Ensuring secrets are kept?

If have often wondered what occult methods are in place in secret societies in general to ensure that their members remain loyal.

And also how it is (from basically a lay perspective) how it is that generally these systems have been so incredibly effective in achieving and maintaining secrecy.........

And it occured to me that the ultimate form of occult protection (if such a scheme as i am proposing is possible) would be to employ the member's own mind to police them.

First the members would be sworn to keep certain vows then in the same ceremonies the members would be shown sufficent occult displays as to thouroughly terrify them....
Then they would be told that if they did not keep their secrets that certain occult "nasties" would befall them of the likes of what they had already witnessed.

And then it would be explained that the actual trigger for this psychic punishments would actually be their own belief/realization that they had infact violated the rules.

So that the only way to break a rule and to also avoid this psychic punnishment would be to actually fool themselves into believing they were not breaking the rules whilst at the same time actually breaking them.

Is is possible that a psychic attack can be keyed to certain thought processes and triggered to "earth" like an electric current when a certain pre programmed trigger is encountered in the mind?

How effective would this system be?
Even if it were a lie.....?
Imagine being terrified that if you yourself even believed that you somehow broke certain rules that you would be smitten by demonic powers triggered by your very thoughts....

The irony would be that this type of system banks on the weakness of the mind and the inability of most people not to think certain things in certain curcumstances.

Anybody with a good grounding in magick know about this type of thing?

Originally posted by morphonius821
If have often wondered what occult methods are in place in secret societies in general to ensure that their members remain loyal.

And also how it is (from basically a lay perspective) how it is that generally these systems have been so incredibly effective in achieving and maintaining secrecy.........

I would argue that that's not the case. I'm not aware of any "secret society" that's been able to stay secret for very long. The secret rituals of both the Masons and the Carbonari were first published only a couple of years after they were instituted. Even more ominous and criminal groups like the Mafia and KKK didn't stay very secret for long, and their rituals are in print too.

First the members would be sworn to keep certain vows then in the same ceremonies the members would be shown sufficent occult displays as to thouroughly terrify them....

That's similar to Mafia initiation, minus the occult aspect.

Then they would be told that if they did not keep their secrets that certain occult "nasties" would befall them of the likes of what they had already witnessed.

Personally, I don't think too many people would buy it. Instead of provoking fear, such a claim would only provoke laughter.

How effective would this system be?
Even if it were a lie.....?

It may be powerful, at least temporarily, if the victim actually believed it. But I don't think many would be convinced.

Well, the Kadaicha shamans of Australian Aboriginal society were able to kill tribe members who had transgressed in some extreme way by using a tool of suggestion called "pointing the bone". This involved a ritual incorporating a "magical" bone specially made for the purpose, which was pointed at the victim, and was basically a form of the Evil Eye in that the victim's belief in the powers of the shaman led to a psychosomatic breakdown of their biological systems and, eventually, death.

So, it's possible to deliver occult nasties, but it kinda depends upon the personal, deep-seated, beliefs of the subject/victim.

This kind of thing wouldn't work on someone who had been initiated into a society only months, or even years, beforehand. In the case of the Kadaicha, they had been an integral part of Aboriginal society (as "wise men" or witch doctors) for thousands of years.

Originally posted by morphonius821
If have often wondered what occult methods are in place in secret societies in general to ensure that their members remain loyal.

In most cases the main method is honor.

Imagine being terrified that if you yourself even believed that you somehow broke certain rules that you would be smitten by demonic powers triggered by your very thoughts....

Sounds like your average Christian faith. you break the rules, you go to hell.

Maybe the penalty for revealing the truth is that all those around you who hear it brand you a kook. If the truth is too far removed from what people accept as true, then there is little danger from a blabber-mouth. Cognitive dissonance will prevent people from believing you.

Generally members of these societies have a deep narcisists complex and keeping secrets feeds the ego, therefore they thrive on secretism.

Of course masons and thelemites and the sort will say this is rubbish, but when a man is attracted to secrecy it is to fulfill a wish to feel superior, in morals or otherwise.
In this case they do not need to enforce their secrecy, the members will protect it except when in the cases such as the exposures; in which case it feeds the egos of the exposures even more to expose the secrets

Originally posted by Count Germails Lovechild
Generally members of these societies have a deep narcisists complex and keeping secrets feeds the ego, therefore they thrive on secretism.

Of course masons and thelemites and the sort will say this is rubbish... *snip*

People's reasons for joining are as widely varying as the people themselves. I'm sure there are some who are attracted to the secrecy side of things, but to make sweeping statements that the members "generally" have a deep "narcisists" complex is unthinking pigeon-holing at its worst.

So, yeah... your statement is pretty much rubbish.

^^^^^^ Then give me reasons please: and remember that the "martyr complex, or desiring to selflessly give of oneself---is a component of a narrcicist complex. Desiring to be "morally upright" is classic narcissistic behavior. I do not believe what I posted to be a sweeping generalization, but utter truth.

Bwahahaha!!

So, anyone who gives to charity is exhibiting symptoms of Narcissistic Personality Disorder? That's absurd.

Beyond being unable to spell "narcissist", you apparently don't even know what it means. Pathological narcissism, and Narcissistic Personality Disorder, are characterised within a person by an extreme focus on themselves. Giving to charity doesn't fit the bill, I'm afraid, when the giving is generally anonymous, unadvertised, and unrecognised. A desire for personal moral development could be narcissistic (it depends on the motivation really), but to say that ALL instances of these are narcissistic is to damn anyone who ever tried to better themselves or make the world a better place by giving to the poor or underprivileged, whether or not they are a member of a "secret" society.

So, please... spare us the generalisations based on your obvious prejudice.

Here are some reasons why people have joined Freemasonry:

- Because of a favorable opinion of the fraternity from current members or family tradition.
- To be a part of an organisation dedicated to promoting Brotherly Love, Relief, Truth.
- To contribute, through participation, to a fraternity that causes true friendships to exist among those who might otherwise have never met.
- To join with a wide variety of similarly-minded, similarly-principled men in giving through charity.
- To grow and develop through learning.
- To help others without regard to their ethnicity, religious or political opinions, or economic condition.




[edit on 13-3-2007 by Roark]

Originally posted by Count Germails Lovechild
Desiring to be "morally upright" is classic narcissistic behavior. I do not believe what I posted to be a sweeping generalization, but utter truth.

So choosing to live by moral standards which bring harm to neither myself or others makes me narcissistic ?

If I was completely debauched I would be OK ?

Simple blackmail would be good enough.

Take a few snaps whilst the candidate demonstrates his seething energies of Lucifer.

Paradoxically, the less important a secret is, the more likely it is to remain a secret. Certain societies have remained secret because uncovering the secrets might involve a little work, and at the end of the day that little amount of work is not worth it. Big secret societies like the Masons have been uncovered because people thought their secrets were worth revealing. Other secret societies like college fraternities remain mostly secret because it it not worth it to do the work to uncover and publish their secrets.