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Is It About Time We Accepted Either Racial Differences or Xenophobia?

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posted on Mar, 12 2007 @ 11:42 PM
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Government statistics show U.K Muslims are 3 times more likely to be out of work…
www.statistics.gov.uk...
They have the largest number of children (just under 4 on average)
www.statistics.gov.uk...
Oslo Muslims 6 times more likely to rape
www.brusselsjournal.com...
Younger Muslims more likely than parents to follow radical Islam
news.bbc.co.uk...
Muslims more likely to be stopped and searched by police
news.bbc.co.uk...
(One has to ask is that because being 3 times more likely to be unemployed has an effect on the amount of crime you are likely to commit?).

All large institutions are racist because there will always be a small percentage of racists within them. But as far as New Labour goes they’re quite close to being on the totalitarian side of political correctness. One only needs look at the legislation against incitement to racial hatred, how they wanted the BNP leader arrested for making a racist speech in front of a BNP audience.
Yet the buggers find (through they’re own government research) that reality itself, quite frankly spits in the face of political correctness.

The Tories are certainly PC authoritarian; they sacked Patrick Mercer for saying he knew of black people who used racism as an excuse for bad performance, and saying that a black person could have less fun made of him in the army than someone with ginger hair. politics.guardian.co.uk...

And our media: Do you know of even a local newspaper which hasn’t condemned racism at least once like say e.g. this month?

Yet Those are just the statistics of Muslims (you should black people, and particular young black men).

Some people blame racism as the big reason for the generally ***p performance of ethnic minorities in our country, or in the western world as a whole, or even in places like South Africa which has been free of apartheid since 1994.
But if that’s the case then why do British Chinese GCSE students outperform white children in just about every subject imaginable?
For example a Chinese girl is over 20% more likely to get 5 or more A to C grades than a white British girl, for Chinese boys it’s almost the same.
www.statistics.gov.uk...

Is anyone saying there isn’t much racism against Chinese people? Frankly I think they look evil; I’ve called them Chinks, and told people jokes like “Two wongs don’t make a white”
But in reality nothing could be further from the truth, as at least statistically they’re superior to us in just about any area where anyone bothers to racially monitor performance in anything (accept perhaps some dumb sports).

Look at the last government link and you’ll see Indians come second, whilst in accordance with “myths” Black Caribbean males are by far the worst (only 28% get 5 A to C grades whilst with white British boys its 48%) (still not good as Chinese boys 70%).
Funny how the Indians and Chinese not over come the alleged effect(s) of racism to equal us, but actually excel us by as much as we excel Caribbean blacks.
Or is it?

Culture is one explanation for the Chinese superior performance but it might not be the only factor at work as there is another: Eugenics.
Eugenics has many forms but primarily it’s about asking whether evolution has stopped, or rather what direction is it moving in? But it also studies racial differences in intelligence-performance. This is interesting because…
en.wikipedia.org...
Look at the second right hand graph and how much it shows what it defines as East Asian is above us!!!

Attempted world-wide compilations of average IQ by race generally place Ashkenazi Jews at the top, followed by East Asians, Whites, other Asians, Arabs, Blacks and Australian Aborigines.


More information on this deliberately under reported, and downplayed subject can be found at…
en.wikipedia.org... (Evolutionary)
www.cpsimoes.net... (What Mainstream Science says)
And www.sq.4mg.com... (Heavy reading)
www.psych.utoronto.ca... (Good website scientific info).

Conclusion…
According to authoritative studies on racial differences in intelligence Chinese should out perform Europeans, and blacks under perform them. Guess what? Not only is this the case with GSCE pass rates, but the GCSE results mirror all other differences predicted by scientifically conducted studies into racial differences in intelligence.

I do not support racial discrimination against the individual as there are still better ways of judging individuals than race (e.g. conversation) . I do not support white pride, firstly because the evidence is that it is actually China and India’s pride, thirdly because the concept is wickedly dysfunctional given that nothing is pure.
I.e. You can still have intelligent nice black Caribbean’s just as you can have nasty white morons; statistics are only averages, they’re will always be exceptions to the average and many of them (either way).

Questions…
1. But does the evidence mean we could be blaming ourselves, and racism from ourselves too much for the lower performance of other ethnic groups?

