Gen. Pace Calls Homosexuality 'Immoral'

Originally posted by biggie smalls
I think morality has already gone out the window in the military people...

What happened in let's see...Rape of Vietnam because of their different race?

Destruction of Iraq through hatred of the Muslim religion, see Abu Gahrib or however you spell it.

Do you honestly think the military has any credibility after how many thousands (maybe millions) of civilians they have MURDERED in cold blood? I will never again support our troops the way most of them behave. I still have love for the people, but the military itself can go F*** itself.

biggie out

yay! the faux patriots show their true colors! you know, the "I support the troops by protesting them and spitting on them when they return home" crowd.

Military men and women are fighters! they are trained to kill people! dont like it? dont join.

You need to get your facts straight about vietnam, we werent there because they were asians, we were there because we were trying to stop the advance of communism in southeast asia. We were defending one group of asians (south vietnamese) against another group that were communists (NVA and viet-cong).

What the hell are they teaching in schools now a days?

Originally posted by XphilesPhan

Originally posted by biggie smalls
I think morality has already gone out the window in the military people...

What happened in let's see...Rape of Vietnam because of their different race?

Destruction of Iraq through hatred of the Muslim religion, see Abu Gahrib or however you spell it.

Do you honestly think the military has any credibility after how many thousands (maybe millions) of civilians they have MURDERED in cold blood? I will never again support our troops the way most of them behave. I still have love for the people, but the military itself can go F*** itself.

biggie out

yay! the faux patriots show their true colors! you know, the "I support the troops by protesting them and spitting on them when they return home" crowd.

Military men and women are fighters! they are trained to kill people! dont like it? dont join.

You need to get your facts straight about vietnam, we werent there because they were asians, we were there because we were trying to stop the advance of communism in southeast asia. We were defending one group of asians (south vietnamese) against another group that were communists (NVA and viet-cong).

What the hell are they teaching in schools now a days?

Took the words right out of my mouth - or the keypresses right off my keyboard.

WD !

Back when I was in the Navy they still didn't allow women on ships. As I was nearing my discharge date I remember all the talk of integration and the uproar that followed.

Today there are only a few who disagree with that change and, by and large, the Navy has adjusted. The pool of enlistees has nearly doubled.

It is no different with gays. Homosexuality has been around as long as our species and has always been found in all segments of society - including the military. Clinton's "Don't ask don't tell" policy merely recognized that fact and served as another small step in this evolution of integration.

There will come a time when dinosaurs like General Pace will go away and his replacements can do what we pay them to: Train, lead, and defend our country, rather than waste time and energy enforcing his puritannical views of morality on a military that, like our nation, is naturally diverse.

Gen Pace is 110% correct. Homosexuality is deviant behavior and of course is decidedly immoral. What else would you call a behavior that has been Taboo in almost ever country and culture in the world throughout history? It took courage for the general to tell it like it is regarding this subject. The military has enough problems already than to create more by advocating homosexuals in the military. Everyone and his brother who has ever served in the military knows that homos and lesbos are already in the military in numbers. The 'don't ask and don't tell' scenario that is presently used by the military is sufficient to maintain esprite de corps and professionalism. If the gov't allows deviants to openly join the military you will have MASS CHAOS within the services. As a past army active duty and Vietnam veteran I would like to say that young men and women do NOT need to be living with people whom most of them detest. These young people are in a war at this time and do not need the further agravation and anxiety that having perverts openly living amongst them. When i was in the army we had numerous homos who were tossed out by the troops after they were caught doing what comes natural to them, being perverts and deviants. Need i go on? Of course not. In closing no homos or lesbos openly in the service. If they go in they do what they have been doing for millenium, go undercover, deeply in the closet where straights of all countries expect them to stay.

a gay soilder is just the same as a straight one, i bet theres some gay people in SAS, Delta and other famous units

To be perfectly honest, I really don't give a crap what someone's sexual preference is in the military, as long as they can do their job.

A common stereotype is that gay people are more promiscuous than straight people, so people assume that would be a distraction to them in the military. Using that logic then no one but asexuals should be allowed into the military, you know?

I'm asexual, by the way, I'm just giving my opinion.

You know? Damn anyone who demands that Gen. Pace should apologize for his comments.

Hell, I'll go as far as endorsing him for the 2008 presidential election.

Originally posted by guadalupejoe
Need i go on?

Probably not, unless you intend to apologize to the roughly 65,000 men and women on active duty you called "perverts, lesbos, homos, and deviants."

As a veteran of the US Navy Submarine force (CPO/NAV/SS) I must concur with Guadalupe Joe's sentiment that the closet is the place for any homosexual members of the military. Your sexual preference (or immoral choice depending on you views) has no place in the service.

The submarine force is all male and will continue to so be in the future. This is not due to prejudice towards women, but for mental integrity of each boats operating crew. The conditions are harsh and dangerous, and not conducive to anything approaching romantic or physical involvement. The integrity of the crew is paramount to the missions objective, nothing must create an environment not conducive to success.

