by Stale Cracker]

SETI scientists like Seth are jealous that there are something like 5% of credible unexplainable UFO sightings.

They can't even manage to get a couple of signals that might indicate intelligent, extraterrestrial origin. Alright, they had the 'WOW' signal, but that was it!

Imagine the billions of dollars they would want if even 0.1% of signals returned to them were 'interesting' and 'unexplainable'.

Seth looks everywhere for evidence, expect in his own backyard.

I have to agree with everyone here. I believe this man uses his position and title to try and cover his arsh.

Originally posted by gen.disaray
Dr. Seth Shostak is one of those who uses belittlement to fight his case .
that's all that man has and he uses it . he's a joke to me . just m2c .

Yep-And the sad fact of the matter is, if you've ever listened to him blather on, it becomes very clear that he hasn't done (or is pretending not to have done) the least bit of homework on the subject. The guy not only completely ignores, but actually changes the subject of landing TRACE cases, where physical evidence has been left behind.

His ignoramic rebuttals expose the fact that he has an agenda-TO KEEP HIS JOB. lol. After all, if he DOES admit that we are being visited, then what is the point for continuing to send out signals to far distant galaxy's?

Originally posted by xmaskx
?

I've recently started getting into this UFO stuff and whatnot, watching various videos etc. I've seen this Dr. Seth Shostak from SETI on some of the different shows on NGC and History Channel.. He's always making it seem like anything to do with ETs visiting Earth (now or in the past) isn't true "because of the lack of evidence", or claims that governments aren't covering anything up.. It seems that anytime that one of these UFO shows needs the "other side of the argument" presented it's Shostak that's doing it....

So, I was wondering, what's the feeling about this guy around here..? And does anyone else get the impression that he's working from his own agenda -to make sure SETI continues on-?

If you listen carefully to Shostak (he has a weekly podcast), you might discern that he really, really wishes he could scientificallly investigate UFOs, but for several reasons he cannot, some of which are explicit (lack of a scientifically valid evidence base, for example), and some of which are implicit (the giggle factor, lack of funding).

Yes, he's a skeptic. What's wrong with that? Looking hard and long at the evidence is how science gets done.

[edit on 13-3-2007 by disownedsky]

Seth Shostak is looking for the same thing you are. Intelligent life from another planet he belives it is out there which makes him have alot in common with you.

sorry but whether you like it or not theres no irrefutable concrete proof we are being visited by E.Ts.

The way you attack seth shostak in an almost religeous kind of way. You can still respect someones opinion and disagree with them.



[edit on 13-3-2007 by yeti101]

Originally posted by tezzajw
They can't even manage to get a couple of signals that might indicate intelligent, extraterrestrial origin. Alright, they had the 'WOW' signal, but that was it!

If I'm not mistaken, that WOW signal thing is related to Seti@Home not the Seti Institute (2 completely different things)

And the reason why Seti@Home hasn't had much "results" is because the project is still in a datagathering, crunching and verification stage.

The result comparison stage is being setup at the moment and can take a while because they need to compare the several billion results they have from WU's and revisit the most promissing signals.

I'm sorry to say that imho, if you don't know the difference between "SETI", "Seti Institute", "Seti@Home" and all other SETI projects out there (be they official or public), you got no bussines talking about the subject.

No, the WOW signal happened 30 years ago at Ohio State, long before anyone had even dreamed of SETO@Home.

[edit on 13-3-2007 by disownedsky]

[edit on 13-3-2007 by disownedsky]

Originally posted by thematrix

Originally posted by tezzajw
They can't even manage to get a couple of signals that might indicate intelligent, extraterrestrial origin. Alright, they had the 'WOW' signal, but that was it!

I'm sorry to say that imho, if you don't know the difference between "SETI", "Seti Institute", "Seti@Home" and all other SETI projects out there (be they official or public), you got no bussines talking about the subject.