2. Could this, along with the denial of racial differences; be causing us to spend our resources poorly when it comes to tackling the causes of say inner city poverty?

3. Should we discriminate in favour of say Chinese immigration to fill jobs in the economy, if Muslims are 3 times more likely to be unemployed than Christians, but Chinese and Indians outperform whites bred within our own borders?

4. If it is all somehow a question of culture surely this logical entails support for Xenophobia against certain cultures?

5. What are the I.Q differences between the criminal under class (Chavs) and the population as a whole? Are the children of the criminal under class less intelligent than other economic groups who have been at the receiving end of the “brain drain” (i.e. the outstanding people who manage to escape the “Chav” class)?

A BIG QUESTION…
6. Having got ourselves a “PC authoritarian” press and (for the most part) national mindset how do we challenge it to consider the wider facts? How can this be done without instantly loosing you're job for being "a racist"? Or opening oneself to the triumphed up charge of promoting discrimination against the individual? (Something I (for one) am still firmly against, on moral grounds if nothing else).




posted on Mar, 13 2007 @ 04:59 AM
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After reading through your post, I came across this line:


Originally posted by Liberal1984
Is anyone saying there isn’t much racism against Chinese people? Frankly I think they look evil


What on earth do you mean by that?


I don't buy the whole "race X is more intelligent than race Y" argument. It smacks of what the Nazis thought, and I don't think it's true... intelligence is something which you are partly born with, and partly depends upon your upbringing in my view. I think there has to be something there to start with, but there also has to be the right environment for intelligence to develop. It's hard to say how important each factor is, and I'd argue that it's different for everyone. Certainly some people are denied chances to improve their intellect because either their race is discriminated against or they live in a nation which is very poor (see many African nations, which have mainly black populations and very little money to spend on education, hence people there don't have the same chances in life as someone in a developed country does).



posted on Mar, 15 2007 @ 05:53 PM
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What on earth do you mean by that?

Odd that you should ask!! The best way to describe why I think the Chinese look evil is to take a good hard look at their eyes, or their smile!!!
But me saying this, just goes to show there must still be a huge amount of racism against the Chinese. In fact I would be very surprised if it was much different to that experienced by Black people. For starters both don’t have white skins, both peoples may speak with foreign accents-tongues (even more likely if you’re Chinese) and both peoples are migrants who came to this country.

Yet (as the previous link to our government’s latest research shows) Chinese boys and girls outperform whites on every count by an average of 20%… www.statistics.gov.uk...

Meanwhile whites outperform the least performing group (black Caribbean’s) by another 20%.
I.e. Between black Caribbean boys and Chinese boys there is a 42% difference.
Then how do you blame that on racial discrimination?

This delivers us to the issue of either race or culture.
If culture is to blame (and I don’t disagree with you it plays a massive part) then surely certain types of Xenophobia are justified? Why should people accept British Black Caribbean culture is equal to our own, if it is the cause of so many of the negative differences between them and us? Negative differences like a 28% Caribbean male five A to C GCSE rate, compared with a 69% for Chinese males.

Equally if we want the employment prospects of white people to improve shouldn’t we be committing a bit of Xenophobia against our own culture? I.e. to simply ask what is that despite of all the racial discrimination, cultural differences, and even general relative poverty on arrival (due to things like e.g. exchange rates) that allows Chinese kids to outperform whites by over 20%.
If we can ask these questions, without fear of job lose due to the totalitarian nature of political correctness then we can actually learn something from other cultures. If we fail to admit (that pragmatic terms of prosperity-survival in the Western world) Chinese culture is better than white culture, and white culture is better than say black Caribbean culture then we will do one of two things: Enrich our own culture but not the Black one, or enrich neither culture.

Why These Questions are Still of Massive Importance…
Our laws permit “positive” racial discrimination against white people. The idea is that as white racial discrimination is to blame for academic-intelligence downfalls of employing certain ethnic minorities, racial discrimination in time will eradicate these differences, force people if you will to see that we are all equal.