That being said, an openly gay male surrounded and confined with heterosexual males (median age 22) that have been raised in diverse environments with widely differing social and spiritual views would jeopordize the operating norms severely. It is an unknown variable that could have serious repercussions on everyones life.

The submarine force is all volunteer and requires considerable apptitude, testing and background investigation to qualify and achieve this rating. The surface Navy is full of applicants that have washed out in this process. If a man decides to subject his life and future to this scrutiny, then he accepts the consequences of his actions.

When choosing the military he agrees and swears to live by the U.C.M.J. and obey orders. That is what military life is about; serve, protect and defend. All other aspects of his life are then subjective to the oath he has sworn. If he wants to flout these rules, or contravene orders, than the military is not for him.

So are there gay men serving in this branch of the U.S. Military?
Of course.

Are they out and openly gay?
No.

I know because I was one of them. My sexuality had nothing to do with my chosen vocation and I exercised the self-control to accomplish the missions and serve with distinction. That is the task I undertook when I swore an oath before God. I chose the military, so hence had to abide by its rules. That is how order and esprit de corps are achieved. If a gay man is not willing to live by the parameters that he himself placed him under, than the military is not for him...period.

-Run silent, run deep- USNSS

[edit on 13-3-2007 by USNStang]

USNStang-

BRAVO ZULU

I wish the rest of the posts in this thread, including my own, was as articulate and to-the-point as yours.

Damn good stuff, even if you are a Bubblehead.

Skimmer Pyros

According to the military anal or oral sex between a man and a wife is immoral, but I don't hear Pace crying about that!

Article 125—Sodomy

Text.

“(a) Any person subject to this chapter who engages in unnatural carnal copulation with another person of the same or opposite sex or with an animal is guilty of sodomy. Penetration, however slight, is sufficient
to complete the offense.

(b) Any person found guilty of sodomy shall by punished as a court-martial may direct.”

Elements.

(1) That the accused engaged in unnatural carnal copulation with a certain other person or with an animal. (Note: Add either or both of the following elements, if applicable)

(2) That the act was done with a child under the age of 16.

(3) That the act was done by force and without the consent of the other person.

Explanation.

It is unnatural carnal copulation for a person to take into that person’s mouth or anus the sexual organ of another person or of an animal; or to place that person’s sexual organ in the mouth or anus of another person or of an animal; or to have carnal copulation in any opening of the body, except the sexual parts, with another person; or to have carnal copulation with an animal.
about.com

EDIT: There are gay people in every unit. I was in the Army for six years, in Iraq at the beginning of the invasion, and it has been my experience that most mature adults really don't care if people are gay or not. It's usually the closet gays who hate themselves that raise such a big stink.

Women and blacks had to put up with this stuff when they tried to serve, equality in the USA moves at a slow pace..

[edit on 13-3-2007 by curme]

It's simple really...

In the military it has always been traditional to keep the men and woman's living spaces separate, as to avoid any relationship issues that will effect any soldiers efforts on the job. Well, that same thing can happen when two homo's are bunking together. Or two lezbo's bunking together. They will create a relationship and it will most probably effect their jobs.

Conflicts where they are not needed.


[edit on 13-3-2007 by Connected]

Originally posted by iori_komei

Do we really want such people running our military, who are
going to discriminate against good soldiers, simply because
of there sexual preference.

What's wrong with this man voicing his opinion? Just because he's in a position of power doesn't mean he should abandon his moral views. Since when did we strive to stifle people's personal opinions regarding morals. Now if he had said "I think homosexuality is immoral, and I think homosexuals make pitiful soldiers and are less than human", then yes, he should be called on it.

BUt he didn't, he gave his opinion. It's his RIGHT to have a moral opinion about an issue, and people that don't like it, should find another country to live in. The sword cuts on both edges.

Originally posted by XphilesPhan
yay! the faux patriots show their true colors! you know, the "I support the troops by protesting them and spitting on them when they return home" crowd.

Military men and women are fighters! they are trained to kill people! dont like it? dont join.

You need to get your facts straight about vietnam, we werent there because they were asians, we were there because we were trying to stop the advance of communism in southeast asia. We were defending one group of asians (south vietnamese) against another group that were communists (NVA and viet-cong).

What the hell are they teaching in schools now a days?

Hahah....nice answer from a typical backwoods believe anything the government says even if they drop nukes on civilian ignorant conservative. Nice one guys, real educated response....

For one, you don't know me.

I was in the Marines Corps ROTC program for over a year when I realized what was really going on. I would never spit on troops as most of them are not there to fight wars, but for a paycheck. Get your facts straight buddy.

I never said I was a patriot. Patriotism does not mean you blindly believe what you are told. It means you research your facts and if something doesn't add up, you question it.

I am trained to kill people, but does that mean I go out of my way to kill civilians? Certainly not. I have seen posts by you before and would have said something to the extent that you sound like a typical Bush-ite, but decided it wasn't worth the words on paper.