Now, now... Look who doesn't know anything at all about the WOW signal! It had NOTHING TO DO WITH SETI@HOME !!!

Do a Google search on it and see what you find!

For your information, not that I have to clarify my position anyway, I've been a member of The Planetary Society for around six years and I receive all of their updates about their SETI search efforts. I gave them a few $$$ to contribute to building their dedicated Optical SETI telescope at Oak Ridge. I was also hooked up to SETI@home for around four years and I returned a few thousand results. I stopped supporting the effort once they transferred their operation to the BOINC set-up. I've also been to the SETI Institute website and bought a T-shirt from there many years ago.

You don't even know about the WOW signal and you're trying to diss me on my SETI knowledge! Go away, do some research and hopefully learn something.

EDIT: I also own and have read Seth Shostak's book about SETI. Does that make me at least somewhat partially informed to comment about SETI and Seth??? Don't diss me without knowing the facts, or you'll continue to appear to be an uninformed idiot.

[edit on 13-3-2007 by tezzajw]

[edit on 13-3-2007 by tezzajw]

They can't even manage to get a couple of signals that might indicate intelligent, extraterrestrial origin. Alright, they had the 'WOW' signal, but that was it!

and whats the ufo community got? some interesting stories but no concrete evidence & people like grear & sereda.

Thats the problem with real scientific exploration it requires proof not nice stories.

Originally posted by yeti101

They can't even manage to get a couple of signals that might indicate intelligent, extraterrestrial origin. Alright, they had the 'WOW' signal, but that was it!

and whats the ufo community got? some interesting stories but no concrete evidence & people like grear & sereda.

Thats the problem with real scientific exploration it requires proof not nice stories.

Wrong. Mutual UFO Network field investigators have HUNDREDS of trace evidence cases on hand-Where actual physical evidence has been left behind-Altered soil and vegetation samples exposed to high energy/radiation outputs, Damage to solid objects that have been physically hit by craft, etc...


These are things that Shostak completely ignores in his lame rebuttals. These are not just a couple of cases but HUNDREDS. They can be reviewed through MUFON any time.

I am willing to bet a large amount of money that SETI is a privately sponsored military/industrial disinformation program and the government has at least some involvement behind the scenes!

Why after so many years have they not been able to discover any real ET signal There are thousands and thousands of ufo photos and videos availabe, hundreds of cases with at least some evidence, high and low ranking testimonials, radar contacts, etc and yet SETI seems completely oblivious to all of this!

Instead of looking in heaven for signals why not just look here on our very own planet for starters?!?!

SORRY, BUT IMO SETI SMELLS DISINFORMATION FROM MILES AWAY!!!!!!!!

Originally posted by yeti101

They can't even manage to get a couple of signals that might indicate intelligent, extraterrestrial origin. Alright, they had the 'WOW' signal, but that was it!

and whats the ufo community got? some interesting stories but no concrete evidence & people like grear & sereda.

Thats the problem with real scientific exploration it requires proof not nice stories.

It's a typical ignorant reply of your's that is common amongst uninformed debunkers.

The UFO community has many traces of ground markings, burns, electrical interference and radar sightings. That's a whole lot more than ONE promising SETI signal.

Originally posted by SocialistAgenda
I am willing to bet a large amount of money that SETI is a privately sponsored military/industrial disinformation program and the government has at least some involvement behind the scenes!

Why after so many years have they not been able to discover any real ET signal

There are thousands and thousands of ufo photos and videos availabe, hundreds of cases with at least some evidence, high and low ranking testimonials, radar contacts, etc and yet SETI seems completely oblivious to all of this!

Instead of looking in heaven for signals why not just look here on our very own planet for starters?!?!

SORRY, BUT IMO SETI SMELLS DISINFORMATION FROM MILES AWAY!!!!!!!!

I'll be honest, I dont know much about the SETI program in general. I'm just saying that from what I've seen of Shostak, he's always wanting to play "devil's advocate" concerning UFOs visiting us.