This idea is one hell of an assumption because…
1. (Like I'm demonstrating) it cannot explain why Chinese people outperform white people, whilst blacks under perform. I.e. The problem with positive discrimination is that it denies cultural differences, in order to deny the existence of Xenophobia.
2. If you were a policeman working London you would see that certain ethnic minorities commit a lot more crime than the others. It doesn’t matter how you explain this, as long as you can recognise this you will be tempted to catch more criminals, save more victims, by noting this in the back of your mind when you make your enquiries.
Likewise if you live in an area full of Black males (statistically with their 28% five A to C GCSE pass rate) you may remember that there was a lot less unemployment, crime, and greater levels of high powered work when other ethnic minorities where living there.

I don’t doubt there are some very nice areas full of Black Caribbean males (statistics are like that). These areas tend to be wealthy suburbs, and of course being wealthy the people you accept to find there will generally be nicer (regardless of race, religion, or creed).
But it’s curious how many ethnic minorities get stuck in poverty; whilst others like the Indians or Chinese have higher progression rates, progression rates that often dwarf whites starting of in (better or the same) economic conditions (and whites generally, of course, don’t have to worry about the same levels of racial discrimination).

Race…
It’s also curious how the art of research into “racial differences in intelligence” predicts that Indians and Chinese (as well as Jews) will outperform whites, its curious that they do in spite of all the obstacles they face, the same obstacles which apparently (are somehow) responsible for denying the progression of other groups which haven’t progressed.

P.S Ste2652 if you really want to bolster your argument why don’t you go out and find some research showing all races are more or less equal?

I’ve tried and failed. So how peculiar that such strongly held beliefs at the core of modern day political correctness, lack support from research; let alone scientific evidence!!
Why did these beliefs (nearly always stated as fact in the press) get to be so well and widely adopted?
I wonder could there be some kind of “flawed” conspiracy behind it all?

Even so we could do with using the latest evidence to abolish that final frontier of racial discrimination against the individual which so called positive discrimination. Unless of course there is a way of having it both ways i.e. all cultures equal, all races are equal, ethnic minorities suffer from discrimination, Chinese outperform white students by 20%, whites outperform Caribbean blacks by 20%. Is there a credible logical way to have it both ways?



posted on Mar, 17 2007 @ 04:22 PM
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I also think that there is something in the differences in various performance in various subjects according to race.

Would anybody care to refute the claim that black men are the fastest runners and best boxers in the world? Or that whites seem to be comparitively outstanding at many swimming events? Or how about the fact that indo-asian men are far more susceptible to coronary heart disease than any other racial group? I have also read a study that showed the colour of ones eyes indicate a quicker or slower reaction time to events taking place rapidly.

Most ethnic chinese are far smaller than most blacks. Blacks have short curly hair when compared to the asian norm of straight black hair, compared to the Scottish ginger.

Would it be outrageous to claim that one particular race, having been separated for millenia by thousands of miles of ocean, could evolve a slightly higher intellegence than another?

Is it co-incidence that intellegent people reside in countries which have financially and socially rewarded intelligence for many hundreds of years?

And now to throw in the controversy...

If you breed two stupid people, they'll most likely not bear the next Einstein as their legacy. If you breed two strong people, you would increase the chances of strong offspring.

If the social conditions over many hundreds or thousands of years rewarded strength over intelligence, as is mostly the case of Africa compared to Europe, then you will through time encourage one trait over the other in the successful gene pool.

Is it PC to say that? I don't buy into PC. Or creationism in the form of a human-written bible.

To get back on track, social conditioning of ethnic muslim men goes way back before they arrived en-masse in the United Kingdom and so lower recorded IQ and higher instances of rape may well be traceable to the social pressures recurrent in the majority of the ethnic population over hundreds, or perhaps thousands of years.

And before I get attacked on this, I do realise that there were many great civilisations in the middle east long before the current great civilisation engineered by ethnic whites.



posted on Mar, 17 2007 @ 04:35 PM
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I've always thought that Tiger Woods is an excellent example in a case such as this. He plays the sport which arguably demands the most from all senses. Spatial awareness, athleticism, intelligence, focus, determination, timing, reaction, speed, attitude etc.

Apparently Tiger has three influences in his larger ancestry. Black, White and Asian.