I do not protest the soldiers. They have nothing to do with going to war. They don't decide who and where to fight, unless that doesn't fit into your idea of what soldiers do. I can understand why you think the way you do, I used to be just like you; close-minded and unaware of other cultures that deserve autonomy from the US corporate fascist state.

People are not crazy to want to be independent from this kind of bull.

Communism in theory is a great idea, but of course human nature doesn't allow many ideals to live properly. I myself am not a communist, but believe in inalienable rights that are in our CONSTITUTION. Why don't you go read it sometime?

Don't even get me started bud, this doesn't need to turn into a flame war.

[edit on 13-3-2007 by biggie smalls]

Maybe I shouldn't post my opinion with people who have a worldview that is so locked in.

Why can't people be open to others' opinions and respect their viewpoints.

I guess ATS has people of all ages and perspectives, but I didn't expect a so-called intelligent writer to view this way, geez.

Wake up people, the GOVERNMENT OWNS THE MILITARY!

Soldiers TAKE ORDERS FROM HIGHERS UPS, THEY DON'T THINK FOR THEMSELVES AS THIS IS THE CORE IDEA OF A MILITARY FORCE! TAKE ORDERS AND DON'T QUESTION A THING!

When I read the responses of the HomoPhobes...I just cant help but get sick. You people are so rediculous. Get with the times...too bad you werent born in the 40's you could of hung people and got away with it..you haters. Jesus, wake up!!! I hope all of you homohaters have gay children. What you gonna do then? OH...disown them I guess. Sicko's.

As a military wife during the 22 years my husband served, I saw all kind of behaviors and problems in the military living in military housing and for some years working for family services.

Why Mr. Pace here doesn’t say anything about the behavior of child molesters, rapist, spouse abusers and other less desirable human behavior that is always part of society including military ones.

Yes even in the military we do have other deviant behavior that is more immoral.

In 22 years I never saw a problem with homosexuality but just some random act of violence by fellow soldiers against other fellow soldiers because the persecution, I also was there when the don’t ask don’t tell during Clinton came around.

I saw the persecution by the military against soldiers with AIDs, yes as a society the military is no exempt.

I bet he have some problem only with homosexuality, perhaps the problem is that he is trying to hide more than what he is voicing.


[edit on 13-3-2007 by marg6043]

Originally posted by nextguyinline

There is this little commandment that says thou shall not kill. It doesn't make any exceptions.

Actually that's not exactly accurate- in the original text, the commandment was to not commit murder. There's a big difference between homicide and murder, which is unlawful homicide.

Originally posted by tator3
When I read the responses of the HomoPhobes...I just cant help but get sick. You people are so rediculous. Get with the times...too bad you werent born in the 40's you could of hung people and got away with it..you haters. Jesus, wake up!!! I hope all of you homohaters have gay children. What you gonna do then? OH...disown them I guess. Sicko's.

At least we know your sexual preference.

There is nothing wrong with homophobes. Flaming homophobes for not liking homo's is like flaming homo's for not liking homophobes. We simply dont like each other..

..Maybe its the thought of private parts being stuffed places where they have absolutely no reason to be. Scientifically, there is only one true place the male organ should go, and that is in the female for reproducing. Anything other than that is UNNATURAL.

Forgive me for being blunt.

b.t.w. My child wont be gay, he or she will be naturally attracted to the opposite sex, exactly the way God designed the human race.



[edit on 13-3-2007 by Connected]

For a practicing Christian, sexually active same sex relationships is a sin and therefore immoral. The same applies to practicing muslims.

The General is allowed to think that Homosexuals are immoral, being in the highly political rank of General he should have known better and kept his opinions to himself!

I myself believe homosexuals should be allowed to be in the army, do not be fooled for a second that all homosexuals prance around in pink tutu's and scream "HiDeeHi!"

Gay people in the British Army blend in just like everyone else does, if you know the Army then you will know it pretty much governs itself. People who make an effort to "rock the boat" or be different are quickly taught a lesson regardless of whether straight, gay, black or white. If you don't conform to a standard way of thinking you are an outcast and will have a miserable and lonely military career!

I'm not sure if the same applys to the US Army as from what I've seen US soldiers are much more egoistic.

I hate the way people seem to think that disagreeing with homosexuality automatically makes someone a homophobe.

I don't totally agree with some aspects of Homosexuality but I am not saying people aren't allowed to be Homosexual!

Gay soldiers were honoured in ancient civilisations, in fact homosexuality was heavily practised in most ancient civilisations Greeks, Romans, Egyptions etc. A Classic example in the band of thebes. According to Greek legend, the Sacred Band of Thebes was an army of 150 pairs of homosexual lovers, or a total of 300 men. It was believed that the strong bond between lovers would cause them to fight even more fiercely than an army of one's family or tribe. And that a warrior would rather die in battle than disgrace his lover. They fought valiantly and fiercely in battle for nearly thirty-three years. The Sacred Band of Thebes was defeated by Phillip of Macedon and his son, Alexander the Geat, at the battle of Chaeronea.

[edit on 13/3/07 by Jimmy1880]