Also, (maybe one of you that knows more about SETI can help) How exactly do the SETI people intend to "intercept" or receive Alien "broadcasts? For that to be possible wouldn't we be assuming that the Aliens would be using "broadcast" technology compatible to our "listening" equipment? I know I can't pick up AM radio signals when my radio is set to FM...
Have the SETI researchers really accomplished anything in the history of their project?

thanks

Originally posted by xmaskx
Have the SETI researchers really accomplished anything in the history of their project?

Yeah, they helped to pioneer the concept of internet distributed computing resources with SETI@Home.

Whether or not Shostak is a 'debunker', he's just a typical scientific mouthpiece (a.k.a. scientific establishment) that dismisses historical evidence (i.e. ancient cave drawings, technological artifacts, early photographic evidence/sightings such as 1950 McMinnville, Oregon and 1958 Trinidade Island, etc.) and lacks the open-mindedness and will to truly explore the phenomenon with objectivity.

For instance, look at the archeological community as a whole, with the exception of a very few, who dismiss the tremendous number of ancient artifacts such as the electronic device encased within a large rock found in the southwest desert by a group of rockhounds and was consequently dated to some 500,000 years ago.

When modern science can't explain something it's quietly swept under the rug as to not 'rock the boat' with regard to 'established theory' and history, and it requires major guts to put the ego aside and go against the established grain and try to find the truth.

Have the SETI researchers really accomplished anything in the history of their project?

theyve searched one thousand stars and found nothing. Although this only tells us there is not someone broadcasting in a narrow band in our direction. There could still be civilizations around those stars.

Within 10-15 years SETI will have searched 1 million stars which is a good sample amount even though still small in galactic terms.

Will SETI find anything? well if you dont try at all you will never find anything. At least theyre doing the experiment. IF SETI didnt exist you would all be bitching that nobody was doing anything in that field to find ET.

would you prefer the likes of seth shostak to just sit in their backyard year after year hoping to see a ufo and film it?

Theres a very real chance SETI & other astronomers will find evidence of ET before the ufo community does.



[edit on 14-3-2007 by yeti101]

When modern science can't explain something it's quietly swept under the rug as to not 'rock the boat' with regard to 'established theory' and history, and it requires major guts to put the ego aside and go against the established grain and try to find the truth.

Oh please! It's not the duty of science or scientists to offer immediate explanations for new or undiscovered or not-yet-understood phenomena. When there's a "gap" in our knowledge, we don't scramble around like mice looking for the most convenient explanation, it is researched, evidence is gathered, papers are written, experiments are carried out and repeated, etc. The process is quite obviously not instantaneous.

And not rocking the boat? How many examples can one cite of true boat rocking in science? Let's start with everyone's favorite, the Heliocentric Theory, how about Evolution, and more recently Einsteinian Physics (quantum)? These are all examples of revolutions of thought in science, and that's just the last few hundred years. Now think of religion which remains largely stagnant for millenia, and you can see that science actually does work quite fast, only compared to our short lifetimes it may not seem like it.

What's the best physical evidence so far for UFOs? Maybe the burn marks, etc, where something physical is left behind. Cave paintings are evidence that early man drew cave paintings, that's about it, but they're so simple that you can see just about anything you want in them. Anyway, so what can a scientist say about some radioactive burn markings on the ground? They are not self-evidently created by aliens, in fact they prove almost nothing, it's the story that inevitably is told about the markings that makes it "special", right? And again, a story is not evidence. Farmer Joe can tell me all day long that the mark in his field was made by the UFO he saw last night, but looking at the evidence itself, one is not compelled to conclude that it was made by anything extraterrestrial, let alone all the conspiracy theories, alien politics, and other space drama that tends to follow (which again, there is no real evidence for).

So I ask again, do you really want actual scientists to take this seriously? Because under scientific scrutiny, even with some fancy burn markings, it doesn't follow that alien visitation is thus proven.