Is it a co-incindence that such a mix of race, in fortunate proportion, can produce a sportsman who is so far ahead of his fellow comptitiors? I personally think it is no co-incidence.



posted on Mar, 17 2007 @ 08:54 PM
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on the topic off PC...i'm starting to think that its just a few people who make this *ahem* up, because lets face no "normal" person would ever make up some of the things that they splurt out...me i blame the centre left newspapers and town council middle managers.



posted on Mar, 18 2007 @ 11:48 PM
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There are two people who will be mad at how this topic has progressed so far…

One is Adolf Hitler; in fact I'm not sure what would annoy him more: The prospect of recognising that Jews, Chinese and Indians (are on average) slightly smarter than “us” beloved Europeans, or the fact that no one (myself included) has argued in favour of the concept of a pure race.

Physics…
Then again did you know that it is a law of physics that nothing is pure even a vacuum…
en.wikipedia.org...
physicsforums.com...
www.supraconsciousnessnetwork.org...
www.geocities.com...
It’s called Quantum Field Theory but has been measured in real life, even a vacuum at absolute zero is filled with something called virtual photons. Trillions continuously (momentarily) contaminate it with energy, the same applies to matter.

With this in mind (never mind probability theory) is it really surprising that there is no such thing as a “pure race”?
There will always be plenty of good as well as highly intelligent black Caribbean’s, Australian aboriginals or any division of the human race.

That Other Person…
Apart from the true Nazis and white supremacist we have the politically correct who believe that all races are equal. (Like the Nazis) this is usually done with emotive words, defiantly argued arguments, and last but not least a shortage of good facts. They make up for this by saying “but it is a fact that” a: “Jews are inferior” or b: “we are all equal” and they may even produce some scientifically unscientific study by some of their numerous supports.

What Else They Have In Common…
Both Hitler and the modern day politically correct aren’t exactly what you call “libertarian minded”. You can see this in the fanatical (yet simultaneously) deceptive way they make their arguments (deceptive as in terms of facts of course).
They even believe people should loose their jobs (seemingly no matter what that job may be) for sharing counteractive political beliefs. See this great picture of it in the U.K… www.telegraph.co.uk.../news/2007/01/13/nbnp13.xml
I do not support the BNP, I don’t like their attitude to racial discrimination against the individual. I also don’t like National Service (but that’s a bit of topic). However I find it laughable when people use the word “fascist” as insult to others, when they themselves believe in denying work to someone because of they’re political beliefs.
Oh and just it’s socially politically incorrect to be racist, it was just as socially politically correct to be anti-racist in Hitler’s Germany. We aren’t referring to outright political rebellion here, just holding an opinion that doesn’t conform to the states chosen norm.

I'm sure there must be more paellas between Hitler and the Politically Correct but those from the top of my head should do for now.

Originally posted by boyg2004

Or how about the fact that indo-asian men are far more susceptible to coronary heart disease than any other racial group? I have also read a study that showed the colour of ones eyes indicate a quicker or slower reaction time to events taking place rapidly.


Building on what you’re saying have you also heard that Chinese and Westerners see the world differently (physically)? It’s do with how we focus when we look at a picture (Chinese tend to focus on the background more, whilst we tend to focus on the pictures focus)….
www.newscientist.com...
news.nationalgeographic.com...
news.bbc.co.uk...
www.livescience.com...
(Not bad science sources?)

Originally posted by Boyg2004

Is it co-incidence that intellegent people reside in countries which have financially and socially rewarded intelligence for many hundreds of years?

It’s one of the reasons why what we have done to Iraq is such a moral outrage. They have had civilisation for well over 6000 years, are fairly well mixed (ancestrally genetically) and despite being Arabs are apparently (on average) more intelligent than Europeans.
This builds 100% upon what you’re saying about where there is a long history of civilisation there is a linkage with intelligence. Firstly because Iraqis ancestral diversity (particularly from less performing groups) would seem defy racial differences in intelligence, secondly because culturally Iraq is a sham. Because of this (just like Africa) they have nearly always had a history of dictators (be them “kings” like Saddam’s, muqtada al-sadr’s, or most democratically of all tribal leaders.

Positive Effects of Immigration…
Have you not noticed how great these recent European immigrants have been? They might be white, but they put many English whites to shame. For example so far so good (and despite consciously trying) I haven’t been able to catch a single Polish shoplifter even though there’s loads round our area. They did catch one (for the first time as far as I'm aware) two weeks ago down on electrical’s but he was from Bulgaria and for all I know could been one those “sewer kids” (many street children actually sleep inside street drains-pipes inside Bulgaria).
Yet before they came there umpteen numbers of predictions in our press of a “crime wave” heading our way i.e: “they’re poor so this equals crime”.
However is it really surprising that this crime wave never materialised? After all if your prepared to leave home, live in a alien land, learn (or having to learn) a foreign language, in order to earn a bit more money; doesn’t that say something about you?
As far as I'm concerned the polish people not only visibly work harder than the English people, but they are also nicer (though I'm obviously biased as my girlfriends polish).
I'm not saying racial differences will not be reflected in group of immigrants with the next; but I am saying they are surely (generally) the best of whatever people that race may have.

Civilisation Against the Brain…
Western civilisation provides vast wealth seemingly wherever it is successfully materialised, and often being “democratic” some of this wealth (in Britain’s case over 40% of all tax revenue) has been directed into the welfare state. Now obviously it’s a bad thing to be a wealthy nation without a welfare state (who wants starvation, or more people being prepared to die just to get you’re wallet?). However (moral arguments aside) the wealth fare state is probably doing more harm to the long term I.Q pool than a perpetual war (where the best tend to put their life down).

This is because both upper and middle class income groups are having fewer than 2 children on average: www.theage.com.au... meanwhile the further down the economic ladder the higher it gets (and yes certainly in the U.K there are plenty of parents who have kids so that they can pocket some of the due benefits for themselves).
I believe there are a number of ways to correct this…
1. Demand benefits only in exchange for work (baring rare but obvious exceptions)
2. Create a “benefit Debit card” so that Social Services can electronically see exactly where the money is being spent (i.e. on food for the family, or child’s cloths; not cigarettes or the pub).
3. Encourage the Middle Class and Upper Class to have more kids with tax brakes (it’s mostly their money anyway so it won’t cost anything if the government takes away a bit of money in order to give it back again if-when they have kids). As for childless or gay people it will still help maintain the long term survival of the society they themselves where born into (and if they happen to believe in reincarnation may be born into again).

Originally posted by Boyg2004

If you breed two stupid people, they'll most likely not bear the next Einstein as their legacy. If you breed two strong people, you would increase the chances of strong offspring.

This has been backed by research into identical twins living with separate parents (sometimes in totally separate economic conditions)…
www.eugenics.net... (read article: “1 human intelligence is largely hereditary”). And also…
www.molwick.com...
Further reading…
serendip.brynmawr.edu...
en.wikipedia.org...
www.molwick.com...-Gen-Study

Originally posted by antuk

on the topic off PC...i'm starting to think that its just a few people who make this *ahem* up, because lets face no "normal" person would ever make up some of the things that they splurt out...me i blame the centre left newspapers and town council middle managers.


The Jews…
I think you’ll find it’s a vast “well meaning” real life conspiracy. Well meaning because the first idea is that regardless of the differences between us it is better to focus on what unites, well meaning because it intends to avoid a repeat of the holocaust in which at least 6 Jews died.
It’s no state secret that a disproportionate number of Jews are successful. The PC explanation is to do with discrimination in the 14th century which by barring Jews from owning land encouraged them to go into the banking industry.
All perfectly true, accept I know 3 Jews and none of them (to my knowledge) has ever been involved in banking; yet they all come from middle class plus families. Then there’s the non-banking industries which have zilch to do with banking and here Jews are also successful.
Frankly since they are predicted (by almost all modern research) into racial differences in intelligence to be smarter than Europeans on average, I find it no surprise they seem more successful than Europeans average (as well as other ethnic minority groups). Frankly they (like the Chinese and Indians) are what Hitler might call a “superior race” (only he wouldn’t as previously explained his thoughts about race are strongly counter to the evidence).
And is that a bad thing? What difference does it make if an intelligent person comes from a Saxons womb or a Jews or an Indians? At the end of the day we want intelligent people in our society right? (Or would the latest neo-Nazis start arguing it is in the working classes interests if we start shooting all the middle and upper class smart-intellectuals?
At the end of the day we can breed with them, and if we do, then we reap the rewards (whatever they may be). And if we don’t it’s not like presence of intelligent Jews is somehow reducing the numbers of intelligent whites (though that’s the sort of aspiration Nazi type minds anywhere would have us achieve).

The Joke…
However the Jewish people’s success also seems to stem to the mass media. Now here they’re influence might be slightly artificial as Israel’s government is alleged by numerous sources to encourage this.
Either way the Jewish people (as a generalisation) seem to hold a lot of influence over the mass idea, again no bad thing (especially if this influence isn’t artificial). And even then the state of Israel as a influence, especially from its current location isn’t that bad a thing (or at least it wouldn’t be in my opinion if it was better managed).
Anyway: quite naturally you can expect far more Jewish to be anti racist than pro racist. It doesn’t take an Einstein to work this out after the Holocaust. However I think this is a bit of bad joke as in today’s modern society, especially with all their influence the Jews should be exploiting the fact they are more intelligent (as an average).
Firstly: because we need intelligent people, and that argument can (unlike pre-Hitler’s Germany) be powerfully made in the press.
Secondly: because it would justify the expansion of Israel in the right direction (maybe it’s existence if the Jews outperform the Palestinians (I'm not sure).

Thirdly: Acknowledging the Truth Can Destroy Old Racism…
Currently there will always be racial discrimination unfairly directed against the individual because of the colour of their skin, or in Jews cases because of the shape of their bodies.
Given the current state of society plus the media, racism (baring some miracle) is surely unlikely to fall much below where it currently is. Such a miracle (in form of the “truth”) could be on the way (if those able to influence the media decided upon it). Because there must be many (maybe even the majority of racists?) who are only racist because they believe-realise the current state of political correctness is bull.
You can realise this just by making everyday observations, for example a long-serving policeman is likely to realise there’s a disproportionate amount of crime committed by ethnic minorities; now he may put this down to cultural reasons, or he like his neighbour may put it down racial supremacy. And once you accept that political correctness is a pile of rubbish, then you become open to a whole host of other ideas. Suddenly things like what Hitler was saying, the Klu-Klux Clan ect don’t seem so crazy after all (it happened to me exactly like this between 12 and 14).

Also speaking from personal experience it’s like when I first tried cannabis (after getting drunk) then researched, then realised it was “harmless” was also the closest time I’ve ever been to trying harder drugs (because my illusions had just been shattered I could have jumped to the other extreme by dumping the truth too).

Long Term…
Fourthly: Because if one-day we to firmly accept the notion of racial differences of intelligence, and encourage the population growth of the middle class, then perhaps in the name of mutual economic self interest we could democratically gain the consent of the majority population to encourage certain races. This would have to be done (in a highly libertarian way) i.e. I do not mean putting a gun to someone’s head and saying “breed!” (no one wants to live like that). But if in the name of “mutual economic self-interest” we give extra e.g. education subsidies to certain groups children at an earlier stage then no one on the receiving end will complain, and if it really is in economic self interest then the few from the majority population really will be nothing more than a fanatical minority truly (i.e. in reality) (probably also provably) in conflict with the interests of the majority.

Conclusion…
It’s high time we stop denying the truth because the truth doesn’t go away, because things like positive discrimination will be harming the economy because they are based in fantasy, what they really do is direct money away from where it could better help the ethnic minorities.
It’s also high time the Jews and politically correct stop fearing another Holocaust from a second Hitler, true worth watching out for (and no question there with regards to the consequences of our foreign policy failures in the Middle East) (like preventing mutual destruction fearing Saddam from conquering crazy Iran, by selling arms to both sides, particularly Iran).
But what the modern day Nazis may demand in a world open to the truth about racial differences in intelligence seems just as crazy, if not more so than it does now. With the facts in perspective I believe it will be harder for them to recruit. Meanwhile there are numerous advantages that would mutually benefit the majority population, the Indians, the Jews and all the intelligent races, as well those segments within them that do well most. All we have to do is allow-persuade the media to reveal it, then let politics take advantage of it. We are living in a different world to the different past (for a start the race science is actually fact, and the approach should actually be libertarian and democratic) therefore the dangers of the past do not apply like they did then; but they will do (one day in the distant future) if we will not deal with the truth now. And even if that never happened we are still putting everyone (including ethnic minorities) with our policies, doomed to be incorrect as long as they are based on a denial of reality.

Wow; what an essay?

[edit on 090705 by Liberal1984]



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